Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

[cpo]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies There will be no questioning Frankel if he does to Nathaniel and Cirrus what he did to the Juddmonte field

[bowles10]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies guys Nathaniel is improving and would at least take Frankel on we will never though as it wont ever happen and its shame Nathaniel didnt run in the Juddmonte Joe, yep connections are scared away by Frankel so we end up with 7 or 8 horses running against Frankel all year and he can beat them all standing on his head for me i was excited by the horse last year but this year i remain bored by it all I have nothing against the horse and havent said in any of my posts that i have although the replies seem to indicate i dont rate it. Its the best horse for the last 2 years no doubt and will be one of the best ever. Perhaps i need to go back and see what Dancing brave beat to achieve a higher rating of 141 which surprises people but was similar as had an amazing turn of foot anyway my dad has a ticket to see it so he is looking forward to it!

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Isn't Nathanial going for the Champion Stakes??? Against Frankel? They probably won't, but still a small possibilty?

[bowles10]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Isn't Nathanial going for the Champion Stakes??? Against Frankel?

its in the race aidy yes if it gets there, i was worried when they pulled it last week they will be 1-2 in the race guaranteed and i think Buick would get the horse to give Frankel a decent race i will be lookng at the distance markets i expect hoping the bookies get carried away with Frankel !!

[TheRat]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Think Nathaniels best trip is 1m 4 though but yes looks like Champion with Cirrus too. Some race in store there. I really like Nathaniel, he is my work desktop background! But he has been unlucky I think not running in the Derby (don't think connections thought he was ready at the time), not running in the Arc when conditions were ideal and a few other opportunities missed or ground not right, he needs a bit of cut

[BillyHills]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Rob who exactly do you want Frankel to beat to excite you? Your witnessing the best horse in your lifetime, enjoy it for fcuks sake, if different class is boring then what about Big Bucks for the last 4 years! Think your out of touch with the flat game, obvioulsy you didnt even know Nathaniel was due to run next week. You should have been at York and see the crowds around the pre-parade ring never mind the paddock!, I've seen Kauto and Big Bucks at Cheltenham and it wasnt like that, it did surprise me to be honest but this horse is anything you like but he's not boring mate.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies I don't think anyone is suggesting Frankel is not top class , the way he beats the same inferior opposition time and time again is boring . Had he raced in the Arc against Europes best horses then that would have been exciting. As for Big Bucks he's simply the best in his division , NH doesn't have the same international flavour as the flat season , so we can't really say he's avoiding any particular opponents.

[The Saint]

I'm purposely not aiming this at any one person but the utter stupidity shown on here sometimes really let's the forum down. Yes - its about opinions etc and everyone is entitled to one I kno but Ffs - some of this clap trap is clueless.... The BEST horse u will ever see stayed in training at 4 - and still people are complaining!!! He can only beat what's put in front of him. If he hadn't been about Excelebration would Be celebrated as a multiple Grop One Winner yet Frankel Anhialates him every time They meet... Stud fees are massive - the horse has been trained brilliantly... Upped in distance at exacty the right time too... If Frankel We're yours, with the prospect of millions in stud fees, would u risk Injury and potential Defeat running in a bog in France. This subject is boring!! Frankel Certainly Isn't! There are plenty of races to bet on - just enjoy him While He's running Ffs...

[erhaab1965]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Who's complaining and what utter stupidity and clap trap is clueless? The fact Frankel has gone for the easy option is the connections perogative and also based on potential stud fees which they don't want to risk by having him defeated , most of us understand this on here. As a horse racing fan we want to see the best horses in the best races , why would you cite injury and running in a bog reasons for not running in the Arc ? Its not like there is a higher risk of injury running in that particular race and how can you call it a bog , the going description varys from year to year , wasn't it good when Sea The Stars won it ? If he retires next week , there will be endless debates as to whether he would have stayed 1m4f. If I owned him with bank balance with a dozen digits , I'd have gone to the Arc followed by the Breeders Cup and taken on the world best. If he gets beat , so what , he's still the same horse .

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies His stud value would drop when beaten though if the bubble was burst, like Camelot post St Leger. He was mentioned in the same breath as Nijinsky before Doncaster and now he has been knocked quite a bit. Personally I had been skeptical about Frankel until seeing him win on the snaff at York. They asked a question upping him in trip and the response was breathtaking. Far, far more exciting than watch one-paced plodders running down fences and impeding each other in my opinion (no offence jumps boys!).

