Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Your a winner already. Get that image, the image of my chat where they said they don't offer "the field" betting, and off you go to IBAS, your a certain winner, they don't have a leg to stand on. They made a balls of the odds, and in realising their mistake tried to trick you out of your bet........ I will also stop betting with Powers after this, i always regarded them as a very good bookmakers until this, i am actually shocked! "The Field" has 1 meaning, and 1 meaning only, and it is every other runner bar the favourite, always has been.

The thing which upsets me is that before this I would have probably ranked Paddypower up there with Hills and Bet 365 as being one of my best bookies. Ive never had problems with them in the past, theyre prompt paying out, offer a wide range of markets, take a decent bet, and offer best odds guaranteed. But the way the handle the complaints is a joke. Its ok to pick up the phone quickly and to respond to live chat very quickly, but there is no substance in the content, just passed around as someone elses problem (worse than an Orange Indian call centre). Then they arent even being consistent in the way they are settling the same bet for different customers. One mate has got his stake back, me and another mate havent etc. Sorry, I'll stop bleating on now, its not a great amount of money being disputed but my frustration is the culmination of the whole racing bookies in general. If only Pinnacle did racing betting..........

[shogun25]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Chancer!!,expecting 10/1 double for 2 favs to get beat,equals 3/1 each.Wish i could get those odds,and probably so does every punter living,then again reality"is a lot different to your dreamland.

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Chancer!!' date='expecting 10/1 double for 2 favs to get beat,equals 3/1 each.Wish i could get those odds,and probably so does every punter living,then again reality"is a lot different to your dreamland.[/quote'] Think you should double check your maths as a double on two 3/1 shots pays 15/1 not 10/1....but thats besides the point. Bookies do make mistakes from time to time, unfortunately punters dont have a leg on when they try exploit them, bookies always find a way of worming their way out of paying out - "palpable error" is often the excuse given. In this case it isn't a palpable error, it was confusion over the selections covered in my bet, but if Paddypower cared to explain the market properly, either with details on the market page, or with some clarification in their general betting rules, any confusion could be avoided. Sadly, they provided neither, hence the dispute.

[mowgli77]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies I see it as a balls up and unclear rules that they should just admit was badly worded in that case and give you your stake back with an apology. If it was a 10 runner race for example and you backed the field against the fav you'd expect to have 9 horses running for you. If they are stating it was the fav, 2nd fav and 3rd fav then it should read "the favourites v the field", a plural to suggest that it is more than one horse coupled as favourites. I don't think it matters about the stake and whether it was pounds or pence, it's about the principle of it all. I don't know if this still happens but it used to annoy me that bookies would have a "fixed odds" coupon for the footy markets on a weekend that was brought out midweek. By the time you picked it up on a Saturday it had pen marks all over where they had crossed out and adjusted their so called "fixed odds". Not exactly fixed odds if they keep changing them are they?

[whoneedsrio]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

I see it as a balls up and unclear rules that they should just admit was badly worded in that case and give you your stake back with an apology.

That's how I see it which is why I think Fin should keep on their case.

I don't know if this still happens but it used to annoy me that bookies would have a "fixed odds" coupon for the footy markets on a weekend that was brought out midweek. By the time you picked it up on a Saturday it had pen marks all over where they had crossed out and adjusted their so called "fixed odds". Not exactly fixed odds if they keep changing them are they?

The term "Fixed odds" comes from when the bookies started to produce a football coupon in competition to the football pools. They always had it in their rules to change the odds & still do but not after you had placed your bet at which point the price was fixed unlike the pools where you had to & still do wait for the dividend to be declared. It's an example of where something can mean not quite what it suggests & which can change as time passes, for instance if you were to say "That chap over there looks gay" then at one time you'd just be saying he looks happy but not any more. Rio.

[mattmcandrew]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Like I said earlier, I work for Paddy Power and even I haven't heard of such a demented and broad use of the word "field". It has only ever had one meaning. That said, the odds of 10/1 was disproportionate and the alarm bells would have been ringing before I put that bet on. Sadly one Paddy employee's grammatical error and inability to understand basic betting terms like "the field" will never win in a battle against the mightly dollar. Sad but true.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Are you sure it was worded "...Fav against the field ...." ?

[erhaab1965]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

yep extremely boring a wonder horse no doubt but boring as fcuk IMO

Totally agree , why didn't they send Frankel to the Arc ?....chicken....?

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Are you sure it was worded "...Fav against the field ...." ?

Well it wasn't worded "Bar the top 3".. It was just worded "The Field". The field means everything bar the favourite. They don't have a leg to stand on.

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies I do accept it was perhaps a bit naive on my part to expect 10/1 for the bet, but they've used a common racing term, the field, so it is understandable how confusion can have arisen. If there had just been bets from one race it might have been clearer, but on their page they had all of the various permutations, so you could back one horse in one race and 'the field' in the rest etc. As others have said, use of the term 'rest of the field' would have been more appropriate. What I find interesting is that of the three people I know that have placed the same bet to same stakes, one has already had their stake refunded. Is that not an admission of guilt over the lack of clarity on Paddy's part? Me and my other mate are still being refused refunds by them though - and this inconsistency is unacceptable IMO - treat all of your customers the same, but don't hand out preferential treatment to individuals when the cases proposed by all are the same. Interestingly, a respected PL member has contacted me via PM and said they had issues with lack of information on the PP site earlier in the year, and were paid out after the end of their investigation, so it shows PP have 'previous' with this sort of thing.

