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Kin hell, i can't get away from here!!! @Torque It's good advice, so thanks. I really don't c/o that often as i mostly do Lucky 15's now. @harry_rag As i said, no problems here mate and good luck with your footie this season. (mine are ready salted with a picked egg in and a splash of Worcester sauce) @Zilzalian And as for you, you getting a nose bleed up there in the naps comp!!! Was surprised you didn't have Tazara today, won at 12-1.

@LeMale Eeeh Techno lah, seems you've got a bag on 😁 Like Raggy says, i can't remember anyone doubting you on here and you don't have to prove owt to anyone, I think your a tad upset because you had a bad August 😂😂😂. I was challenged on here by someone one day and it wound me up but the reason was the challenger couldn't pick hi own f'in nose so it was a bit rich. I just do what i do, post now and again and see it as contributing to discussion on the site. The thing with C/O is quite simple really-there is no right or wrong apart from- just make sure you know what your (not you) doing if you are a beginner, us old twats get what we deserve if we make bad judgements but i think generally if you are relatively new the the betting game the previous advice espoused is solid and as we all keep stressing it all depends on your financial circumstance at the time. £200 quid was a lot of money when my kids were young, its not as important nowadays and back then C/O was not an option anyway. The last thing i will say on C/O is this. If your a bookie your biggest fear might be the newbie pin sticker banging 4 big price horses on a small stakes lucky 15 and it coming in even limits of half a million can be reached in those circumstance so the C/O is their insurance so to speak. Anyway f'ck off and enjoy your winter break. 😂😂😂😂😂 and stop betting in August. 😉 and leave those 25 team accas alone. 😁

Agree with everything you say mate tbh , i'm also not one for doubting others and whatever's posted on this forum i always take as gospel. If you believe everything posted on here that's healthier than thinking the opposite in my view , so what if something wasn't exactly kosher nobody's died and it doesn't affect me in the slightest. As for stake differentials they mean nothing to me as everything is relative. Nice figures

Cheers Zil. That's what i'm talking about. Now if you said all that to me over a pint in a pub, gave me a slap for being stupid and mis-understanding something, the world would be a better place!!! Cheers mate, catch you in the spring.

Well he asked me what my ROI was once in reference to what i "claimed" i didn't interpret that as doubting i just thought he was being a nosey fooker 😂 or curious.

"If, as you say, your betting is profitable" is what you said. Apologies if i read too much into that. It's hard, well i find it hard, to get my point across writing like this. I'm more of a face to face guy, sitting in a pub with a pint and a bag of nuts, a bit of banter and p*ss taking, putting the world to right and having a good old argument/discussion, what ever you prefer, i miss it... Anyway, no hard feelings here Harry and sorry again if i mis-understood.

For the avoidance of doubt I can't see any evidence that anyone has questioned your honesty and I know for certain that I haven't. The only thing being discussed in this thread is differing approaches to betting, especially with regard to cash out. My belief remains punters who regularly cash out would be better off in the long run if they let the bet ride. Winning punters would win more and losing punters would lose less. That's not to try and dictate what they should do, it's just my opinion on the subject being discussed. I doubt many of us stake in the absolutely optimum way to get the best return from our selections. If we could be collectively arsed to share our "homework" and analyse one another's bet history (even I wouldn't find that fun) I'm sure all of us could be given pointers on how to get a better return, whether it be better staking or more/less use of multis. But we all have our preferences whether for practical or "comfort" reasons even if they aren't optimal based on just maths. I could definitely employ a better staking plan but I can't be bothered given the practical difficulties in getting enough on at a good enough price. You should see some of the accas and bet builders that footy punters place!

