Question Of The Day

[BillyHills]

Ok guys, some days are pretty dire in the horse racing world but news happens all the time; Today we here that Channel 4 has secured the rights to the Grand National, Derby, Champions Day and Royal Ascot from 2013. So what do you think? Is it a good move that now all Racing will be on the same channel? Have BBC gone too far in their cost cutting and losing the plot completely, don't forget this is hot on the heels of F1 going to Sky? Is the license worth it anymore? My view; Must admit I have always liked the BBC's coverage of Racing, at this point i must stress that I HATE adverts with a passion, i have to record everything so i can skip the ad breaks, i end up watching things half an hour after they have started so i can skip the dam things. Anyway i don't know if its because i'm of the older generation and been brought up with the National on BBC dating back to the years when Des Lynum used to do the interviews and Peter O'Sullivan the commentaries that i'm a BBC fan but i think its a sad day when they finally let go of even more top events. To be honest many won't probably care as they are used to watching racing on the ATR or Racing UK but i do see the need for Racing to be on terrestrial TV, it does reach a far wider audience and that can only be good for Racing in the long term. So what about C4, do we like their product at the moment, is it good that they have the monopoly now and can relax and will this effect their input. I'm sure there are things to like and dislike about both channels, the presenters can be annoying at times but like all things they will evolve with the show. I think C4 did a fair job at Cheltenham, they seem to be lost between races for me whereas Racing Uk for instance use that time to interview connections and they are very helpful and informative, more than Thommo just cracking a joke and not even listening to the answers. The interviews of the winning jockeys with a microphone on a stick is tedious to me, they are all the same, both questions and answers! ATR just simply try and show too many races, its really a shame as they they try their best and usually cock up two races instead of recording one and letting us watch both with clarity, sorry guys but i don't want to see half a page of Navan and half a page of Chepstow. Again much better on play back unless your betting in running and the split screens really help you there don't they! At the end of the day if the BBC are skint or just want to bring more cooking programmes to the nation then thats their prerogative but i find it increasingly difficult to defend what should be the pride of British TV, we are all different but in the last two years they have now given up on my two favourite sports, Racing and F1, god knows how cricket fans feel these days. Best of luck to Channel 4 and i suppose we should thank them for giving our sport a lifeline, lets just hope they don't have to cock up the race times too much so they can fit Countdown in at 4pm, if there going to take over then do it properly! Thoughts?

[richard-westwood]

Re: Question Of The Day personally .....im glad to see the back of willie carson and his box !!!! great jockey ....but presenter ....no !! i think channel 4 could have done more with cheltenham .......i personally like it when they play good strong instrumental music (like the grand national ) and really go in depth on all runners ......(in some races they never even mentioned the winners ) .....it ramps up the excitement for me and i found this years coverage a little ......flattish from that perspective especially gold cup day where most of the program was devoted to 2 horses .....and neither of them won !!! cant stand thommo personally .......i really cant see what he brings to the table and his tipping ability is poor to say the least ......he just seems to have a racing voice and thats it for me .channel 4's coverage is relatively good but it can seem like an eton boys racing club at times .....(narf narf) and only john francome seems to break through this for me and i genuinely respect his output and if he were to stop doing it ...my interest would plummit immensely . but if you can ignore the bad bits then their coverage is more than ok and better than the bbc's from a normal punters point of view ......but now they have a bigger share (and budget hopefully) then maybe they can do more with it

[Trotter]

Re: Question Of The Day Now that I have ATR and RUK I never watch racing on terrestrial TV so from a personal sense I don't really care which channel, if any, it's on However for the wider good of the sport I'm quite pleased that it's all moved to C4. Being even older than BH............:loon..............and having had a break from the sport for 10/12 years from the mid 90s I really noticed the decline of the beeb coverage when i started watching again I was shocked at the Grand National coverage - how it had become just like the X factor with every jockey, horse, trainer, owner having to have some kind of sad back-story to make the thing of any interest to the general Beeb viewer. Then Ascot was all about hats and frocks I thought it was appaling and a million times worse than C4 who at least seemed to be interested in the actual racing Good riddance to the Beeb................. I just think they've given up on sport. Even before they lost the cricket their committment to it was fading - eg they would leave the game every hour to bring news headlines, weather etc.......how annoying was that ! I guess being License Fee funded and with the political parties making it clear that the license fee will not be going up much in the immediate future, allied to the massive rises in sports rights costs (powered by competition in TV) - the Beeb just can't compete any more financially In fact the Beeb has just dumbed down all round - BBC1 is now just like ITV, BBC2 is just like BBC1..........they've even had to give us BBC3 and BBC4 ro replace the original BBC1 and BBC2 which they've let go to the dogs Combination of these things..........lack of ability to compete for rights, dumbing down, lack of interest in sport............well, it's no loss is it that the Beeb have lost racing C4 have always done it better and always shown more committment ,

