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Racing Chat - Saturday 23rd July


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Isn't it strange, I have Pyledriver as the top in my ratings, but it's the worst backed horse according to the markets.  I really think I need to revise what I'm looking at.  image.png.861d9438bb9831d11840a94882ba9937.png

 

 

In any case, I'm backing Mishriff with my free £5 bet.  

Edited by alexcaruso808
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3.00 Ascot

I like these big 7 furlong handicaps in the straight track at Ascot ...... and I got a system !

Well, not really a system ..... but look for horses drawn high, who have won over a mile, are still young (maybe 4 or 5) and from a big yard and have course form or Kempton form ...... 

King Zain - 12/1 bet365 - won at Kempton last time out, has won over a mile, from the Charlton yard, drawn in 21

 

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5.20 Ascot - Carazon - win at 6/1 Paddy Power

was a group race 2yo last season and appears to have trained on based on seasonal debut where he was beaten 4 lengths in a similar CD handicap

three of the horses that beat him turn up again today so I'm depending on him coming on a lot for the run and needing that race  to 'blow away the cobwebs' as they say

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57 minutes ago, alexcaruso808 said:

Isn't it strange, I have Pyledriver as the top in my ratings, but it's the worst backed horse according to the markets.  I really think I need to revise what I'm looking at.  image.png.861d9438bb9831d11840a94882ba9937.png

 

 

In any case, I'm backing Mishriff with my free £5 bet.  

Reckon Pyledriver is the value myself its always underrated

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3 hours ago, The Equaliser said:

I don't like ew betting but at the prices I feel that @richard-westwood is being greedy in going for win bets at the prices.  It looks like a dark shift from the norm to me. I do wish him all the best and hope he collects on both his races

Greedy? he gave you a perfectly good reason for why he goes win only, being greedy is better than being whimpy in my book its not like he bets in 100's which is a different scenario.

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4.25 York - Fox Vardy - 5/1 - Dropping down the weights and becoming well handicapped, and trainer Ralph Beckett is in good form ( 6 wins, 7 places from 24 runners).  steps up to 2 miles for the 1st time and this son of Frankel should go very close.

4.52 Nmkt - Manettino - 4/1 - Another dropping down the weights, has dropped a stone in just 6 runs. Drops down to a class 5 from the class 4 he ran on thursday, and wouldn't be the biggest surprise to see a much better run, will surely be winning soon.

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23 hours ago, richard-westwood said:

240 york 

Gale force maya  8.6 7/1

Hyperfocus  8.2  19.5 

Aberama gold  8.2 10/1 

These 3 are a little clear of rest so at decent prices I'll try 3x 10pt wins top 3 

Gale force wins .....and because I went wins I'm guaranteed to finish +20.00 on day regardless of 3.00 result ....??

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1 minute ago, richard-westwood said:

Gale force wins .....and because I went wins I'm guaranteed to finish +20.00 on day regardless of 3.00 result ....??

I'm with you 100% EW is pitiful when you have a good day. like i have said elsewhere if you were backing large stakes maybe ew is a consideration in my book 16/1 or greater but even then i have to grit my teeth and more often than not i say sod it all or nothing.

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Can anyone remember an arc winner being available at 12/1 before in a subsequent race? yes i get the ground angle but still thats a big price by any measure last night i thought when i saw 7/1 was a big price so im putting it in the forecast with pyledriver. i'll take the loss all day long at those prices.

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On 7/22/2022 at 2:48 PM, richard-westwood said:

3.00 ascot 

Jumby  8.8  8.4 

Bless him  8.7  14.5 

Chief of chiefs  8.5 13.5 

Accidentally agent  8.0 25/1 

Air to air  7.9  7/1 

As you'd expect a very very difficult cavalry charge but top 3 are big prices on betfair so let's have a,shot at a decent payout 

Accidental agent could outrun his big price ...looks overpriced 

10pt wins top 3 rated 

2nd ...almost a bumper day ?..finished +20.00 on day ...

Edited by richard-westwood
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Following on from the ew debate if you look at King Zain (i and a few others on here backed it at 16/1) in the 3:00 ascot getting beat if you believed all the noise and commentaters and the betting you would have bet serious ew money and returned exactly the same as the win bet which was £000.00

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2 hours ago, alexcaruso808 said:

Isn't it strange, I have Pyledriver as the top in my ratings, but it's the worst backed horse according to the markets.  I really think I need to revise what I'm looking at.  image.png.861d9438bb9831d11840a94882ba9937.png

 

 

In any case, I'm backing Mishriff with my free £5 bet.  

