PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

[bowles10]

PL has its own tipsters with regular selections (every day i believe). These are free to members of PL. I must be honest, i never back anyone elses selections and rarely read others "tips" but i do like to read analysis to see how they read the race.

[Tedthewolf]

Re: A question regarding tipster services Maybe its just me it probably is but, it disappoints me when guys leave ATR to sell there tips. We lost two good lads in Montie & Mileni this year. We all go on about why would you want to buy tips when you got PL but more & more are jumping ship to do just that or doing both (selling & putting tips up here) Another thing i really don't like (ill probably get slaughtered for this but its the way i feel) is the other part of PL where some people get a section to put paragraphs of there tips up that pisses me right off. PL has changed a fair bit in the last while and i know change is needed at times and can be good but you can also lose your identity. Back to the subject of paying for tips. If you want set amount paid monthly for your tip does that not put pressure on to churn out selections? Would it not be better to charge for say 10 tips so the is no time restriction you can concentrate of quality rathe than quantity?

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: A question regarding tipster services

Another thing i really don't like (ill probably get slaughtered for this but its the way i feel) is the other part of PL where some people get a section to put paragraphs of there tips up that pisses me right off. PL has changed a fair bit in the last while and i know change is needed at times and can be good but you can also lose your identity.

What do you mean Ted? Nobody's gonna slaughter you. :lol Be specific and to who you're talking about and I'll explain. ;)

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: PL's Racing Article Writers Ok, I've pulled this from the other thread so as not to dilute that thread. I'm curious to know what the issue is here and there's no big mushroom explosion about to happen. We're just discussing it. ;)

[bowles10]

Re: PL's Racing Article Writers

Ok, I've pulled this from the other thread so as not to dilute that thread. I'm curious to know what the issue is here and there's no big mushroom explosion about to happen. We're just discussing it. ;)

personally Paul i dont need to know anything more about this as we had that discussion and the matter was closed in my opinion.

[The Saint]

Re: A question regarding tipster services

) Another thing i really don't like (ill probably get slaughtered for this but its the way i feel) is the other part of PL where some people get a section to put paragraphs of there tips up that pisses me right off.

I'm intreged by this Ted! Is this the systems etc page or a part of the PL I don't know about?

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers Ok cool Rob, it's just you keep mentioning it in posts so I assumed you still had an issue with it.

[The Saint]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers Oh those!!!! No issue with them personally. I mean they are no use to me whatsoever as I have to follow my own ratings/perception of value etc. That having been said, I greatly respect both Mowgli's and BH's opinions - I just can't devote the time to read through them myself as they are quite in-depth... (That is the sort of thing we are talking about right?) Only issue I can think of is one that I can't believe hasn't come up before, in that PL could come across as being a little cliqey (no spell check!) - I don't think it is having been here along time and having re-established myself but I can see how that could come across to a Newbie or potential newbie.

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

Oh those!!!! No issue with them personally. I mean they are no use to me whatsoever as I have to follow my own ratings/perception of value etc. That having been said, I greatly respect both Mowgli's and BH's opinions - I just can't devote the time to read through them myself as they are quite in-depth... (That is the sort of thing we are talking about right?)

Yup, the PL Home Articles. For the record, I've never heard anyone have an issue with Kevshat, CzechPunter or SteveO who also write articles. I've never even met CP for the record.

Only issue I can think of is one that I can't believe hasn't come up before, in that PL could come across as being a little cliqey (no spell check!) - I don't think it is having been here along time and having re-established myself but I can see how that could come across to a Newbie or potential newbie.

Cliquey in what way Saint?:unsure

[bowles10]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers forums are a bit cliquey, i think they have to be, as members will get to know each other and you find certain users will comment to certain users threads but not others, thats the way it is i recall seeing members joining on here and those that dont stay are often those who feel they dont exactly fit in. I always saw PL as a members club of which you will get 50 odd posters regular in the ATR thread for example. The threads get possibly ten times that as viewers during the day, so we know the lurkers are out there

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers I think cliquey is one of the most overused words on forums ever. A clique is something where you're not welcomed because you're new and not one of the crew, far from what happens here. Loads of lurkers signing up since I introduced restricted viewing, all the stats are at an all time high with loads of newbies.

