Racing Chat Thread

[RIO2014]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

You can win on horse racing. And I don't use the exchanges much. All comes down to not betting too much' date=' spreading your bets across many firms, and of course finding the winners. I don't think it is an accurate comment to say "You can't win", simply because that is your own story. Racing has always been corrupt, anything with big money involved is always corrupt. But I don't look at racing the same way you and Rio do, I look for the positives, ye look for the negatives.[/quote'] You are 100% correct, you can win by betting small stakes and spreading around, but you have to stay under the radar, if you dont, they will have you gone. As i said the other day, me walking into umpteen shops with £80 win on a 7/4-13/8, there not batting an eye lid..Now if i was foolish enough to walk in with £1200, they may have taken it..or may have just took part, but im putting myself up in the spotlight, why would anyone want to do that?, and if you come to collect, you will be marked for definate. So i agree even if you are having £500 plus on a horse, do 5 shops, in the long run, you will benefit. BTW nice 16/1 winner today.

[BillyHills]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

Its like whatever I say some times , members will respond with the opposite.

Have to admit i have thought that about you Erhaab, i have you down as a minority voter so you can have a good moan about those in power whoever they are. Is it the Green Party or an Independent group??:p I know people will moan about racing til the cows come home because the simple plain fact is that anything that means risking money with humans involved it will always be open to question. What makes me sad about this place just lately is all the negativity surrounding our great past-time and it makes me wonder whats the point on debating such issues when a certain few are convinced the world is against them. We have had some good discussions lately with people helping each other and while we should be able to talk about anything the the theme recently disappoints me. The problem is a massive one obviously, i mean firstly we have to trawl through the masses of drab racing we get from Monday to Thursday most weeks to try and find a suitable race that doesnt involve anyone likely to be trying to con us. Then we have to try and open several betting accounts just to have a wager and then re-open them in grandmas name when they get closed for having a score on the nag the night before at a reasonable price. Then we have to hope it or others dont get pulled out so we have a massive rule 4 deduction which loses any value we may have secured in the first place. Next follows the race, our jockey has to be 100% reliable or else he will miss the break, get boxed in or indeed forget to take the hood off! Thats assuming our trainer is not running him for a handicap mark later in the week. On turf we have to hope the Clerk of the course is honest enough to give us a correct reading on his going stick and not say its good when its really soft! Above all else we have to beware of horses actually trying to win, now that does cock things up when a complete no hoper on all available form mugs us on the line! Must be a corrupt result surely, that couldnt have won i here them cry! Jockey on the fav didnt want to win etc......Nothing positive, but reading some posts on here would make you think this happens all the time. We are lucky in this country compared to some, we have loads of sports we can bet on each day, you take your pick, Tennis, Golf, Football, Darts, Snooker, Rugby, Cricket and dont forget Horse Racing. I'm amazed that some people out of all that lot seem to choose the latter when it has by far the most obstacles in its way, obviously!

[RIO2014]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Just want to put this about Eddie Ahearn, which was aired on ATR about 8-9 years ago.(i have others but they are hearsay, and cant be coroborated) Erik Penser was a owner with horses at G.Butler, but this was to the detriment of other owners, in other words they felt there horses(even if they were better than some of pensers), wernt getting the same effort put into them, G.Butler lost alot of owners, thru this association. Penser has since(except for 1 or 2) employed a ex trotting trainer, to become basically his private trainer a few years ago. Anyhow this owner(cant remember his name), had 6 horses with Butler, and had moved them on...to other trainers So ATR(or whatever they were called then) used to have a lunchtime phone in, on which EA was the guest, so this owner rings up, and was polite but a little upset at the treatment he and his horses got off Butler and EA,,,and all EA done was try to be little this guy, which was very ugly to see..But in the end they cut him off, and went to a break. Come back and eveything seemed to have settled down,,and the presenter(may have been J.HUNT) says to EA, "it must be difficult to try and keep every owner happy" fair question.... So EA comes back on live telly and says.."dont worry about him, he's done his doe",followed by a hearty laugh from EA..(he was the only one laughing) there was a uncomfortable silence,,for a second or two, and the presenter went onto the NR's for the day. At the time I thought(and nothing has ever changed my mind from this guy) If thats what he thinks of owners, who he was supposed to represent in a working capacity, what does he think of, the stable lads, the horses, the punters, In fact anyone in the sport that was and has been since so kind to him. The revelations since come as no surprise to me, as this is one guy who thinks of no one but himself, and for all the charges against him in this thread, I hope they are proved, and he is back home, kicking his heels going skint. A most unpleasent man IMO.