Now i've got that bee out me bonnet, the coin toss saga was trying to show (very badly as it turned out) a cash out scenario that linked a possible Lucky 31, Torques "when you cash out you are actually losing" and when you "don't cash out and it loses, you actually win", taking a lesser amount from a friend as opposed to a bookie, the fact that i'm not looking to shaft the bookies and stick it to them and i'm quite happy to be classed a loser walking away with £250 in my pocket that wasn't there 5 minutes earlier. I think you guys are saying that if i keep doing what i'm doing, i'm going to miss out on that big pay day when that last horse wins and if that's the case, fair enough and of course, that's good advise. But just to make another couple of points clear, these c/o bets i do are a rare thing, so many things have to fall in place for me to do one, maybe a dozen in my 6 months of betting, at the most maybe 16, but probably closer to 8-10. Then you can cut that in half because one of my "bankers" loses which then ruins my plan. The other point is that "loser" horse that you flagged up and yes, i was surprised i didn't get plenty of stick for that. It's very specific that last pick. It's got to be a horse that's being backed and the price is falling, but i can't work out why, hence, i had it down as a loser. Risky, because chances are it's being backed for a reason and can i get the price before it drops. Bet365 are good for not following suit as quickly as other bookies and i can normally get on with the bigger price with them. Of course this also means if it turns out to be a steamer and possibly becomes favorite, i might have to let it ride, but if one of my bankers have let me down, i could still end up getting something decent back if it actually won. I haven't done many of these bets this year because i've been trying something else and i will sometimes have a L-15/31 running along side the accas as well, like the example from earlier. I know this will still make no sense to most of you, i sometimes wonder myself. So let's leave it at that. I will say one more thing. Do you footie guys know how hard it is to get just 3 winners in the same 15/31? Getting 4 and 5 is a rare thing even for the experienced guys on here, never mind someone like me...

OK picks for today Ross 33/1 Noppert 40/1 Taylor 80/1 Edhouse 100/1 Joyce 125/1 Wattimena 125/1 Crabtree 250/1 Good luck all