[The Saint]

Yup, the PL Home Articles. For the record, I've never heard anyone have an issue with Kevshat, CzechPunter or SteveO who also write articles. I've never even met CP for the record. Cliquey in what way Saint?:unsure

Sorry Paul - will come back ASAP.

[Tedthewolf]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers PL's Horse Racing Article Writers .....and all the other sport articles in that section. I am talking about all of it not any one person that is in it. Don't like it at all IMO it dilutes the forum big style. What i liked about PL in particular ATR was that everyone was together and so many different ranges Fav backer, fav layers, people who backed outsiders, people who backed outsiders & and favs, we had serious punters. fun punters, weekend punters. pro punters some give short reasoning some give long reasoning and on the whole we got along fine and a good vibe about, every respected each other so why have this new section? to ME it looks like a special section for some why? we don't need it not only that why put part of there write ups in the daily thread? Really don't get it for me it comes across as two classes now where before we were all together. The new section comes across as the main part of PL to me.

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

PL's Horse Racing Article Writers .....and all the other sport articles in that section. I am talking about all of it not any one person that is in it. Don't like it at all IMO it dilutes the forum big style.

Dilutes the forum how? All the articles are posted on the forum.

What i liked about PL in particular ATR was that everyone was together and so many different ranges Fav backer, fav layers, people who backed outsiders, people who backed outsiders & and favs, we had serious punters. fun punters, weekend punters. pro punters some give short reasoning some give long reasoning and on the whole we got along fine and a good vibe about, every respected each other so why have this new section? to ME it looks like a special section for some why? we don't need it not only that why put part of there write ups in the daily thread? Really don't get it for me it comes across as two classes now where before we were all together. The new section comes across as the main part of PL to me.

The main part of PL? The forum gets tons more traffic than the rest of the surrounding site. Why did I create it? Well, everything evolves and you move with the times or you start slipping behind and so far behind that it's a mountain to get back up alongside. The forum is a very different animal to the rest of PL, google demands fresh content or you can forget about ranking well and if we don't rank well, we suffer financially and that affects everything, future development, everything. It's vital and it actually brings in new members via that route. I do things for a reason, because it's needed to progress. Regarding the "special" tag you're putting on it, I can only assume you're referring to who has been chosen to write for the site? They're not special, and they have deadlines to meet and a certain quality that must be adhered to. They all post their articles on the forum, so I just don't understand why you would want to close down part of a site, that brings in traffic, when the same articles are going on the forum anyway?

[BillyHills]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers Someone been talking about me in my absence?:lol Ted, with respect i think your paranoid about the whole thing. The articles are nothing 'special' as you call it, its just a couple of posts on the big races each week mingled in with the other daily posts. How can that be diluting the forum. Its not like they are done by strangers, or have a separate thread or anything, on purpose Paul has chosen regular faces to include them to add some content to the threads which have been quite light since the summer in the Racing section and elsewhere. Even you went missing for a while, we need to keep the traffic moving, no sinister goings on and you never know some other people may enjoy my ramblings from time to time.

[BillyHills]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers Sorry Paul beat me to it:\ I'll get back to work now!

[mowgli77]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

PL's Horse Racing Article Writers .....and all the other sport articles in that section. I am talking about all of it not any one person that is in it. Don't like it at all IMO it dilutes the forum big style. What i liked about PL in particular ATR was that everyone was together and so many different ranges Fav backer, fav layers, people who backed outsiders, people who backed outsiders & and favs, we had serious punters. fun punters, weekend punters. pro punters some give short reasoning some give long reasoning and on the whole we got along fine and a good vibe about, every respected each other so why have this new section? to ME it looks like a special section for some why? we don't need it not only that why put part of there write ups in the daily thread? Really don't get it for me it comes across as two classes now where before we were all together. The new section comes across as the main part of PL to me.