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: Question Of The Day Simon Holt calling home the Derby, now that could be a wee bit special, he cant be touched. Alastair Down said on Saturday..... He can read a race before it even happens, how true. On a down side, its already been said, ADVERTS! Ch-4 should head hunt Clare Balding, she's a fine judge of a horse.

[The Saint]

Re: Question Of The Day I think the problem lies in that both C4 and BBC coverage of racing is under pressure to appeal to as big a market as is possible. Therefore they are almost forced into having 'fashion' slots and the like. I'm not really interested in watching C4 racing presenters and jockeys racing round in cars or whatever but I guess that's what the prodcers think appeals most. It has to be the case that Punters watch racing and they are only interested in Punting, analysis and the race itself. I only really rate John Francome and Nick Luck as presenters - Jim Mcgrath is brilliant but not as good as he was... The rest of em - Tommo and Lesley Graham inparticular literally make me reach for the mute button. Tricky - If given the choice I'd watch ATR but can't quite justift the cost of Racing UK when I practically live next door to a bookies! 'Champions' is the music RW refers to and was used in the film of the same name about Aldaniti and Bob Champion's National - makes me cry like a baby everytime!:eyes Nice Thread BH

[Darran]

Re: Question Of The Day From what I have read its nothing to do with the BBC being skint, they actually bid more for the rights than C4 but C4 were chosen so all the racing would be in one place. It was thought that C4 would stop pushing the likes of the Grand National because they didnt show it. I think its a shame because viewing figures will drop. BBC1 gets more viewers for things than C4 and that will be the case here. I think racing has shot itself in the foot here and worth thinking that now C4 have all the rights they are in a great position to offer a cheaper bid next time around. At the moment Sky cant get involved as the Derby and GN are protected and ITV show no sign of wanting to show racing. Its a poor decision for me.

[Lodge]

Re: Question Of The Day Agree with what The Saint said regarding making the show appeal to a bigger audience. Not all C4 viewers are going to be punters. From a punters perspective i'd much rather see a decent race preview in between races with views from the likes of Francome and McGrath, however i'm sure theres plenty of people out there who quite like seeing which of the royals have turned up and how much money Mike Tindall has lost :lol i can imagine its not particularly easy to strike a healthy balance....

[richard-westwood]

Re: Question Of The Day

I think the problem lies in that both C4 and BBC coverage of racing is under pressure to appeal to as big a market as is possible. Therefore they are almost forced into having 'fashion' slots and the like. I'm not really interested in watching C4 racing presenters and jockeys racing round in cars or whatever but I guess that's what the prodcers think appeals most. It has to be the case that Punters watch racing and they are only interested in Punting, analysis and the race itself. I only really rate John Francome and Nick Luck as presenters - Jim Mcgrath is brilliant but not as good as he was... The rest of em - Tommo and Lesley Graham inparticular literally make me reach for the mute button. Tricky - If given the choice I'd watch ATR but can't quite justift the cost of Racing UK when I practically live next door to a bookies! 'Champions' is the music RW refers to and was used in the film of the same name about Aldaniti and Bob Champion's National - makes me cry like a baby everytime!:eyes Nice Thread BH

yeah thats the tune and theres another one i dont know the name of !!!!...lol. just makes the whole thing come alive for me .....wish they would do more!!!....."the mission " was the latest i think

.........i defy you not to get excited ...watching this all the way through!!