Newmarket 1.30 The first of eight races covered by the ITV cameras today is this class 2 1M 2F fillies handicap. The race has an open look about it with William Haggas’s unexposed Min Huna heading the market following a 2L victory at Sandown in August. She’s unproven on soft ground and is up 8lb so is worth opposing in my opinion. One filly that is very unexposed is the Ralph Beckett trained Treasure who was a heavy ground winner at Nottingham this time last year and was only fourth, beaten 1 3/4L in the Lingfield Oaks Trial won by the now 113 rated You Got Me prior to finishing down the field in the Epsom Oaks. She may have found the ground too fast in the Golden Gates Handicap at Royal Ascot and with a 105 day break could be well treated off of 92. A market move for her would obviously be interesting. TREASURE 1 point each way @ 10/1 bet365 1/5th 1234 Ascot 1.50 Just six have declared for this listed 5F BetMGM Rous Stakes. William Haggas’s three-year-old Relief Rally ran a blinder following a 126 day break when finishing runner up, beaten 1 1/4L, to No Half Measures who is fancied to run well in the Prix de l’Abbaye at Longchamp on Sunday. With that run behind him and his ability to handle plenty of cut in the ground he can go one better under Cieran Fallon who replaces Tom Marquand whose services are needed at Longchamp this afternoon. RELIEF RALLY 1 point win @ 13/8 Betfred Newmarket 2.05 A maximum field of twenty run in this 6F Tattersalls October Auction Stakes for two-year-olds. The highest rated at the weights is the Archie Watson trained Tafreej but he’s here on the back of a 106 day absence and has yet to encounter soft ground. One horse who arrives in good form and is a winner already on good to soft is the Andrew Balding trained Brighton Boy who was last seen dropping back to this trip when winning a class 3 nursery at York last month. It’s a little bit disconcerting that he sports first time cheek pieces as he certainly didn’t do anything wrong at York. Oisin Murphy was on top last time and retains the ride and in an open enough sales race is the selection in a race in which there is very little soft ground form. BRIGHTON BOY 1 point win @ 4/1 bet365 Ascot 2.25 We have eight runners in the 1M 4F Group 3 BetMGM Cumberland Lodge Stakes with Newmarket trainer William Haggas holding a strong hand with his brace of Al Aasy and Hamish. Both have to carry 3lb penalties with preference for the latter who may have had his excuses on his last two starts and will relish any juice in the ground. Karl Burke’s Al Qareem won this race a year ago and comes here in fine form having won a listed race at Chester last time out. He’s 3lb better off for a neck beating by Hamish in the John Porter at Newbury back in the spring and maybe able to turn the tables on his old rival and go back to back in this race under Clifford Lee. AL QAREEM 1 point win @ 5/2 Ladbrokes Newmarket 2.40 Just six have declared for the feature race of the day at Headquarters in the Group 1 Virgin Bet Sun Chariot Stakes for fillies and mares. John & Thady Gosden set a poser by running both last year’s easy winner Inspiral and Nashwa who hasn’t been seen for 189 days and is overlooked here. The latter has to be a major player although she wouldn’t want the ground too soft and has the tendency to fall out of the stalls as she did last time out on France. I do feel she’s the one to beat however. David Menusier is having his best ever season and saddles his Group 3 Atalanta Stakes winner Tamfana who appreciated dropping back to a mile that day and has to be a player here. If the ground was to get even softer (unlikely with the weather forecast) then the Karl Burke trained Darnation looks massively overpriced with her form figures on soft ground reading 1111. Betfred are the only firm paying three places on this seven runner contest and if privy to their odds then it’s without doubt worth a small stakes each way wager on a horse who is only rated 8lb behind Inspiral and 4lb behind Tamfana. The main bet though has to be Inspiral who has a bit of class about her and is unbeaten on the Rowley Mile track. INSPIRAL 1 point win @ 3/1 William Hill DARNATION 1/4 point each way @ 33/1 Betfred 1/5th 123 Ascot 3.00 The 6F Group 3 John Guest Racing Benbough Stakes has attracted a field of nine and with 5lb on official ratings covering the entire field has an open look a bout it. The most interesting runner is the Owen Burrows trained Jarraaf who’s scored back to back handicaps over course and distance this summer. This is a step up in class for the lightly raced three-year-old and he also has to prove his ability to cope with softish ground. Andrew Balding’s Purosangue is a horse who will appreciate the soft ground and having finished runner up to Quinault in a listed race at York last time should be thereabouts. Also in the mix should be Ed Walker’s English Oak who has had a few excuses for a few below par runs since winning here at the Royal meeting and is now dropped in trip. A tight call but I’ll take a chance that Jarraaf will cope with the ease in the ground and as the least exposed in the field can win again with Saffie Osborne in the saddle. JARRAAF 1 point win @ 4/1 BetVictor Redcar 3.20 Twenty go for this 6F listed contest, the William Hill Two Year Old Trophy for two-year-olds. The clear best in at the weights is the Eve Johnson Houghton trained Billboard Star who has been plying his trade on his last four starts in Group 2 company, handles soft ground and is the one they all have to beat. Johnson Houghton won with a similar type in Chipotle three years ago in this race. One horse who may be a bit of value against the favourite is the Michael Dods runner Northern Ticker who although having a whopping 22lb to find with Billboard Star at these weights on official ratings is highly thought of by his shrewd handler. Paul Mulrennan rode him last time when winning at Carlisle and stated afterwards that he “he’s one of the best horses I’ve ridden for a long time”. His trainer has also said some very encouraging things about him mentioning this race as his target back in a Racing Post stable tour in August calling him “pretty useful”. He looks solid each way value with an additional place. NORTHERN TICKER 1 point each way @ 8/1 1/5th 12345 Ascot 3.35 The big handicap of the day is the BetMGM Challenge Cup run over the straight 7F for which there is a maximum field of eighteen. Ralph Beckett has his string in excellent shape and his Qirat is one for the short list having won a class 2 handicap at Goodwood last time out from Witness Stand who’s since won a listed race by 3L. He looks sure to be thereabouts and is the main pick. James Fanshawe’s course specialist Fresh arrives in good form and is another who can run well along with the 2nd and 3rd from the 7F handicap at Haydock 20 days ago in Golden Mind and Germanic. The former finished 1/2L in front of his rival that day and looks value at double the odds to run well. I’ll add him to my staking plan for this open handicap. QIRAT 1 point each way @ 6/1 bet365 1/5th 12345 GOLDEN MIND 1/2 point each way @ 14/1 bet365 1/5th 12345