It was a completely separate site until Paul merged them. There was freebetsgalore, sports punter and punterslounge. PL now has a homepage from which you can access the forum but I'd imagine many will just have the forum as a bookmark. Billyhills and Me still post in other threads, still get involved in discussions etc, have a look at who started the jockey thread or the daily chat thread for proof. I also post other selections when I am just mentioning one horse rather than a whole race, check the Breeders Cup threads as an example there. Only part of the article goes in the thread with a link to the rest of it as Paul explained you can't have duplicate content on the front page and in the forum, think it's to do with google hits. I can speak for both me and Billyhills and say we both put a lot of time and effort into those articles, regardless of anyone reads them or not. Have a look at the times they are often put up live on the site. I spend all Friday evening just researching and writing around 2-4 articles and never get to bed before midnight. For me it is more about the writing than the selection at the end and gives an idea of how I see a race going. Why are they needed? Paul is running a business. I know the forum is free to sign up to but this site and the others he has merged is his way of making a living, whether it be through advertising or through punters clicking links and joining a bookies via punterslounge, hence why there are links with the articles for people to sign up if they like what they have read and are persuaded to join to have a bet. I don't really see how these can be classed as punterslounge running a "tipping service" when no one is asked for any money. No one is trying to fleece people on here for "inside info", "tips" etc etc. I have posted on this forum since 2005 and always put a lot of info in my posts even back then. I made the effort from the beginning but that was for one selection rather than covering a whole race. Paul decided he wanted some people to write articles and it is up to him who he asks. He needed to know he could rely on the articles being done on time and that they were not going to be half a page long with a lack of content. It doesn't suddenly mean there are 2 parts to Punterslounge, it's an extra revenue stream for Paul and another way of bringing traffic to the site, especially around Cheltenham Festival time or the Grand National. The articles are one persons opinion of a race, punters can choose to read it or ignore it. It's extra content for someone to consider and should really be used to back up your own opinion. Just the same way as other articles are someones opinion of a footy match, boxing match, tennis match etc etc. It's clear that some people are offended that they were never asked to be the article writers but that is an issue they need to raise with Paul.

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers Just want to clarify something in what Mowgli posted above. Of course I personally earn money from this site, but I couldn't stress highly enough of how little that actually is and how much is spent on development of the whole site and it's network sites too. I make sure lots of cash is reinvested, so we can have a fantastic Punters Lounge and a great network backing it up, something we haven't been great at in the past, but we're miles better these days. More improvements to come and more additional tools etc... in the pipeline. The work never ends! :sad

[mowgli77]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

Just want to clarify something in what Mowgli posted above. Of course I personally earn money from this site, but I couldn't stress highly enough of how little that actually is and how much is spent on development of the whole site and it's network sites too. I make sure lots of cash is reinvested, so we can have a fantastic Punters Lounge and a great network backing it up, something we haven't been great at in the past, but we're miles better these days. More improvements to come and more additional tools etc... in the pipeline. The work never ends! :sad

Do you want me to cancel that Ferrari you ordered and the caviar? :lol On a serious note if anyone has ever attended a PL raceday they will tell you how much Paul subsidises the whole thing. Aidymac attended for the first time last year and drank his body weight in beer (that's a lot of beer :p). We pay £35 for races, coach, bar, buffet, karaoke disco etc, absolute bargain and the money we pay probably doesn't even cover the bar bill.

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

Do you want me to cancel that Ferrari you ordered and the caviar? :lol On a serious note if anyone has ever attended a PL raceday they will tell you how much Paul subsidises the whole thing. Aidymac attended for the first time last year and drank his body weight in beer (that's a lot of beer :p). We pay £35 for races, coach, bar, buffet, karaoke disco etc, absolute bargain and the money we pay probably doesn't even cover the bar bill.