Told yous that Pyledriver would win!  ??

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41 minutes ago, Zilzalian said:

Can anyone remember an arc winner being available at 12/1 before in a subsequent race? yes i get the ground angle but still thats a big price by any measure last night i thought when i saw 7/1 was a big price so im putting it in the forecast with pyledriver. i'll take the loss all day long at those prices.

Filled my Fookin boots only Zilzalian gives you monster  216/1 forecasts

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On 7/22/2022 at 2:48 PM, richard-westwood said:

3.00 ascot 

Jumby  8.8  8.4 

Bless him  8.7  14.5 

Chief of chiefs  8.5 13.5 

Accidentally agent  8.0 25/1 

Air to air  7.9  7/1 

As you'd expect a very very difficult cavalry charge but top 3 are big prices on betfair so let's have a,shot at a decent payout 

Accidental agent could outrun his big price ...looks overpriced 

10pt wins top 3 rated 

A small loss of under a point today with a nice 7/1 winner tipped. Nice to see the underdog win the big one.

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Hero to zero i was waiting on Power of Darkness 4:45 Ascot for 2 x  huge L15 payouts. Jockey pulled its head off, i just cant understand why they dont just let them go because pulling its head off usually reslts in plumb last like this did, how odd that it ran a screamer LTO to get 3rd in a class 3 hcap but took a walk in the betting in this race. I know, i know, im talking thru my pocket but at least if a horse is going to get beat at least give it a chance ffs.

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15 hours ago, Tedthewolf said:

2.05 york-SOUL SEEKER 14/1

2.40 york MUSIC SOCIETY 16/1

3.00 Ascot ROPEY GUEST 16/1

5.20 Ascot HURRICANE IVOR 12/1

All 4 e/w singles and a e/w L15 bog

3.00  Ascot  RHOSCOLYN 25/1 e/w bog 6places

 

Only Tedthewolf  can give 5 horses each way  and get none of them placed ?

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6 hours ago, richard-westwood said:

Gale force wins .....and because I went wins I'm guaranteed to finish +20.00 on day regardless of 3.00 result ....??

Yes. Very well done. I should have at least had half a point on Gale Force Maya because of Michael Dodds good record at the track. Got myself confused with all the racing going on today

From a punter's point of view, I feel that an each-way bet when one is backing more than one horse in a single race may appeal more because he/she can possibly collect on all three bets.  I don't know the maths, perhaps @MCLARKE has stats or @Valiant Thor.  I do remember the shocking number of permutations of getting 3 horses coming in the first 3 places in races where there are a lot of runners.  I also remember the old adage that rather than back a horse each way it is better to back two horses to win.

On a different note, since you do not seem to know which of your selections is more likely to win your chosen race it could pay to re-arrange your stakes so that you make the same amount of profit no matter which horse wins the race.  For example in the 2.40 race at York instead of having 10 points to win on each of your selections had you placed 14.03 pts on the 7/1 shot 5.76 pts on the 19.5 shot and 10.21 pts on the 10/1 shot (= 30 points) you would have made 82 points profit no matter which horse won the race.

Just a thought and only trying to help.

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5 minutes ago, The Equaliser said:

From a punter's point of view, I feel that an each-way bet when one is backing more than one horse in a single race may appeal more because he/she can possibly collect on all three bets.  I don't know the maths, perhaps @MCLARKE has stats or @Valiant Thor

No particular logic in that but plenty of logic backing each way when 7 places are available in a 21 runner race.

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8 hours ago, alexcaruso808 said:

Isn't it strange, I have Pyledriver as the top in my ratings, but it's the worst backed horse according to the markets.  I really think I need to revise what I'm looking at.  image.png.861d9438bb9831d11840a94882ba9937.png

 

 

In any case, I'm backing Mishriff with my free £5 bet.  

Twas a free bet.............................................5X25 125.00 dabs my friend the price talked you out of it. Rubbing it in ??