Competitive fare for the National Hunt enthusiasts at both Warwick and Southwell today,where winners will be hard to find. We will do our best though and Alan King's Theonlywayiswessex is selected for the opener at Southwell(14.00). In a wide open 11 runner handicap Chase i thought the 17/2 was fair given the scope this one has over fences. The fact Harry Skelton rides at Warwick seems to have put punters off the chances of Dan Skelton's Next Left in the 14.30 here,so we will nip in smartly and nab a bit of that 3/1 offered this morning.Three pound claimer Tristan Durrell is competent enough and this one has a 50% strike rate over fences .Just over Half an hour later Special Dragon lines up for a tough looking 13 runner handicap Chase,but the 5/1 quote is tempting.Given time to freshen up for this her Chase debut,this improving sort could easily be ahead of her more experienced rivals.I was at Worcester three weeks ago when i saw Shibuya Song bolt up in the finale that day at 33/1.Such was her ease of victory that day,she could easily win the finale here (17.10).At 6/1 she looks worth a punt. I have been a member at Warwick in the past,and there are few finer sights than being on a bold jumping front runner taking on those 5 fences down the far side.Don't be fooled though,those jumps are not as tricky as is often made out and the casualty rate is quite low. The ones with form in the mares maiden at 14.23 are a pretty uninspiring bunch,so i'm willing to take a chance on 11/4 shot Jayapura with my free bet for finishing second with Alafdhal yesterday.while the Skelton's complete the days business at this venue with Gods Own Getaway -one of three runners from the stable competing. Betfred are not offering Bog on this race,so i have switched to the Betfair Exchange to take the 5.8,which is a bigger price than i was expecting.. Prices/Offers were taken from Betfred at 11.00am

Fair enough, I can see see the possibility of that coming across that way but definitely not intended. Fell between a few stools of trying to address everyone and one person in particular (and not wanting to say "ones" for fear of sounding like a ponce). Might have said "if ones betting is profitable in the long term, as you've indicated that yours is, blah blah" Never crossed my mind to doubt you and would have clearly said so if I thought someone was laying it on a bit thick (as we occasionally see with the odd "here today gone next week" type). Make it crisps and I'm on the same page!

I see it now - it's where @harry_rag says 'if, as you say' - that could be interpreted as questioning honesty but I'm certain that wasn't what was meant.

I did wonder about this - I must have missed the bit where anybody had their honesty questioned.

Result: Bob Mali 1st. Won £30 October loss to date £10

Went with koepka and lawrence for this. Dad has went Fleetwood and horschel. Did think Hatton or fitzpatrick but stuck with my two.

After the draw I’m adding Kenny 300/1 and Searle 25/1

Good luck guys, I’m on: Heta 25/1 Noppert 40/1 De Decker 70/1 Scutt 80/1 Joyce 125/1 Barry 300/1

Today I'm going with : Noppert 40/1 Scutt 80/1 Taylor 80/1 Joyce 125/1 Wattimena 150/1 De Graaf 250/1 Zonneveld 250/1

Adding top 10 prices matched on Betfair - * Brooks Koepka 3/1 * Matt Wallace 3.4/1 * Peter Uihlein 5.6/1 * Dean Burmester 6.4/1 * Thorbjorn Olesen 8/1

You are a star Ian posting the result. ⭐ Well done to Crespo on the win tonight. I saw the final hand, nice way to take it down with flopped quads (all in pre) ! The game was lucky to actually run as we set off with only 2 players. I wasn't expecting to be home in time to play at all so didn't pre-reg but then did manage to log in with just a couple of minutes to spare and only muttley was registered. It started off with just us two, followed very shortly after start by ABarSteward. Late registration is all well and good but the game won't start if no-one is in there at the off time. I'm wondering whether we need to put start time back to 8.30 (I know I often struggle to be home in time), or is it a deliberate strategy to late reg by most of you? In which case we may need to consider removing that, but then I fear we may end up with very low number of runners. Any suggestions? I know I could be partly to blame as I am regularly last minute putting the thread up and the updates, but I think we've all been playing together long enough surely to know the day and time of the game.