Not even remotely close. :ok

[The Saint]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

Yup, the PL Home Articles. For the record, I've never heard anyone have an issue with Kevshat, CzechPunter or SteveO who also write articles. I've never even met CP for the record. Cliquey in what way Saint?:unsure

Sorry about that. I think alot of what I might have said Bowles has subsequently covered. I was only pre-empting what Ted may have been thinking and he has posted since - I have to say, I do have some sympathy with him but if I say anything that you perceive as harmful to the forum then please DO delete it. Regardless of Ted's thoughts, I think that any New Punter who wanted to learn more about racing or anything else would be put off by the average level of knowledge. I'm arrogant enough not to suffer from this but if I was new to the game I would be very reluctant to get involved. I don't have a solution unfortunatly. I absolutely 100% do think that the forum is too much based on 'tipping'. Alot of people this evening have said they don't follow others tips but nearly every thread has them. I think more disscussion on a race would be helpful and more importantly disscussions on beting strategy(I know there is a strategy section but with respect, it is swarming with mathemeticians who are very intimidating for a novice!) or phychology are more relevent and vital to making the game pay. I have started a number of threads this year that have produced helpful discussion but they are soon swallowed up by tipping threads so people that come across the site in order to learn are left bemused and maybe move on. As for a so called 'clique', there are only maybe 50 regular poster in HR. I think it comes across as very cliquey when posters use others posters first names for example or someone like Erhaab (who I very often don't agree with) is rounded upon!! Now just because I believe he is wrong on occassion, I do think the way in which some things are discussed are perhaps a touch aggressive and not attractive for new posters. I myself am probably quite blunt sometimes, don't tend to suffer fools and I say what I think. I can see how this might come across as aggressive on occassion too. Having not yet experienced a PL raceday or Poker whatever, they could also increase the illusion of a clique - it's incredibly intimidating for a complete newbie when friendships have been established I would imagine. I do need to point out again - this is not what I think - I am just trying to see it from others potential point of view. As for the Home Posts, I have only ever read the horse racing ones as I have a direct link to the HR pages. I didn't realise that the forum wasn't the 'home' page as such and do see Ted's point of view. I suppose as long as you are confident that people are finding the forum then all good - I do think it should possibly be easier to find than 6 tabs across on the home page though - it's almost as if it's not the most important thing. I'm assuming it is? I know times change. TO BE CLEAR, I have exchanged emails with Mowgli and BH and find them both to be very knowlegable and complete gentleman. However, and maybe because I didn't have a clue what was going on(!) the first time I clocked the extended home posts I did think, who's arse do you have to kiss to write these bad boys up!!?! To be fair, they are generally very good pieces but I can see how Ted and others might percieve them as being 'special' or different from the forum posts in general. I also appreciate that the site needs to turn a profit (presumably) so whilst I appreciate the need for links with Bookmakers and advertsing it's not a relationship that sits comfortably with me considering my constant battle with them trying to get a bet on at all at the prices they advertise, closed accounts etc etc. Ahem.... I think I've gone way, way off topic - delete what isn't helpful Paul - seriously!! Just food for thought - I'm thinking and typing without planning this particularly well!!

[Tedthewolf]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers Told ya i would get slaughtered:\ 'it's clear that some people are offended that they were never asked to be the article writers but that is an issue they need to raise with Paul" If this is aimed at me i can tell you 100% i not offended in any way if i was i would confront Paul here direct and not through PM as i have always posted my thought/opinions direct here for all to see and will continue to do so as long as im here but that is a pretty low comment to make in a discussion thread. Let me repeat myself it not just the racing tips/article in that section its all of it IMO it takes the gloss off the forum. Nothing wrong with the articles i wouldn't be capable of such good pieces by all i have no trouble admitting that but for me they would be better in the daily threads. No one is disputing the time and effort that goes into producing them or indeed the work put in on the forum,i and other do greatly appreciate it. I said special section is not special people. "Even you went missing for a while" ~ I bet you :cryevery day i wasn't there BH :D

