PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

[The Saint]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

Isn't that always the case with forums though? I think a lot of newbies get involved, but some will feel like they can't match what has already been said for sure, but it's not about matching, it's about posting your thoughts and becoming a better punter. Ahem.... I don't know!! I'm only questioning that the general level of knowledge on the forum might put novices off - as I said, I don't overly have a solution. It's a betting forum though, what did you expect?:lol That's obviously just me then - Personally, I am more interested in observing others techniques/methods and either learning from them or even helping/advising them on a way forward or an alternitive. I'm honestly not interested in actual 'tips'. I DO appreciate that is probably what creates the most traffic though. When a non-tipping thread is in full cry though (and this is only my personal opinion), you get a whole group of Posters come out to play who hold a very high level of knowledge - Kithanga, Harrisman, tehboyrooney, Fintron, Mowgli to name but a few... Thats's not to say they don't post elsewhere - they are just the type of thread I get the most from myself and fear that could be missed by new posters if the HR page is full of tipping threads. No matter - I think I am probably in a small minority here! You can discuss till the cows come home but you only have to look out some general chat threads to see how they can go on forever, because we all have different opinions. PL has always been about post your opinions and if you disagree with someone else's, then state why and you can decide whether to leave it there or carry it on, it's tipping and discussion and we're the best betting forum out there when it comes to this or anything else for that matter. ;) Certainly not disagreeing with you on this point. "Only" 50 regulars. :lol I'd say that's a very healthy number, how many do you think there should be? Haven't seen anything to do with Erhaab, so I'd need an example. I've not really thought about it... I guess if you think about the number of people that bet on horses and attend the races then isn't 50 low? I haven't a clue m8 - It's your baby, and I'm ignorant to such things - it's the only forum I post on. Erhaab is big enough to fight his own battles I am sure. I think it's just a clash of the generations and his writing style on occassion. As much as disagree with him it's always good to have different opinions. I'm certainly not going to highlight occassions where other posters have been aggressive - not got the time for one!! Here's that word again, please go and look that word up and get its full meaning, because it's the one of the most overused and misunderstood words and just doesn't apply and any newbie that has been to a Raceday will tell you that. If someone has that perception, then I can only put it down to a lack of confidence to put yourself in a Raceday as a newbie. However, the welcome that you get and in particular I give to newbies is very strategic like, I absolutely make sure I make time for them and introduce them to the others, but all done in a relaxed manor. You certainly wouldn't know I was "The Boss" for example, in fact I've heard countless times at Racedays and Poker days, that they didn't even know who I was. :lol It's just people generally don't like to put themselves in new situations, but you don't learn anything or create new opportunities and friends if you don't. ;) Agree - again! Honestly, I am only pointing out what I think other people could think if dropping in on the site for the first time. The articles will be appearing on the right sidebar soon enough, just a few things ahead of it in the pipeline at the moment. I could have gone outside of PL to get writers and do for some sites I have, but there's no arse kissing going on. I hardly speak to BH or Mowgli, they login, upload their articles and that's it. What I see in this aspect is envy from a select minority of members (not saying you btw), as to why they were chosen. Well I chose them because they have the time to do it, they have the knowledge and they have grammar skills that aren't of a 5 year old. The way some people write on forums makes me cringe, it's shocking and that is the single biggest factor in how I pick writers, along with their general quality and reliability. Again - I don't have a problem with these posts at all - it's just my personal opinion that the forum should be the 'homepage' as such - not my business or decision to make. Welcome to the real world, it works far differently than the PC brigade would ever want it to. ;) The hosting costs alone (without other expenses) for PL are 4 figures per month. Ha ha! I wish I was PC - life would have been so much simpler! For me, the Bookmaking business is pretty much corrupt - I can't think of a better word but I'm sure there is one. I got out when they introduced the Irish Lottery and Fruit Machines - that wasn't what I was there for. Now they promote FOBTs and decline business from any punter that is switched on with scrooge like limits offered to anyone that has the audacity to consistently take the best price. The betting public are far more swithced on than they ever were and yet the Bookie in the street or online still only wants to take bets from the weak and the ill disciplined. I don't mind that they do this to be honest - each man has to be responsible for his or her actions and I struggle with the concept of gambling being an addiction (told you I wasn't PC!) but while they do this, I do object that they can pick and choose who they play ball with - surely it's not too much to ask that everyone is treated the same?! Yeah jog on! ;);) One thing I have learned in my time at PL is, you are never going to please everyone. Along with the mods I make logical decisions on how this site should progress and there's no doubt we get most of those right, otherwise PL wouldn't have come as far as it has since Ollie sold the site to me 8 years ago.