A lot of people are interested in rating but find the whole thing bewildering and don't know where to start ......we've discussed a few methods in the past ...some pretty advanced but I have a book I keep .....and over the years I jot down ideas or if I get sudden moments of inspiration I'll jot it down ......lots of snipits in there .....including my attempt at robbing the casino lol ....... The law of averages applies to everything including horse racing ....so one time me and my friends came up with a little system where you watch the 2/1 fields ( 3 of them) on the roulette board over say minimum 60 rolls ...preferably 90 .....overall by the law of average you'd expect a fairly even spread between the three fields so over 90 rolls you might get 33 27 30 as an example ........but like tossing a coin occasionally one field will get a massive bias so you might end up .....38 24 28 ..... Now ....nature hates misbalance..... So now you start betting the lower 2 sections 2/1 bet over the next 60 90 bets whichever you choose and 9/10 the bias will shift back to one of those two sections making you a profit .....it could be 4 PTS or 20 PTS ....usuAlly I'd cash out at 8 PTS ....so if I was betting tenner on each section I'd cash out once I got to 80 quid profit .....that could be as soon as 15 to 20 bets if the bias changed quickly ..... Only thing that put us off was we tried it on the online casinos and first time we were up 256 quid but then either someone steps in or the software picks up your doing something and suddenly you'll get freak results that really shouldn't happen ....so at first we thought it was bad luck but under a new account same thing happened ....big win then suddenly freak results ..... After a few more tests we realised the results in online casinos can and are manipulated which is very concerning because that means if you put 1000 on black the result can be manipulated to come up red so we gave up on that one but I still stand by it's merit Racing wise though ....I jotted down this following rating formula ....I haven't tested it so I don't know how good it is....it could be the best thing ever so could be a good thing for someone Take postmark and topspeed today and combine + (16- price today) So if horse was 2/1 you'd enter 14 .....if horse was 16/1 you'd enter 0 .....any horse over 16/1 you enter 0 - minus Form figure lto ....win is 1 enter 7 for 7th or worse Press = Multiply by number of places in recent form line ....so if 6 races in form line and placed twice you X2 Press = X by 100 Then divide by number of digits in form line Press = Then square root this number to get the final rating Happy hunting 😁 😁 Looks complex but fairly straight forward and looks easily transferable to a spreadsheet in short time I'd imagine .....I'd be fascinated to see if anyone has any success with it ?? Premise behind it seems sound .....base rating could be anything ....time form ......a speed rating ....anything Most winners come from first five betting so it accounts for that .. Takes in account recent form And if the horse say hasn't even placed recently it would get a crap rating so as a basis for a horse rating it seems perfectly sound

What’s happening with this run? Have you stopped because you can’t get shots on target matched anymore? There are plenty other easy 1.01 bets out there.

Every tick - or fraction of a tick - helps. Trouble is, liquidity usually makes getting a decent bet on in what is an obscure market difficult.

Won Profit +£50 Month +£10

I use fractional Kelly stakes for singles, and again in my opinion, that's the only way to go - on the assumption that you've got a good enough idea of the value you think you've got in each bet. Besides that, I flat stake and that's the next best thing, although it's not ideal the higher the odds get as utility of higher odds bets is necessarily lower due to the lower chance of winning.

I've shortlisted the below for this weekend - * Brooks Koepka win 23/1 * Matt Wallace win 43/1 * Peter Uihlein 84/1 * Dean Burmester 94/1 * Thorbjorn Olesen 149/1 Will look at top 10 options All prices Betfair Good luck on your bets this weekend!