[RIO2014]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

Have to admit i have thought that about you Erhaab, i have you down as a minority voter so you can have a good moan about those in power whoever they are. Is it the Green Party or an Independent group??:p I know people will moan about racing til the cows come home because the simple plain fact is that anything that means risking money with humans involved it will always be open to question. What makes me sad about this place just lately is all the negativity surrounding our great past-time and it makes me wonder whats the point on debating such issues when a certain few are convinced the world is against them. We have had some good discussions lately with people helping each other and while we should be able to talk about anything the the theme recently disappoints me. The problem is a massive one obviously, i mean firstly we have to trawl through the masses of drab racing we get from Monday to Thursday most weeks to try and find a suitable race that doesnt involve anyone likely to be trying to con us. Then we have to try and open several betting accounts just to have a wager and then re-open them in grandmas name when they get closed for having a score on the nag the night before at a reasonable price. Then we have to hope it or others dont get pulled out so we have a massive rule 4 deduction which loses any value we may have secured in the first place. Next follows the race, our jockey has to be 100% reliable or else he will miss the break, get boxed in or indeed forget to take the hood off! Thats assuming our trainer is not running him for a handicap mark later in the week. On turf we have to hope the Clerk of the course is honest enough to give us a correct reading on his going stick and not say its good when its really soft! Above all else we have to beware of horses actually trying to win, now that does cock things up when a complete no hoper on all available form mugs us on the line! Must be a corrupt result surely, that couldnt have won i here them cry! Jockey on the fav didnt want to win etc......Nothing positive, but reading some posts on here would make you think this happens all the time. We are lucky in this country compared to some, we have loads of sports we can bet on each day, you take your pick, Tennis, Golf, Football, Darts, Snooker, Rugby, Cricket and dont forget Horse Racing. I'm amazed that some people out of all that lot seem to choose the latter when it has by far the most obstacles in its way, obviously!

Your last paragraph, sums it up really... Racing was and always (apart from a game of cards in a back street pub) will be the oldest betting sport, and we are now in a privaledged situation of seeing every horse race from a multitude of angles, just as we see every other sport(which in most part is professionaly run to the highest order, and is seen as being ruthless to those who take the pi$$). And its no wonder the sport is dying on its knees, as it does not help itself, because new blood dont want to get into something that they see not 100% fair. When we were 17 trying to put a bet on... out of 10, 4/10 of the same 17 yolds want to put a footie coupon on, 5 want to play the evil FOBT and 1 wants to bet on horses. The bookies will be in deep water were the racing is concerned when our generation passes on. Racing is a proffesional sport(in this country), but IMO, it falls way behind the standards set by other proffesional sports(in this country) From stewards to jockeys we see rules bent, to the extent of almost snapping. I give you Honk Kong, for 1 example, say you have a horse that has been a reguler hold up horse, but if suddenly you want to be up with the pace or make the running, you as a trainer have to declare that in the press/racecard, because if you dont, you will receive a heavy fine for not being forthcoming with your instructions to the public, we have to second guess here, The inteference rule again IMO in the UK is a joke. Racing is a dying sport in this country, and it not because of this thread or others imo, its because its been rotting thru internal greed, from all parts of the industry. FRANKEL was a great lift for the sport in the last 2 years, unfortunately, not many Frankels come along to give the sport a much needed boost. I love watching great spectacles like the derby, national, arc, cheltenham, Goodwood, Ascot, and been to all, and a finer day out you will struggle to have...Alas these days can be compressed in a month..Its the other 11 the sport has to revive and promote, Alas that will never happen for Hereford n Folkestone..and IMO wont be the last to bite the dust in the next few years. GL

[BillyHills]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Totally agree that the % of punters betting on horses has dropped through the floor, when i first worked in the industry (mid 80's) it was responsible for about 70% of turnover in the high street, with football second and the rest nowhere. When i left it had dropped to 30%, with sports betting a close second followed by numbers betting. When the machines landed everything changed overnight, in the first 6 months of them being installed two machines made a £25k clear profit, i see they can have more now so god knows how much they are making. The trouble was the same guys only had the same money in their pockets which meant less and less left for other things like putting bets on would you believe, that was the time for me to leave stage right, also the internet played its part. Another subject but the fall in betting turnover does have an effect on the liabilities a firm can have these days, years ago they could take a proper bet because the field money was so strong, but people dont see that side of it. I know people today who still work there and the figures are frightening, i worry for the Levy as its only profit on racing that they receive not the roulette machines, this means less money in the pot to improve racing and prize money and more courses will shut in the next ten years for sure. I'm passionate about the game and thats why i dont like the slurs its receives, i try and tell people its worth going to see, its a great day out, but all you here about is the bad side and like you say we dont have too many Frankels to sell to the public very often. Anyway, tomorrows another day:ok

[NeilM]

I worry for the Levy as well (I'm sure most of us do). Although I'm against the reasons behind it, the increasingly likely tax changes proposed for 2014/15 could benefit it, at least in the short to medium term because it will be much clearer exactly how much each bookie is making from racing.