[bowles10]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies i wasnt going to go on here to make comparisons against what the difference is between watching the likes of Istabraq win his Champion Hurdles, Big Bucks win endless races on the bounce and 4 world hurdles at the festival, Kauto star winning a fifth King George etc etc and although i wasnt there, the atmopsphere that day apparently was unbelievable. They are 2 completely different codes and you can only beat what is put in front of you and frankel is wiping the floor with all of them. The horse is a Freak, a once in a lifetime horse, the last one rated higher was Dancing brave nearly 30 years ago whom i saw finish up in the Derby it should have won, poor old greville! I wouldnt have ran it in the Arc either, as the gam is not for what the fans want, its what the owner and trainer know and believe will be the best for the horse. The jury will be out if the horse would stay over 12f and no one can comment on that as it hasnt been proved. If Nathaniel does turn up at Ascot, i will be watching as i said, thats a race i would like to see.FRankel will beat it but i think Nathaniel would give it a fright. My opinion that is, and certainly entitled to it on here. my original post was about the flat season in general which i said i found boring this year. Out of touch with racing, yep i can say i am all due to the fact i have lost interest in this flat season once again. My highlights are few and far between this year and looking forward to the winter game, my preference Good luck all, back tomorow with some trends hopefully on Newmarket second leg of the autumn double

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Who's complaining and what utter stupidity and clap trap is clueless? The fact Frankel has gone for the easy option is the connections perogative and also based on potential stud fees which they don't want to risk by having him defeated , most of us understand this on here. As a horse racing fan we want to see the best horses in the best races , why would you cite injury and running in a bog reasons for not running in the Arc ? Its not like there is a higher risk of injury running in that particular race and how can you call it a bog , the going description varys from year to year , wasn't it good when Sea The Stars won it ? If he retires next week , there will be endless debates as to whether he would have stayed 1m4f. If I owned him with bank balance with a dozen digits , I'd have gone to the Arc followed by the Breeders Cup and taken on the world best. If he gets beat , so what , he's still the same horse .

So you think running in a bog, Frankel could not get injured? You do realise they could have easily just sent Frankel off to stud as a 3 year old and nobody would see any more of him, and he would be making millions and millions? Yet they persist on showing the world his capabilities. In my opinion they are unsure that he will stay 1m 4f, so why should they risk it just for the sake of unappreciative people like yourself? It has won by a total margin of 74.5 lengths in 13 races in Group 1's, still on the bridle at the line, that is average of nearly 6 lengths a race, which is incredible. People like you don't even deserve to watch him run, your disrespect for the horse and racing in general is disgraceful. If he won over 1m 4f on the bridle, you would want him to run over 2 miles.......... FFS he has already proven to be the best in the world over 7f, 1m and 1m2f, the freak has nothing to prove to anybody.

[BillyHills]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Skipping the Arc had nothing to do with the ground or the trip, the race next week is simply the richest prize in British racing and was always on the agenda, it was simply too close to the Arc. Khalid Abdullah has always said he wanted to support the Qipco series, now whether that has some other financial gain i'm not sure. Champions Day is our Breeders Cup and Cecil has always wanted to support the industry here in Britain, just look at how many runners he has kept here over the years rather than mop up races in Canada and the States like some do. If you had a chance of winning that kind of race in front of a sell out crowd as a swan song then i reckon you would take it. The Arc is simply too rough a race to risk and look how many surprises we get in that race, wonder why? Now whether they should go to America is another question, must be tempting!

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies All this talk of Frankel has got me all...........

[Chaostheorie]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

take the arc as a race, pacemakers should be banned how are they legal in the rules of racing?

And how should this be handled? Restrict every stable to one horse per race? That is BS and without Pacemakers there would be a lot more of boring races. Some horses need a fast pace to show their best performance.

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies If anything, there should be more pacemakers used (in the races lacking one). The form is unreliable when the field go a crawl, everything finishes in a heap and there is a sprint finish. Slowly run form is always treated with caution. Form with a solid pace, is much more reliable and trustworthy.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