[TheBoyRooney]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Totally agree ' date=' why didn't they send Frankel to the Arc ?....chicken....?[/quote'] By that logic why didnt usain bolt run in the 800m at the olympics.Was he chicken? Why didnt they run Kauto star in the arc ,chicken? Why didnt they run frankel in the monaco grand prix? chicken? I do agree that flat racing is boring as hell though.But for punting its my favourite.

[BillyHills]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Aidy, dont get too hacked off with PP just because of this one bet you have heard about, as Fin said before this he thought they were one of the better firms. I could tell you stories about every bookie out there, you just dont hear of them, even the mighty beftair dont have a great record in customer services. As for the bet in question i have sympathy with punters who maybe have been mislead and dont blame Fin for taking his case further, didnt see the wording so wont make a judgement. I find it interesting that Fin said it was a silly impulse bet yet he and two others all backed it suggesting it was more of seeing a price that was obviously wrong and it didnt come off. Good luck anyway, they usually pay out if you try hard enough, at Hills we were told to pay out on most bets if they were challenged to avoid losing customers, used to do my head in to be honest!

[bowles10]

They wouldn't risk it in the arc when it can have another easy race beating horses it is 12lbs clear of At least sea the stars took them all on I see Exeter is on today and Cheltenham in 2 weeks thank god

[erhaab1965]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

By that logic why didnt usain bolt run in the 800m at the olympics.Was he chicken? Why didnt they run Kauto star in the arc ,chicken? Why didnt they run frankel in the monaco grand prix? chicken? I do agree that flat racing is boring as hell though.But for punting its my favourite.

Your analogies are a quite off the mark . Frankel's older and younger siblings have both won black type over 1m4f , so asking him to do the extra 300 odd yards from 1m2f to 1m4f is very possibly within his compass. Using your Usain Bolt analogy / logic you are suggesting Frankel goes from 1m2f to 10 miles based on Bolts 100 meters or 5 miles based on his 200 meters performance . Where as my Bolt analogy would suggest Bolt goes from 100 meters to approx 120 meters. I stand by my chicken statement , as Bowles 10 said at least Sea The Stars took them all on.

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Guys, Frankel does not have to prove anything to anyone. We all know he would win the Arc doing handstands, money is no object, they care for the welfare of the horse, they certainly are not "chicken".. How about you give Sir Henry credit for keeping the welfare of the horse the paramount priority. If he won the Arc, you would want him to go to the USA and win there, ye'r never happy.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Who knows whether Frankel would have won the Arc doing handstands ? Its a question that will forever burn if he is to retire after next weeks stroll in the park. How can not going for the Arc be considered "...keeping the welfare of the horse the paramount priority..."? , what about the other UK challengers ? Frankel hasn't displayed any travel problems in the past has he ?

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Who knows whether Frankel would have won the Arc doing handstands ? Its a question that will forever burn if he is to retire after next weeks stroll in the park. How can not going for the Arc be considered "...keeping the welfare of the horse the paramount priority..."? , what about the other UK challengers ? Frankel hasn't displayed any travel problems in the past has he ?

Right, you own Frankel. He has 1 race left. The Arc has been known to be a graveyard for class horses. The track has false straights, loose ground and there is always a complete lack of pace in French races. They want him to win his last race on home soil, in front of the crown that have cheered him through his whole career. Why should the best horse of all time, best British horse, have to end his career in France? The owner can do whatever the hell he likes with Frankel, that is first and foremost. And any decision he makes, he does it for a reason. I am sure they considered the Arc, but for whatever reason it didn't happen. That does not make Frankel less of a horse. Most top class horses have been known to be rushed off to stud after winning 1 Group 1, yet Prince Khalid let Frankel run past his Classic season to allow the British puplic view probably the best horse ever, that we should be grateful for. Let's also put the Arc into context. Camelot went off favourite, that is how weak the Arc was. He has raced against far better opposition in the UK, Excelebration, Dream Ahead, Canford Cliffs etc are all top class Group 1 performers, and quite simply, the Arc was one of the weakest i have ever seen, so even if he won the Arc, people would say "What did he beat"? I say, let the British public celebrate Frankel's final day on a racecourse, and fook the begrudgers!