Was it only 8 years ago?! Seems longer - I posted as 'Le Tiss is God' originally - way back in the day.... 2002 I would think. It's a great site Paul - in no way at all am I trying to undermine or criticise it. Just help or put across a differing point of view - or even just to evoke a decent disscussion. I'm 100% sure you do, but it might/could be a good idea to get hold of some punters that have passed through and find out why they stopped posting? It's not my business I kno - just want the site to continue being a success and continue to evolve in a positive manner.

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers I know you're not having a go, just expressing an opinion and so am I. If I chased everyone who disappeared, I'd be doing it 24/7. Some I know emigrated, got different jobs, gave up betting, had kids, got married, the list is endless and people's lives move on and new blood comes in to replace them. ;)

[fintron]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers fwiw, I like the extra sports content myself. I think it adds something extra to the site and the homepage with the new logo etc - it brought the site up to date. There were a few teething problems for me with the new forum initially, I preferred the older layout and the speed was an issue, but the speed was soon addressed and is back to a fair level, and the layout ive gradually got used to. Perhaps the lack of 'togetherness' mentioned above might, in part, be due to moving the personal threads into the other section? I know there was an issue with some posters starting and canning threads after a short time, but, for me, the ATR forum has lost something by having the personal threads in the systems section.

[Blazing Bailey]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

fwiw, I like the extra sports content myself. I think it adds something extra to the site and the homepage with the new logo etc - it brought the site up to date. There were a few teething problems for me with the new forum initially, I preferred the older layout and the speed was an issue, but the speed was soon addressed and is back to a fair level, and the layout ive gradually got used to. Perhaps the lack of 'togetherness' mentioned above might, in part, be due to moving the personal threads into the other section? I know there was an issue with some posters starting and canning threads after a short time, but, for me, the ATR forum has lost something by having the personal threads in the systems section.

I would agree with this. Firstly I think it is a very clever idea to use these articles to promote the site, especially on Twitter. It keeps the site in the public eye and also keeps it 'fresh'. With regards to the personal threads, I must admit that I preferred it when they were in the main forum. I admit that I dont read them as much as I used to, which is a shame because there is some really good information and insight in there.

[markmywords]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers Thanks BH.

[bowles10]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers My personal opinion about the threads transferring into the systems page is that i still feel it takes something away from the main ATR page. I have said this before and also flagged it to Paul at the time. Pauls view is included in the many posts above. The main page now has half a page of "stickys", so you are scrolling down to find the daily threads. Again, i dont like this unless those stickys are relevant to the daily threads, essentially they are competitions/league tables etc. The personal threads etc were a concern as they had to be managed and now they are in the systems thread they dont need the same attention and i feel they have been "hidden away" which is a shane. We have lost some posters because of this and although they may only be a few, they were decent posters. I stopped my personal thread also and only now have the trends thread in that section. I used to put up the "key race" thread for debate about the big races. I stopped this agsain possibly through the fact i couldnt be arsed if others couldnt be arsed, as anyone can put up a new thread called Key RAce - King George etc but they dont. Not sure why that is, i can only think its because they expect someone else to do it. As for the PL writers, the ATR ones do a great job.

[mowgli77]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

I used to put up the "key race" thread for debate about the big races. I stopped this agsain possibly through the fact i couldnt be arsed if others couldnt be arsed, as anyone can put up a new thread called Key RAce - King George etc but they dont. Not sure why that is, i can only think its because they expect someone else to do it.

A few seem to use the ante post thread so posting in a key race thread would be just duplicating content. The ante post thread seems to be used for both bets and discussion so not sure a "key race" thread each week is needed. I'd be more than happy to start them on a Sunday each week for the upcoming weeks main race (Betfair Chase, Tingle Creek etc etc) if enough people believe they are a good idea and are needed. They make more sense for the jumps than the flat for sure as there is nearly always a top class race on a Saturday afternoon and some top class ones on Sundays in Ireland too.

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

As for the PL writers, the ATR ones do a great job.