So you think running in a bog, Frankel could not get injured? You do realise they could have easily just sent Frankel off to stud as a 3 year old and nobody would see any more of him, and he would be making millions and millions? Yet they persist on showing the world his capabilities. In my opinion they are unsure that he will stay 1m 4f, so why should they risk it just for the sake of unappreciative people like yourself? If it was a bog then they wouldn't run him , but to use that as an excuse not to run is lame. They're not running him over further because the connections don't want to risk the horse losing for their benefit not the horse. It has won by a total margin of 74.5 lengths in 13 races in Group 1's, still on the bridle at the line, that is average of nearly 6 lengths a race, which is incredible. People like you don't even deserve to watch him run, your disrespect for the horse and racing in general is disgraceful. Nobody is disputing his efforts or abilities , I and many others would have liked to see him tested to his limits. Why don't people like me deserve not to watch him run ? Where do I disrespect the horse and racing , why do you use the word disgraceful ? I'm sure there are many thousands who would agree with my point of view. If he won over 1m 4f on the bridle, you would want him to run over 2 miles.......... FFS he has already proven to be the best in the world over 7f, 1m and 1m2f, the freak has nothing to prove to anybody. He hasn't beaten the world best , just a small selection of the UK and European horses which aren't good enough. Why would I want him to try 2 miles , that's just a silly suggestion. Isn't racing all about opinions ? What wrong with alternative views ? Remember last year we had a disagreement , but the roles we took were the opposite we are taking now. You wanted a pro jockey aboard Long Run whereas I said its the owners horse and he can do what he likes and have whichever jockey he likes.

...

[BKI Punter]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies lol @ anyone still debating Frankel's pound for pound form with other horses. You're wasting your own time. He's simply a unique beast that is able to do everything so much more easily than anything else, end of. Everything that has ever tried laying it down to him have finished well beaten - please don't think they 'weren't right on the day' - Excelebration in the Queen Anne for instance. The only time he was close to being beaten was because the jockey decided to set sail over FOUR FURLONGS from the finish. Held up in 4th, shaken up and chased clear leader 5f out, closed on leader and led entering final 3f, 6 lengths clear 2f out, soon ridden, coming back to field quickly final 100yds, always holding on but all out near finish, ridden out Regarding the question of 1m4f, the horse would have got it as a 3yo. Easily. As I said before, you don't win soft ground maidens over a mile on the bridle as a 2yo if you lack stamina.

[bowles10]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

And how should this be handled? Restrict every stable to one horse per race? That is BS and without Pacemakers there would be a lot more of boring races. Some horses need a fast pace to show their best performance.

No what has a stable got to do with it? Are you saying stables run horses owneed by others as pacemakers for others? How weird would that be!! Dear sr, thanks for spending £2k a month on training fees, we are running this weekend in a group 1 as a pacemaker to give another horse a chance of winning. You said my quote was BS ha! and the rules of racing allow pacemakers to run, why do bookies price them up, so they can still take money on a no hoper if they cant set a pace then something is wrong with the flat racing code, we dont have them in handicpas so why group races, i am sure i will be shot down again but it seems ludicrous to me.

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

No what has a stable got to do with it? Are you saying stables run horses owneed by others as pacemakers for others? How weird would that be!! Dear sr, thanks for spending £2k a month on training fees, we are running this weekend in a group 1 as a pacemaker to give another horse a chance of winning. You said my quote was BS ha! and the rules of racing allow pacemakers to run, why do bookies price them up, so they can still take money on a no hoper if they cant set a pace then something is wrong with the flat racing code, we dont have them in handicpas so why group races, i am sure i will be shot down again but it seems ludicrous to me.

We have seen plenty of Aidan O'Brien's pacemakers win in the past.

[EyeNoAgain]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies I have finally got down to reading this thread and do think that it has been very rude of people to hijack it and to change the subject matter completely. Whilst reading about the original issue, I was confused. I have been a punter for over 50 years and to me 'the field is the favourite and always has been. I have heard the expression used many, many times at racecourses and greyhound tracks. The expression 'bar the field' means bar the favourite. My main dictionary. the Compact Oxford English Dictionary gives a definition, 'all the particpants in a contest or sport'. To my mind, PP were careless with the bet and should refund the stake. As for different treatment of customers it should be remembered that each individual in the 'care centres' has a degree of flexibility and the approach of differing customers will be different. Thus, to my mind there is no argument here. Maybe one guy was on a promise for that evening and it reflected in his treatment of an individual issue. One other point that I have noted is that somewhere someone seems to have given the impression that betfair are particularly good on customer care. This is completely at odds with my own experience as I have found them to be arrogant, even equalling the appalling attitude of Ladbrokes. It would be interesting to know the final outcome of negotiations.

[LoveNorthernRacing]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies I have had an account with Ladbrokes for a number of years and have always found their Customer Service to be friendly and fair, I'd go as far to say that I think they have very good customer service. Only firm I have had an issue with is BetVictor their rep was kind of rude, so I just stopped using them.