[trips]

Re: Question Of The Day Never have been a fan of C4 racing, it's a lot better today than say 15 -20 ago, Ive always felt c4 racing is more of a circus,it just has that Hughie green feeling to me, Phoney,more about showmanship than presenting a racing program for racing enthusiasts, maybe i am a bit biased as my opinion was formed many years ago,i just find the likes of Mcririck and Thompson and Alistair very annoying,same old style of presenting. Mcririck being controversial to stand out, as they say any news is good news,i believe that's his attitude. Thompson seems to be laughing under his breath every time he opens his mouth, Alistor down just waffles on as though he is reciting a literary masterpiece. Many years ago BBC was class, having the likes of Peter Osullivan gave it so much class. It falls way behind C4 in time coverage, always has done but i still miss the Likes of Royal Ascot and other top meetings not being shown on BBC. In a Nutshell ive always thought BBC was about presenting a serious dedicated racing program for racing fans. C4 is about trying to present a fun entertaining sometimes outrageous show anyone can watch ,sorry that's why i can't take the show serious

[BillyHills]

Re: Question Of The Day Quotes from C4 and BBC

Channel 4 sports editor Jamie Aitchison said: "Throughout this whole process there have been people who have had concerns about moving from the BBC to Channel 4, but I've reassured them that we totally understand the magnitude of these huge national events and we will treat them with the care they require. People should not underestimate how big this is for Channel 4. "We are going to be the home of racing and that changes everything. My message is no stone will be unturned. We will look at everything. Some of the elements we do now will stay but we hope to present racing in a way that it has not been done before. We are going to look at everything and, of course, that includes the presentation team." Ascot, which handed Channel 4 its jumps meetings after the BBC dropped them three years ago, admitted that it had thought hard about whether the Royal meeting would retain its stature on commercial television but ultimately deemed that the organisation's offer to be irresistible. Chief executive Charles Barnett said: "We have had a long relationship with the BBC and are sad that it's ending, but this is a major move forward and the start of an exciting new era for the industry. Advertising will break up the programmes, and we have to accept that, but having all racing on one channel is a bigthing and Channel 4 want the major crown jewel events to stand out as they have on the BBC." In similar vein, Aintree chairman Lord Daresbury said: "Aintree has had a long and close relationship with the BBC and it has been very successful but we have to look to the future." A BBC spokesperson said: "The BBC are proud of their long heritage of broadcasting horseracing and did put in as competitive a bid as possible in the current climate. We are, of course, disappointed that we have lost the rights, but we are pleased that all the races in the contract remain free to air."

[erhaab1965]

Re: Question Of The Day BBC Racing used to be good many years ago. But now down to only a handful of meetings I'm glad it has gone to C4. I used to like the presenters like O'Sullivan , Lindley , Lynam etc , but their replacements such as Balding and Rishi were awful. I found Balding extremeley rude especially the post Grand National interview with journeyman jockey Treadwell where she mocked him about his teeth after the biggest win of his career. She did it again with another journeyman jockey a couple of years later telling viewers he had a tattoo of his favorite football team misspelled on his back. Rishi is awful at interviewing and comes across as an ar-selicker. Glad they got rid of that arrogant little man James Sherwood at Royal Ascot who loved to put people down if not dressed to his taste. Only problem is that they replaced him with someone just as irritating. Hope C4 don't concentrate on the fashion.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Question Of The Day Cant stand that Lesley Graham , always a fake smile even though half the nation has just done their bo-llocks in on a nationwide gamble which just got turned over. Alice Plunket is a younger version of her but just as false. Same questions to every winning jockey , " ...enjoy the moment ..." Cant stand them cricket players turned racing experts , their lack of knowledge come across instantly. Used to dislike that Tanya but after about a decade I've started to warm to her , not quite sure why I didn't like her , either she wasn't sexy enough or her presenting skills were not up to scratch , but whichever it is she certainly does know her stuff.

[Darran]

Re: Question Of The Day I bet Liam didnt mind the fact she took the mick out of his teeth given the fact he got a free new set. Lets hope C4 use this as time to improve and freshen up the presenting line up. They have pretty much used the same set of presenters for years now and its time for a change.