What's wrong with the others. :unsure

[bowles10]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

A few seem to use the ante post thread so posting in a key race thread would be just duplicating content. The ante post thread seems to be used for both bets and discussion so not sure a "key race" thread each week is needed. I'd be more than happy to start them on a Sunday each week for the upcoming weeks main race (Betfair Chase' date=' Tingle Creek etc etc) if enough people believe they are a good idea and are needed. They make more sense for the jumps than the flat for sure as there is nearly always a top class race on a Saturday afternoon and some top class ones on Sundays in Ireland too.[/quote'] true phil about the ante post thread but it doesnt analyse a big race in the detail i think others would contribute to. Not saying it has to be resurrected but it worked for some races not all.

[bowles10]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

What's wrong with the others. :unsure

No idea, i'm only talking about ATR, i'm sure the others do a great job also just havent read them

[BillyHills]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

The personal threads etc were a concern as they had to be managed and now they are in the systems thread they dont need the same attention and i feel they have been "hidden away" which is a shane. We have lost some posters because of this and although they may only be a few, they were decent posters. I stopped my personal thread also and only now have the trends thread in that section. I used to put up the "key race" thread for debate about the big races. I stopped this agsain possibly through the fact i couldnt be arsed if others couldnt be arsed, as anyone can put up a new thread called Key RAce - King George etc but they dont. Not sure why that is, i can only think its because they expect someone else to do it.

Rob, dont want to go on about this too much as its been discussed before but have to take you to task about your comments; Firstly the individual threads went into the systems section in April this year, i have been through the whole section and cant find these threads that have stopped suddenly around that time, can you please tell me these posters that stopped their threads because of the move? We know Monte and Milen stopped but that was for other reasons entirely. A couple of guys ended their jumps threads as it was the end of the season but are still posting on a regular basis. The second thing is that you put the Key Race threads up because that was your suggestion in the Mods forum back then and it was your baby and responsibility to keep it going, seems to me it was less urgent once you were no longer a Mod and as you said yourself you couldnt be arsed anymore. Now i'm not blaming you for feeling slightly upset at the changes that didn't suit you at that time but you cant just make sweeping statements that are not factually true either. Feel free to contribute a bit more and i have no problem with a Key race of the week thread, no-one ever banned them as far as i can remember, you can stick your trends in them too :ok

[bowles10]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers A few to mention BH, CPO Ted's bag a rag Phills_99 JTW1 Kroni all had threads which have ceased over the last 6 months and these haven't "ended", they just "ceased" to continue them. I'm not saying its the decision to move the threads into another area that caused this, but 2 people in that list have raised the issue and 1 has stopped posting now who had a long running thread. its not major but i am just replying to the fact there were some that stopped their threads (maybe for other reasons, who knows) I said it at the time the change was made and thats still my opinion. What i agree on is that you dont want the main ATR page cluttered with threads that start up and dont go anywhere. That would be fatal. I suppose i prefer the older days when we had newbies joining and really making a mark, i.e. Mowgli, Fin, BTP, Alexmac, Ginge, Mileni, Monterosso and so on. With the older guard of me, you, AK, Carl all backing up the site and making it what it is today. These days there is plenty of choice so they can go to another forum if they wish so you have to make PL attractive to join. I didnt join for the comps, i joined for the banter about racing and football. I actually joined to do Football bets, it was only when i saw the ATR page with no life in it that i decided to take that on. That was 10 years ago, and i still visit PL most days and post most days. That is all history now and in the past, all i would say is to people is don't forget your roots! My heart went out of it back in April when the changes were made and being demodded. That's fair enough, i can take that on the chin and perhaps could have walked away then which is what i was thinking to do at the time. However, this place gives everyone a chance to discuss racing and also put up there reasonings behind thier selections. You won't see me contributing to the daily threads much as i dont bet during the week in the main and leave my bets for the bigger meetings. Thats how i roll now, saves me time spent on poor quality racing. I have thought a few times about posting a key race up and in fact i possibly did back in the Summer, however its the jumps game that enthuses me and the big Saturday races. Again some good debate on here :)

[The Saint]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers Some well argued points Bowles - from memory, CPO and Kroni both started their threads when the pages were seperated though. I don't know the others. I think it is important to maintain quality and the main page really must not get cluttered with threads that start and then finish within the week! That's one of the reasons I like them where they are... I do recall there was a point where posters had to ask 'permission' from moderators to start a personal thread. For me - that stank to high heaven and wasn't at all welcoming to potential newbies. For what it's worth, I very much hope the forum does not return to that....