Full normal ratings and class ratings Top 5 Bluestocking 517 497 Continuous. 508 488 Aventure. 494 487 Los Angeles. 490 490 Fantastic moon 484 483 Happy with my ante post bets on bluestocking .....continuous looks overpriced at 28/1 and aventure 16/1 also .....I'll add 5 PT wins both to finish my tag team for the arc 😁

Ok, so let me start with the serious matter. I'm a bit "old school" when it comes to the vulgar subject of money and wealth and believe it should be a private thing. I might have, on occasions, got a little excited with a nap comp winner (or something else) and boasted about it in a post, i can't really remember if i have or not, but i'm fairly sure i've never revealed the amount i won. Only within the last 18 months have i posted the amount that i bet with (small stakes) and printed bet slips with stakes and winnings or losses. (this came about because of the Lucky 15 big meeting comps) I will admit, that it made me a little uncomfortable revealing such details at first, but i feel a lot safer now that i'm among friends and on a trusted site. I have an i-phone which i rarely use and even then, only for texts and calls. I am on NO social media platforms and if you googled my name you would assume that i didn't exist, and that's just how i like it. My profit/loss is my business and i don't like having my honesty questioned because i don't like to show off my winnings. Yes i know, you only have to go back a few posts where i have posted my winnings on a Lucky 15, but that was to do with what i was discussing and if i had just typed it manually i'm sure there would have been even more doubters. I have already mentioned that i don't bet to get rich, it's just a sideline to my horse racing hobby. It is also not like me to get bothered whether people believe me or not, i know i am an honest man and i don't give a sh*t what people think of me and although this is by no means 100% proof, it's all i'm willing to offer, so i am going to try and copy and post my monthly tips from another competition that i enter that shows some facts and figures, but i will admit, 10% of them were probably too short for me to have a single bet on and there would have been some bets i had just before a race that are not included in these figures (some won, some lost) but i would have placed a real bet on all others. These are all singles to win or ew, no L-15's, doubles, trebles etc.

Salisbury 15.15 £20 Bob Mali @6/4 bet365

4-20 salis grays inn 16/1 hills

1940 NEW LETS GO HUGO 4/1 BET365

Chelmsford: 6.30 Stanage 2/1 @ Bet365 please Thanks

1530 Warwick Long Draw 3/1 betvictor

Napoli odds 1.40

I'm not sure if you guys have seen Zhukayev play. Kazak player has one of the biggest serves on tour if not ever. Pinpoint accuracy down the T with alot of speed and spin. I don't think his ground has anything decent going but it's sort of like a Karlovic style.. Just hold, and maybe a few chances can develop. I"m not a huge fan of Safiullin, and I think he is vulnerable. I am considering a bet on him because the odds are nice and juicy. Something similar to when Roman got dropped by Eubanks @Winston-Salem. That is a another fair comparison aside from the one hand backhand and slice of Eubanks. Eubanks has better baseline shots than this guy, but Zhuk serve is better imo without any question. I watched alot of his last match vs Billy Harris.. Harris was playing pretty well, and he still managed to come through.

@Zilzalian takes over at the top with 16/1 Catterick winner Al Hussar

Bet 12. Lay Bologna to beat Liverpool @ 23.00

The one thing i totally ignore is the official going descriptions in France they are an absolute fiction. Solution? - just look at all the results from the Saturday meeting and make a judgement based on those, it wont change much overnight.

213 catt al hussar 12/1 PP

Foreseeable Future 1.38 Catterick 10/1 bet365

10 points single home 1. Arsenal @ 1.18

over 2.5 double Wolfsburg - Stuttgart @1.53 Hoffenheim - Werder @1.44 44 pts please

Port Vale v Swindon 1 @ 1.91 Rangers v Hibs 1 @ 1.36 Real Betis v Espanyol 1 @ 1.73 £20 Treble

Arsenal v Leicester 1 @ 1.18. Napoli v Monza 1 @ 1.34. Monaco v Montpellier 1 @ 1.33. £20 Treble.

Arsenal vs Leicester (1) @ 1.18 35pts single

Bolton ( 2 ) 1.85 Celtic ( 2 ) 1.20 £20 win double 👍

Dirty Leeds (1) 1.57 Blackpool (1) 1.53 Walsall (1) 1.85 £11.05 treble please