[ExpectTheUnexpected]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread In our shops, don't want to say who, half of our over the counter trade is from horses. My understanding is that's pretty constant across the UK. I wonder if the big positive of venues closing could turn out to be an increased dividend of the pot for remaining courses. Perhaps to save the ship, it's important to lose the dead weight. The only thing that will stop racing being an active player in British sporting life, is if we get too caught up trying to chase lost causes like Folkestone, where it makes better commercial sense to target elsewhere. Gambling has proved itself to be recession proof, to protect its future and avoid such things like gambling tax coming back, its time to let the people treat it like sport, but run it like the multimillion pound industry it is. At times, courses look like they're being run by a youth club or One Show style "heart in the right place but not much use" types. Harsh as it may be, such places must choose change, be changed, or step aside. As my old teachers used to say, "you're holding back the class"

[BillyHills]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Figures upto 2011 show only 25% of turnover is on horse racing, it may be 50% of over the counter business but that doesnt tell half the story;

[mowgli77]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Am I right in thinking they used to be allowed 2 fruit machines and 2 FOBT machines? It used to be like that in my bookies but now it's just 4 FOBT's as they rake in so much more cash than a fruit machine. I've seen fellas shovelling £20 notes into them for fun. I'd like to say these are the type that wouldn't be allowed into the casino but in our local Gala they let any old tramp in, tracksuit or not. Crowds around the FOBT with not much interest in the horses and dogs. Although there are some characters in there I don't really miss it and prefer to bet online from the warmth and comfort of my own home rather than the smelly, piss infested shops that are like a scene from One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest.

[RIO2014]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread piss infested shops that are like a scene from One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest. LOL...:rollin

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread I see the morning line were promoting a book today - Recipes from Jockeys. I wonder if L.Dettori uses lots of Icing sugar in his recipe.

[mowgli77]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

piss infested shops that are like a scene from One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest. LOL...:rollin

Come to my local Betfred to see for yourself. :loon

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

Come to my local Betfred to see for yourself. :loon

Two punters in one of my local betting shops stand out a mile, one fella just mumbles all the time and in all the years of me seeing him all i can make out is...........Fecking AP, Fecking B@stard Trap 2, and fecking 5/2 B@stard. The other fella just about takes a fit, he starts off just sitting in a chair, if his selection has a chance he starts to slide over to the one side of the chair and in a shaking motion like he's having a fit, when the race is over he returns back to where he was, upright in the chair and has a wee sly look around. In all the bookmakers i've been in around the UK i've never seen anything like it, both are full on Grade A' windae lickers.

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Huntingdon card washed away http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/article/465/8353749/huntingdon-card-washed-away

[BillyHills]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Once again the joke that is a "Pertemps Qualifier" has risen its ugly head today. (2.15 Wincanton) 12 NR's already from a field of 21, For those who dont know, you only have to have been declared for a pertemps qualifier in order to run at the final at Cheltenham in March, yet time after time they get big entries only for trainers to pull them out on race day, especially if the ground has changed in any way as they dont get fined then. Mr Pipe is the biggest culprit, he often enters 6 or 7 in these races and runs a couple. You cant blame them entirely as they are not breaking any rules but surely its about time the conditions of the race are changed. I saw this race and was going to cover it but held off as i feared the worst and now the race is so different to what it looked like 24hrs ago.

[mowgli77]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

Once again the joke that is a "Pertemps Qualifier" has risen its ugly head today. (2.15 Wincanton) 12 NR's already from a field of 21, For those who dont know, you only have to have been declared for a pertemps qualifier in order to run at the final at Cheltenham in March, yet time after time they get big entries only for trainers to pull them out on race day, especially if the ground has changed in any way as they dont get fined then. Mr Pipe is the biggest culprit, he often enters 6 or 7 in these races and runs a couple. You cant blame them entirely as they are not breaking any rules but surely its about time the conditions of the race are changed. I saw this race and was going to cover it but held off as i feared the worst and now the race is so different to what it looked like 24hrs ago.

I wasn't aware of that, bit of a nightmare if you are pricing a race up based on x amount of runners and then loads get pulled out. I was looking at Ballyoliver but I'm not touching it at 9-4, would rather just watch the race later on than get involved. Junior was entered here and Kempton but it has been supplemented for that so was never going to run at Wetherby, wonder if that affected rule 4's as it was about 9-2 and then Helpston came out too. 12 NR's in the race you mention is a bit much, how long have conditions been like this?