[trips]

Re: Question Of The Day Yes,spot on, I would like to see, Mike Cattermole,Emma Ramsden,(not because i fancy her,just like her as a presenter)stay on the show always liked John Francome and have a sneaky feeling he would rather be in a more professional team.Jim McGrath ok but would be better in a new line up,after finally getting rid of GG Simon Holt seems like a godsend. The rest can go for me.If they did something like this i would probably sit back and watch the whole programme instead of just switching over at race times.

[runadrum]

Re: Question Of The Day Bottom line is that the BBC gave up on racing a long while ago and it's not a surprise that racing has given up on the Beeb. They've got what they asked for ! Adverts are a chore - why do we have to have the pointless 15 second commercial for Betfair while the programme is still running ? - as are the winning jockey interviews walking in. Down is a windbag, McCririck is an oaf, Plunkett can lose the stupid hats and Thompson is going senile - but if it wasn't for C4 where would we be ?

[erhaab1965]

Re: Question Of The Day Who on earth enjoys listening to A Down , who is he trying to impress ? Is there anybody on this forum who talks like A Down ?

[bowles10]

Re: Question Of The Day didnt realise the beeb still showed racing lol cant stand thier coverage to be honest and just about cope with C4. havent got RUK and dont really need it as not around most sats due to football as long as cheltenham and royal ascot is on terrestial then thats fine. Would like to see more midweek action return i.e. craven meeting, dante meeting etc i like cattermole and he presents well with spencer/ramsden whateva her name is this month alex quinn/hammond would be a good addition but she wont leave sky ted walsh has to go, IMO tells u nothing and often steers you off winners , think he tucks us up most of the time francome and mcgrath are ok but big mac is well past his sell by date good luck to C4, they'll need it

[kev2oo9]

Re: Question Of The Day haha erhaab , im pretty sure his voice is recorded to audio tapes in conjunction with sleeping aides. not fussed either way , with bbc or ch4. dont think either are that good plus they only tell you what you could find for yourself "horse A well backed 5/4 into 6/5..." wow

[jtw1]

Re: Question Of The Day A sad but inevitable outcome considering the way the Beeb has been reducing it's coverage over the past decade or so along with the birth of the 2 dedicated channels , ATR and RUK . The Grand National especially will be missed by myself [and a good few others] as the thought of suffering ad break after ad break after ad break will detract from the pre-race build-up which ,imo, the BBC excelled at . It's no surprise really that more and more sports fixtures have been given up by the Beeb as the cost of outside broadcasting is very costly and you can probably make 3 series of Masterchef for the cost of broadcasting the Aintree meeting !!! The days of O'Sullevan , Wilson and co are well and truly in the past now ............:( I just hope a shake-up in the presenting line-up at C4 will be on the cards , but i doubt it ............whoa there big fella :$

[Bathtime For Rupert]

Re: Question Of The Day I always preferred the BBC coverage to C4, but it's quite remarkable how both manage to alienate viewers with some of the most annoying presenters possible. I can just about handle John Parrott being there, and I know he pretty much just focuses on the market, but you don't see Linford Christie at the toin coss during the Ashes. Willie Carson annoys me so much on it too, but the C4 coverage is often just like a parody. There are a few people I respect - Francome, McGrath, Holt - but is there seriously no better presenters to cover terrestrial racing than the likes of Tanya Stevenson, Derek Thompson, Lesley Graham, etc? They all annoy me in many ways. I'd much rather watch RUK - which is easily the best racing broadcaster - but obviously that is not always possible with it being a subscription service. I get far better angles into races from there, and the post-race analysis is so much better than C4 (BBC inbetween in my opinion). As for ATR, it does a job, considering the large amount of racing it shows. They do still have their annoying presenters who are sort of obligated to be there based on previously being jockeys etc, but it doesn't make them good broadcasters. There are plenty of others I like and respect though, and the likes of Chapman etc don't often miss things in races that you've seen and think are important, and so long as there's time, there's usually some decent analysis. I hope they refresh and revamp the thing now, because it's a bit boring and not as good as it really ought to be.