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Just to update, I was still getting nowhere with their reps, who kept providing generic responses. I filed with IBAS so hope to hear back soon.

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Got a letter back from IBAS yesterday, IBAS have sided with Paddypower. To quickly summarise IBAS' conclusions, I, being a punter, broke one of the golden rules of betting in that I didn't fully understand the market I was betting in. Paddypower provided data on the market to show the various perms you could have backed in each race, IBAS felt that was sufficient to justify Paddypower's use of the term the field to mean all runners except the other three. Disappointed to lose a 'moral battle' and still think Paddypower are a set of cooonts, but in this instance respect IBAS' decision. I always find I perform best when I have an axe to grind though, and Paddypower are certainly going to be the bookie of choice when the day arrives for that life changing multi! My lesson to other punters, based on this and other experiences with special markets - simply don't bother with them. Its hard to get proper stakes on anyway, and even if you do spot a price that is out of line, the bookies cry palpable error or hide behind non-existant T & C's to worm their way out of paying out. Stick to singles and the odd double as the best way of smashing their back doors in!

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Stick to Win or E/w bets in the future Fint, i have a pal who always took up the free bets with most bookmakers when Cheltenham came around, it always ended in tears. Two things for you to Remember in life Mate - ''The Big print giveth, but the small print taketh away'' Mind and pull up your pants when the Bookie has finished with you.

[whoneedsrio]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Just on a slightly different point about what bookies get away with I've been studying the Doncaster card tomorrow because I'm going. I was looking at the card on the Timeform site earlier, about 8pm I think it was & noted that in the 3.50 the Noseda trained Livery was now a non runner on that site & Betfair had taken it out of their markets. It's also down as doubtful on the Racing Post website but not a non runner & I've just gone on oddschecker & low & behold Livery is in blue to indicate it is shortening but then again so is most of the rest of the field. Livery is generally now 4/1 which means when it comes out officially tomorrow the bookies can do a rule 4 of 20p instead of the 15p if it was 9/2 & they've shortened up the rest of them as well knowing Livery won't run. A similar thing happened to me earlier this year, I had a bet up but there was a non runner, I checked the time of the withdrawal & price & the non runner was taken out at 11.10am, six minutes earlier the price had been cut from 12/1 to 9/1 which made it a 10p deduction instead of 5p. Again the betting public is being shafted but if we get one over on them it's suspicious betting patterns etc. Is there any point in flagging this up? I doubt it, nothing would get done. Rio.

[whoneedsrio]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Sure enough having looked just now Livery is a non runner. When I posted last evening the best book overound on oddschecker was showing 134%, without Livery who was a general 4/1 (20%) it is now at 124%. Rio.

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Crafty swines, Rio, never thought to look for that before. I know Weatherby's send out an email to all of the racing press (and presumably bookies?) whenever there is a non-runner, but there are differences between the times then listed on Oddchecker for example. For example, Mehdi was a NR at Donc today, Weatherby's sent the email out 10 mins before that listed on Oddschecker, Carnac in the 6.40 at Wolverhampton, the email was sent 6 mins before that listed on Oddchecker (not saying these two were shortened up plenty, as both were actually outsiders I believe and prob no rule 4 was inflicted, but I just mention them to give an example of the timing delay). It would be nice to think that the time listed on Oddschecker, Betfair etc should be that at which time everyone was notified, but it looks like this isnt the case then from the examples you provide.

[whoneedsrio]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies The time wasn't on oddschecker before I went out today but is now & it says that Livery was taken out at 09.02 this morning. However it has occurred to me have a look on the BHA site & it was declared a non runner yesterday at 16.43, the reason being a bad scope. Around six hours later just before I went to bed about 11pm & it's still in the betting with the bookies & cut to 4/1 but Betfair & the Racing post know it's a non runner. I think I'm going to start keeping an eye out for this & if I can get a few more examples I'll flag it up to the powers that be. Rio.

[whoneedsrio]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies I've just been reading David Carr's blog on the RP site & someone's posted a comment at the bottom that they had placed a bet with Ladbrokes yesterday at 10/3 & that the horse had won at 9/2 but they had been paid out at 100/30. It seems that the best odds guarantee now only applies after midday & the person in question had struck the bet in the morning. I've just looked & that's what Ladbrokes are stating on their site to be fair, it's just something to be aware of. I note that oddschecker have removed the little BOG symbol from above the Ladbrokes logo on their site & that Stan James are now offering BOG again having stopped doing so a while back. Rio.