[BillyHills]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Long as i can remember Phil, i remember one such race at Warwick some years ago and the weather was that bad it was almost certain to be called off, i mean 4 inch of snow on the track. The race had so many entries it was untrue as when a race is abandoned they all get qualified for the final without leaving home! NR so far in the 215;

Non-Runners: 12/ 9 Water Garden at 09:28 Captain Sunshine at 09:02 The Package at 09:28 Goulanes at 09:28 Holywell at 09:28 First Fandango at 10:32 Palace Jester at 09:28 Dolatulo at 09:02 Paint The Clouds at 09:02 Yesyoucan at 09:02 Connectivity at 09:02 Topolski at 09:28

[NeilM]

I was watching a bit of the racing from Ffos Las yesterday and also Towcester. I've thought for some time that Ffos Las is a decent enough course for group/graded races despite it being the youngest course. Perhaps it is time to consider moving the Welsh National there given that problems have once again hit Chepstow. Also, Towcester is an ideal track for the smaller graded races.

[jayalexander]

What makes it ideal, Neil? The track is very testing and leans to a certain type of beast. Agree with you about Ffos Las, though, but Towcester always has the potential to be called off too!

[Bathtime For Rupert]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread One of the best races in a long time for me that. Four horses separated by about 2 lengths at the end of a 3m chase on soft ground off level weights! Flemenstar cantered round and looked the winner but found little, First Lieutenant then looked to be winning the battle before Tidal Bay stormed through to score close to the line with Sir Des Champs staying on well. Bobs Worth fans will be happy but you have to respect Sir Des Champs in my eyes so long as he jumps better. Nearly came down a couple of times but showed how much of an engine he has. If he jumps in March I still think he could be the one to beat. Incredible finish there and Tidal Bay proving himself very much a contender now with Nicholls.

[Gavlar17]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Agreed. Tremendous, I thought Tiday Bay bay was out of it but my oh my, what a finish! In my opinion though, Flemenstar should never have lost that. The others were rowing and Andrew Lynch was cruising until, all of a sudden, when he asks it to go it finds nothing. Take nothing away from the others though, cracking finish.

[DLL]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

One of the best races in a long time for me that. Four horses separated by about 2 lengths at the end of a 3m chase on soft ground off level weights! Flemenstar cantered round and looked the winner but found little, First Lieutenant then looked to be winning the battle before Tidal Bay stormed through to score close to the line with Sir Des Champs staying on well. Bobs Worth fans will be happy but you have to respect Sir Des Champs in my eyes so long as he jumps better. Nearly came down a couple of times but showed how much of an engine he has. If he jumps in March I still think he could be the one to beat. Incredible finish there and Tidal Bay proving himself very much a contender now with Nicholls.

Yeah brilliant race, I think Sir De Champs is the one to take out of it though. Better jumping on better ground back at Cheltenham must give him a chance of reversing the placings. One negative with Tidal Bay for the GC though must surely be his age, even Kauto and Denman couldn't win it at 10+.

[Blazing Bailey]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread I would also add that First Lieutenant should be taken out of the race too because he is a much better horse on firmer ground which he should get in March. Him, Sir De Champs & Bobs Worth look the most interesting to me at this stage. Cracking race though and how Ruby got him through that gap I will never know. Could have easily back fired on him!

[Tedthewolf]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Ignore sorry wrong thread.

[bowles10]

Tidal bay had his day today funny he used to be one if my fav hurdlers and I dont think I have backed it since it went back chasing Wouldn't give it a chance in the gold cup come march

[Bathtime For Rupert]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

Tidal bay had his day today funny he used to be one if my fav hurdlers and I dont think I have backed it since it went back chasing Wouldn't give it a chance in the gold cup come march

Think it would be sensible for connections to go for the World Hurdle. I could only see him winning a GC if the ground was very soft which you'd have to say the odds are against despite the weather this winter so far.

[cpo]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Flemenstar vs Sprinter Sacre :eek

[RIO2014]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Here is a 100% reason why i for one think you dont have a hope in this game, and why i will be dropping it like a stone... STORM SURVIVOR, 2.25 DONCASTER TODAY, Very soft ground. The reason in oct for the Horses bad run at ffos las in October, was "he does not like soft ground, and wont be running on it again"..JOHN JO(ill rob your eyes) ONEIL.... BOLTS UP today, on the bridle at finish......What fecking chance do you have, when they will rob your eyes, and come back for the sockets.... GL in this corrupt game in the future lads...

[james wood]

Re: Jump Racing ~ Sunday 30th December Hi ive joined today,just to post once. Today i had an ACCOUNT bet with Ladrokes on RENOYR in the 3.25 Don- i took the 9/1 the horse won at 9/2, the bet was settled at 9/2 as i had put the bet on after the newly? imposed 12 noon deadline. This could have been made clear to account punters,but it wasn't. COULD OTHER BOOKMAKERS FOLLOW.?

[bowles10]

It's our choice rio as it is your choice to give up Enjoy punting on something less corrupt whatever that may be