[Darran]

Re: Question Of The Day I think people need to see that there needs to be a difference between ATR/RUK and C4 and BBC. If you want hardcore racing advice then you are going to subscribe to RUK and watch their output over C4. However if you only have a bet on a Saturday and the big meetings then C4 is going to be exactly what you want and those people arent going to want to watch ATR or RUK. It doesnt surprise me C4 and BBC coverage gets slated on racing forums because they are the hardcore. I do think C4 need to freshen things up presenter wise, but I enjoyed the Cheltenham coverage last week as I do like to have features in between races which I prefer to watching loads of re-runs of the race that has just happened. The problem ATR have is they have to many people on there who clearly have made no effort to prep a meeting and just try and wing it and boy does it show. If you watch RUK you know both presenters and pundits will have put the ground work in beforehand.

[mowgli77]

Re: Question Of The Day I hate both Ch4 and BBC coverage, jobs for the boys. John McCririck, Alistair Down, Derek Thompson, Lesley Graham, Tanya Stevenson, Willie Carson, Gary Wiltshire, Alice Plunkett all annoy the hell out of me and it feels like all are working for the bookies rather than the punter. They actually tell you nothing worthwhile. I don't like Jim McGrath (the timeform one) because he has a poor attitude but he does actually talk more sense than the rest. I like Francome and he's one of the few I don't mind listening to on Ch4. Rishi Persad on BBC is embarrassing, think he does a bit for RUK too. Obviously the serious punters want to watch RUK or ATR and expect very different coverage from your weekend gambler, Ch4 and BBC don't have the balance right and mug you off as far as I'm concerned, all about market movers but nothing about value and nothing to actually help anyone new to racing understand betting/racing at all. I know Gingertister used to bang on about value and how the racing programmes never mentioned odds/chances tables and %'s etc but he had a valid point. All we get is the fat annoying prick McCririck telling us about a massive gamble, 5-1 into 4-1, waving his arms about with his stupid fkin tic tac that no one cares about, I hate him. He is well recognised though and I suppose that works for racing but he damages the sport, banging on about whip bans, cruelty to horses etc, needs to learn when to keep his big mouth shut and has been pulled up on it many times by Jim McGrath. When the mug punter turns the TV on Saturday afternoon and sees McCririck they know racing is on. They might see Nick Luck and think it's a programme about antiques or something. I don't get why we have other sports celebrities covering racing rather than racing people, Parrot on BBC and Matt Dawson recently on Ch4. I hate the interviews straight after a race where Alice Plunkett is chasing them round the course for a pointless soundbite. I know the fashion is part of Ascot and you have ladies day etc but the programme is a racing programme, not a fashion one. You wouldn't tune into footy to see supporters parading their outfits at the turnstiles but so much of a programme is focused on what the fake tanned tango faced bleach blonde bints are wearing, why not tag a programme on afterwards for anyone that really cares and give us some video highlights of the runners we are about to see and some quality input for once. I planned on watching Ch4 and then catching last 2 races via a betting site for Cheltenham but after watching the Morning Line I decided I couldn't stand 4 days of Ch4 so ordered Racing UK and the difference in quality is amazing. It isn't just that they show more racing, the whole production is better and the presenters focus on things of importance - ground, trip, pace in a race, trainer form, jockeys, formlines. Racing for change should hijack the Ch4 coverage and change the trash we are fed by the numpties. And relax. :eek

[Darran]

Re: Question Of The Day The thing is you would expect that from RUK. There is no way that you could do what RUK do on C4 or BBC. I quite enjoyed the C4 coverage last week and even if I had RUK I would still watch it on C4 as the in depth stuff on RUK bores me a fair bit of the time. Yes it wasnt perfect and I would make some changes, but I think it did the job it sets out to do pretty well.

[Trotter]

Re: Question Of The Day Blimey...........how lucky are we in this country ? Today I've watched a marvellous hour or more long show on ATR with Hunty and Hugh Taylor going over cheltenham, picking some jumps and all weather eye catchers, dealing with viewer e-mails on the tricky subject of 'value' and general racing, betting and systems chat Afternoon basically watching RUK but flicking over to ATR for selected races. Every race in the country on live with previews, post views, interviews etc........... Then a terrific few hours in the company of Lydia and Eddie The Shoe with tonights Kempton card and in between races previews of the Winter Derby, the Lincoln, the flat season to come, the jockey title, viewers e-mails and a few laughs along the way I wonder if any other country gets racing coverage like we do ?