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25 minutes ago, The Equaliser said:

Yes. Very well done. I should have at least had half a point on Gale Force Maya because of Michael Dodds good record at the track. Got myself confused with all the racing going on today

From a punter's point of view, I feel that an each-way bet when one is backing more than one horse in a single race may appeal more because he/she can possibly collect on all three bets.  I don't know the maths, perhaps @MCLARKE has stats or @Valiant Thor.  I do remember the shocking number of permutations of getting 3 horses coming in the first 3 places in races where there are a lot of runners.  I also remember the old adage that rather than back a horse each way it is better to back two horses to win.

On a different note, since you do not seem to know which of your selections is more likely to win your chosen race it could pay to re-arrange your stakes so that you make the same amount of profit no matter which horse wins the race.  For example in the 2.40 race at York instead of having 10 points to win on each of your selections had you placed 14.03 pts on the 7/1 shot 5.76 pts on the 19.5 shot and 10.21 pts on the 10/1 shot (= 30 points) you would have made 82 points profit no matter which horse won the race.

Just a thought and only trying to help.

Can't argue with an ew bet ....the chances of 1 or 2 of my top rated placing is very probable and one of the other members follows my tips rigidly with ew bets on top 3 4 or even 5 sometimes depending on places and they got more back than me today ??....I mean its the stewards cup next Sat I think .. probably 28 30 runners so in that case an ew bet seems sensible ......the bet today was geared towards Gale force maya being the only winner the overall bet woukd make a profit and that's exactly how it played out so sometimes I'm looking at the big picture to make even a small profit if x y z win etc ....but like I said ...someone backs them ew all the time and has loads of returns so there's no wrong answer but ....sometimes I get huge wins and they get half  . ....that's the only diff ....and I like big wins lol

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56 minutes ago, The Equaliser said:

Yes. Very well done. I should have at least had half a point on Gale Force Maya because of Michael Dodds good record at the track. Got myself confused with all the racing going on today

From a punter's point of view, I feel that an each-way bet when one is backing more than one horse in a single race may appeal more because he/she can possibly collect on all three bets.  I don't know the maths, perhaps @MCLARKE has stats or @Valiant Thor.  I do remember the shocking number of permutations of getting 3 horses coming in the first 3 places in races where there are a lot of runners.  I also remember the old adage that rather than back a horse each way it is better to back two horses to win.

On a different note, since you do not seem to know which of your selections is more likely to win your chosen race it could pay to re-arrange your stakes so that you make the same amount of profit no matter which horse wins the race.  For example in the 2.40 race at York instead of having 10 points to win on each of your selections had you placed 14.03 pts on the 7/1 shot 5.76 pts on the 19.5 shot and 10.21 pts on the 10/1 shot (= 30 points) you would have made 82 points profit no matter which horse won the race.

Just a thought and only trying to help.

Actually ....I think your right to be fair ....I always keep an open mind and I know my fellow punter made more money than me today so let's,see what happened....

240 

Win   7/1 

4th  16/1 

5th  8/1 

All bets returned with sky bet 

3.00 

2nd 14/1 

7th 20/1 

Both bets returned with sky 

So instead of 1 win yiu get 1,win and 5 place bets .....so ?   ...ew betting gives you much more chance of return but you also need the extra place with sky or other because it really makes a diff .......that happens a lot where 2 or 3 will place top 5 or 6 ...so that really does seem the better strategy.... back ew with sky or most places you can get 

Today 5pt ew lets say for arguments,sake 1/4 odds ....woukd have returned approx 140 -60=  +80.00 .....can't argue with that !! 

Ew bets it is from now on 

Edited by richard-westwood
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42 minutes ago, richard-westwood said:

Actually ....I think your right to be fair ....I always keep an open mind and I know my fellow punter made more money than me today so let's,see what happened....

240 

Win   7/1 

4th  16/1 

5th  8/1 

All bets returned with sky bet 

3.00 

2nd 14/1 

7th 20/1 

Both bets returned with sky 

So instead of 1 win yiu get 1,win and 5 place bets .....so ?   ...ew betting gives you much more chance of return but you also need the extra place with sky or other because it really makes a diff .......that happens a lot where 2 or 3 will place top 5 or 6 ...so that really does seem the better strategy.... back ew with sky or most places you can get 

Today 5pt ew lets say for arguments,sake 1/4 odds ....woukd have returned approx 140 -60=  +80.00 .....can't argue with that !! 

Ew bets it is from now on 

Half a stout in the snug for you now my friend. ?? Pssst stick with your FC & TC to small stakes as well.

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