[bowles10]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

Some well argued points Bowles - from memory, CPO and Kroni both started their threads when the pages were seperated though. I don't know the others. I think it is important to maintain quality and the main page really must not get cluttered with threads that start and then finish within the week! That's one of the reasons I like them where they are... I do recall there was a point where posters had to ask 'permission' from moderators to start a personal thread. For me - that stank to high heaven and wasn't at all welcoming to potential newbies. For what it's worth, I very much hope the forum does not return to that....

yep agreed, and where they are now is where they will stay. We do speak about duplicate content though and this is what happens, we have to post in 2 places at present, so often i only post my trends in the systems thread and not on the dailys.

[BillyHills]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers Saint, that was only done when we had a spate of new people starting personal threads and then packing them up after a loser or two, it was getting ridiculous and looking very shabby like some other places i have seen. We needed to cut it back a bit and it worked quite well with only the serious members who were in it for the long haul having threads. It also showed what standard of reasoning was required and many one time newbies went on to start their own threads and some still have them. The way we have it now is that brand new members can indeed have a go on their own in the systems section, you see we cant please everyone, some moan that we were stopping newbies from getting involved and now we get moaned at because by enabling this and shifting them into a personal thread section we are ushering them away from the main horse racing forum. Some did like the bigger audience of the main section and thought they would be ignored after the move, well i have my theories on that one shall we say. Whats the hardship about having to look at two different sections, i have 5 tabs on the top of my PC for the different sections i post in, its not rocket science is it? Some of these people who made a stand and left the PL for a while at the time just dont realise how difficult it is to keep this place running smooth and stop it from becoming a right mess. Do we really want stacks of threads with people telling us they were told to back this that and the other by a bloke in the pub, or people sticking up a list of tips for the day without reasoning or a dozen threads a week from first time posters saying they have the secret of success and then once they have a loser sign back up under a different name! Its all been done believe me. Sometimes we have to make decisions which are not to everyones taste but i hate it when posters suggest its a closed shop, or a clique or there is something sinister going on backstage. It makes me laugh when members become Mods and they are terribly disappointed when they find out that they have not been signed up for the CIA or something. Its just a group of people who give up their time voluntarily to make the forum a decent place to come. I do agree we should have more discussion threads and this has been spoken about on many occasions, the thing is people dont contribute to them enough, its a chance for newbies to get involved and for one reason or another its just the same old faces that reply, now if new members feel intimidated by the knowledge of the regulars and are afraid to give their views then you tell me what the answer is. I dont see the experienced guys having a pop at anyone, in fact most guys are very helpful towards the new ones.

[bowles10]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers Graham, i think you are right in the summing up in your last post. A messy forum is a nightmare to control. You certainly have my total respect for the way you work on the entire forum. Dont get me wrong, i am not after any changes as those made previously are here to stay, i was just joining in the debate which i think i started ! Its good to hear some views though and any newbies reading this will feel better i expect for the advice and support on here. We should be looking at Cheltenham soon also, the countdown is on.

[The Saint]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

Saint, that was only done when we had a spate of new people starting personal threads and then packing them up after a loser or two, it was getting ridiculous and looking very shabby like some other places i have seen. We needed to cut it back a bit and it worked quite well with only the serious members who were in it for the long haul having threads. It also showed what standard of reasoning was required and many one time newbies went on to start their own threads and some still have them.

Fair enough m8 - I can only speak as I found on my return. A great post. On the flip side, (as I say - only my opinion as someone coming back) it did create the impression of a 'closed' shop. The reasoning is essential in my opinon and long may it continue. I may be wrong, but I think that the Systems & Personal Threads section is as busy as I've ever seen it... I'm speaking from a limited knowledge of the middle history of the forum though so am happy to be corrected!

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers You're probably right Saint. I guess the issue is, is that some of the longer standing members think they've been sent to Siberia, but this is the internet, it's one click away from where it was. Every site needs structure and PL more than most. The changes have worked very well, but new members have come along started their threads unknowing of how it used to be and got on with it - to me that speaks volumes that the decisions made were correct. PL was strangling itself in certain parts, it had to be expanded and now it's far and away a much better site and much easier to find what you want.

[The Saint]

Thanks Paul - one other thing that crossed my mind - I mentioned this at the start if the year.... The daily racing competition with 3 divs and lots of big priced winners... There are plenty of people entered up in that whom u don't see anything of in the ATR section - which based on some of the selections and figures being produced is a shame. I have a hunch that the scoring system encourages a more ahem.... Gun ho approach to selections but am bemused as to why the 2 sections don't seem to have all the same regular posters... Would be great if some of these could be encouraged over to ATR section. I promise I'm gonna pipe down now!! :)