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers Oh Ted, you are funny! :lol They are in the daily threads. Sorry Ted, I just don't think you understand the bigger picture - that's not patronising, it's just if you don't understand after what I replied with, then you never will. Let's jog on... Saint, You're mad, I'll reply tomorrow. ;)

[The Saint]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

Oh Ted, you are funny! :lol They are in the daily threads. Sorry Ted, I just don't think you understand the bigger picture - that's not patronising, it's just if you don't understand after what I replied with, then you never will. Let's jog on... Saint, You're mad, I'll reply tomorrow. ;)

Why do I feel like I'm about to get canned!!!?:spank & not in a good way:(! I think I might stay in bed! :zzz:sad

[Aidymac]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers Ted, sorry mate, your way too paranoid about stuff. It is like watching The People v The Politicians, you think PL are an enemy by your posts mate. Can people not see the good in this place? Not only is it a superb forum, it mentally stabilises people, like meeeeeee. :lol Mowgles, i did not drink 16 stone of beer, how dare you incinuate that. :lol All jokes aside, and i'm sure Paul won't mind me saying this. The bar bill ALONE at the PL do 2012 was around £5,000, all out of Mr Ross's pocket. He loves this place, he loves the people that make this place a success, stop looking for negatives folks. Ted, ever been to a raceday?

[mowgli77]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

Told ya i would get slaughtered:\ 'it's clear that some people are offended that they were never asked to be the article writers but that is an issue they need to raise with Paul" If this is aimed at me i can tell you 100% i not offended in any way if i was i would confront Paul here direct and not through PM as i have always posted my thought/opinions direct here for all to see and will continue to do so as long as im here but that is a pretty low comment to make in a discussion thread. Let me repeat myself it not just the racing tips/article in that section its all of it IMO it takes the gloss off the forum. Nothing wrong with the articles i wouldn't be capable of such good pieces by all i have no trouble admitting that but for me they would be better in the daily threads. No one is disputing the time and effort that goes into producing them or indeed the work put in on the forum,i and other do greatly appreciate it. I said special section is not special people. "Even you went missing for a while" ~ I bet you :cryevery day i wasn't there BH :D

It wasn't aimed at you Ted, it's an issue that has rumbled on for a while. The various sports articles are posted in threads across the forum but with links to the front page.

[BillyHills]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

"Even you went missing for a while" ~ I bet you

every day i wasn't there BH

Always missed your tip on Brandywell Boy everytime it ran mate, think the bloody thing won the other day! Consider yourself slaughtered :lol

[markmywords]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers Where are these sections you all talk of? I have only entered the daily racing forum and sometimes system/personal.

[BillyHills]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers http://www.punterslounge.com or Click PL Home at the top of the page and the articles are in the middle under latest betting news:ok

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: PL's Horse Racing Article Writers

Sorry about that. I think alot of what I might have said Bowles has subsequently covered. I was only pre-empting what Ted may have been thinking and he has posted since - I have to say, I do have some sympathy with him but if I say anything that you perceive as harmful to the forum then please DO delete it. Regardless of Ted's thoughts, I think that any New Punter who wanted to learn more about racing or anything else would be put off by the average level of knowledge. I'm arrogant enough not to suffer from this but if I was new to the game I would be very reluctant to get involved. I don't have a solution unfortunatly.

Isn't that always the case with forums though? I think a lot of newbies get involved, but some will feel like they can't match what has already been said for sure, but it's not about matching, it's about posting your thoughts and becoming a better punter.

I absolutely 100% do think that the forum is too much based on 'tipping'. Alot of people this evening have said they don't follow others tips but nearly every thread has them. I think more disscussion on a race would be helpful and more importantly disscussions on beting strategy(I know there is a strategy section but with respect, it is swarming with mathemeticians who are very intimidating for a novice!) or phychology are more relevent and vital to making the game pay. I have started a number of threads this year that have produced helpful discussion but they are soon swallowed up by tipping threads so people that come across the site in order to learn are left bemused and maybe move on.

It's a betting forum though, what did you expect?:lol You can discuss till the cows come home but you only have to look out some general chat threads to see how they can go on forever, because we all have different opinions. PL has always been about post your opinions and if you disagree with someone else's, then state why and you can decide whether to leave it there or carry it on, it's tipping and discussion and we're the best betting forum out there when it comes to this or anything else for that matter. ;)

As for a so called 'clique', there are only maybe 50 regular poster in HR. I think it comes across as very cliquey when posters use others posters first names for example or someone like Erhaab (who I very often don't agree with) is rounded upon!! Now just because I believe he is wrong on occassion, I do think the way in which some things are discussed are perhaps a touch aggressive and not attractive for new posters.

"Only" 50 regulars. :lol I'd say that's a very healthy number, how many do you think there should be? Haven't seen anything to do with Erhaab, so I'd need an example.

I myself am probably quite blunt sometimes, don't tend to suffer fools and I say what I think. I can see how this might come across as aggressive on occassion too. Having not yet experienced a PL raceday or Poker whatever, they could also increase the illusion of a clique - it's incredibly intimidating for a complete newbie when friendships have been established I would imagine. I do need to point out again - this is not what I think - I am just trying to see it from others potential point of view.

Here's that word again, please go and look that word up and get its full meaning, because it's the one of the most overused and misunderstood words and just doesn't apply and any newbie that has been to a Raceday will tell you that. If someone has that perception, then I can only put it down to a lack of confidence to put yourself in a Raceday as a newbie. However, the welcome that you get and in particular I give to newbies is very strategic like, I absolutely make sure I make time for them and introduce them to the others, but all done in a relaxed manor. You certainly wouldn't know I was "The Boss" for example, in fact I've heard countless times at Racedays and Poker days, that they didn't even know who I was. :lol It's just people generally don't like to put themselves in new situations, but you don't learn anything or create new opportunities and friends if you don't. ;)

As for the Home Posts, I have only ever read the horse racing ones as I have a direct link to the HR pages. I didn't realise that the forum wasn't the 'home' page as such and do see Ted's point of view. I suppose as long as you are confident that people are finding the forum then all good - I do think it should possibly be easier to find than 6 tabs across on the home page though - it's almost as if it's not the most important thing. I'm assuming it is? I know times change. TO BE CLEAR, I have exchanged emails with Mowgli and BH and find them both to be very knowlegable and complete gentleman. However, and maybe because I didn't have a clue what was going on(!) the first time I clocked the extended home posts I did think, who's arse do you have to kiss to write these bad boys up!!?! To be fair, they are generally very good pieces but I can see how Ted and others might percieve them as being 'special' or different from the forum posts in general.

The articles will be appearing on the right sidebar soon enough, just a few things ahead of it in the pipeline at the moment. I could have gone outside of PL to get writers and do for some sites I have, but there's no arse kissing going on. I hardly speak to BH or Mowgli, they login, upload their articles and that's it. What I see in this aspect is envy from a select minority of members (not saying you btw), as to why they were chosen. Well I chose them because they have the time to do it, they have the knowledge and they have grammar skills that aren't of a 5 year old. The way some people write on forums makes me cringe, it's shocking and that is the single biggest factor in how I pick writers, along with their general quality and reliability.

I also appreciate that the site needs to turn a profit (presumably) so whilst I appreciate the need for links with Bookmakers and advertsing it's not a relationship that sits comfortably with me considering my constant battle with them trying to get a bet on at all at the prices they advertise, closed accounts etc etc.

Welcome to the real world, it works far differently than the PC brigade would ever want it to. ;) The hosting costs alone (without other expenses) for PL are 4 figures per month.

Ahem.... I think I've gone way, way off topic - delete what isn't helpful Paul - seriously!! Just food for thought - I'm thinking and typing without planning this particularly well!!

Yeah jog on! ;);) One thing I have learned in my time at PL is, you are never going to please everyone. Along with the mods I make logical decisions on how this site should progress and there's no doubt we get most of those right, otherwise PL wouldn't have come as far as it has since Ollie sold the site to me 8 years ago.