[TheBoyRooney]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Your analogies are a quite off the mark . Frankel's older and younger siblings have both won black type over 1m4f , so asking him to do the extra 300 odd yards from 1m2f to 1m4f is very possibly within his compass. Using your Usain Bolt analogy / logic you are suggesting Frankel goes from 1m2f to 10 miles based on Bolts 100 meters or 5 miles based on his 200 meters performance . Where as my Bolt analogy would suggest Bolt goes from 100 meters to approx 120 meters. I stand by my chicken statement , as Bowles 10 said at least Sea The Stars took them all on.

you missed the point.Any way USAIN BOLT also runs 200m,so your figures are pointless.The point is USAIN BOLT would not attempt to run 800m as he is entering unknowns and the likehood he is he will be beat as other factors kick in such as pace and stanima,tatics and such.his father could have been a 800m world champion but thats not the point.He could run the 800m and lose but hes still the greatest sprinter of all time.so whats the point? Connections have never once attempted to run Frankel 12f yet you think they should have ran it in one of the most difficult 12f races of all The Arc first time at the distance?Clearly they dont beleive that the horse can do that trip/

[BillyHills]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies I bet connections wished they had missed the Leger with Camelot, got sucked in by all the media hype something that Mr Cecil never allows thank god. Everyone said Camelot would stay 1m6f easily but he never and now they are talking of 10f races for him next season. I know he was brave enough to have a go but sometimes you have to do whats best for the horse and not please keyboard warriors on internet forums who obviously know better than the connections it seems.

[nickf88]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Right, you own Frankel. He has 1 race left. The Arc has been known to be a graveyard for class horses. The track has false straights, loose ground and there is always a complete lack of pace in French races. They want him to win his last race on home soil, in front of the crown that have cheered him through his whole career. Why should the best horse of all time, best British horse, have to end his career in France? The owner can do whatever the hell he likes with Frankel, that is first and foremost. And any decision he makes, he does it for a reason. I am sure they considered the Arc, but for whatever reason it didn't happen. That does not make Frankel less of a horse. Most top class horses have been known to be rushed off to stud after winning 1 Group 1, yet Prince Khalid let Frankel run past his Classic season to allow the British puplic view probably the best horse ever, that we should be grateful for. Let's also put the Arc into context. Camelot went off favourite, that is how weak the Arc was. He has raced against far better opposition in the UK, Excelebration, Dream Ahead, Canford Cliffs etc are all top class Group 1 performers, and quite simply, the Arc was one of the weakest i have ever seen, so even if he won the Arc, people would say "What did he beat"? I say, let the British public celebrate Frankel's final day on a racecourse, and fook the begrudgers!

Couldn't have said it better myself Aidy, absolutely spot on!

[bowles10]

There will always be an argument about where horses should go next but is frankel the best ever ? I suppose it's how you enjoy a race I must admit as I said I found frankels recent runs a bit boring but the problem is the standard of opposition and the crop was limited as it often is I was blown away by the guineas win though It's like football if a team won 5-0 every week it's boring but if they win 4-3 it's exciting I

[TheRat]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Frankels form has been franked time and time again

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

There will always be an argument about where horses should go next but is frankel the best ever ? I suppose it's how you enjoy a race I must admit as I said I found frankels recent runs a bit boring but the problem is the standard of opposition and the crop was limited as it often is I was blown away by the guineas win though It's like football if a team won 5-0 every week it's boring but if they win 4-3 it's exciting I

Ya, the opposition was crap. It only beat Exclebration by 11 lengths eased down in the Queen Anne. Excelebration only went on to hack up in the Jacqes Le Marois the race after, a very tough Group 1 race. Watching Frankel is one of the most exciting things i have ever experienced. If you don't experience it, i question your admiration and passion for horse racing.

[bowles10]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Ya, the opposition was crap. It only beat Exclebration by 11 lengths eased down in the Queen Anne. Excelebration only went on to hack up in the Jacqes Le Marois the race after, a very tough Group 1 race. Watching Frankel is one of the most exciting things i have ever experienced. If you don't experience it, i question your admiration and passion for horse racing.

and side glance was only a neck away in 3rd in the Queen Anne, !! i dont think it quite hacked up in the group 1 in France, it beat Cityscape now a 6yo by 1.75L in what i recall was a decent finish with a few still in with a chance. Cityscape best win came off a mark of 121 and excelebration best rating came at the curragh in a group3 (126) so its entitled to beat the likes of cityscape to be fair. Frankel now rated 140 is therefore entitled to slaughter Excelebration time and time again as its now a mismatch off level weights. Did we ever see excelebration take Frankel on and try different tactics, no it chased it home obviously thinking there was no point and waited for 1 race they could win in France when the odds were fully in its favour back to side glance rated 113 when 3rd to frankel so again there was something amiss with excelebrations run that day, it should have finished much further in front of side glance than it did. I believe excelebration wasnt right that day and those stats back that up. what else ran in the Queen anne, bullet train, windsor palace, indomito, red jazz and possibly the biggest disappointment of the season strong suit. For me Frankel winning by 11L was no surprise as this was a poor field for a Group 1 at the royal meeting. I am not picking holes in its form but just answering your point about 2 races in question. there is a reason why connections didnt go to france and thats because thye want to win all the QIPCO races this year which no doubt carries bonuses (?) btW frankel beat Farhh i the 4 runner sussex stakes (only 4 runners, so where were the challengers, as i say possibly a poor crop of 4yo's this year) and Farhh best win rating is 100!!! Frankel beat it 6L it should have beaten it half the track!! Ok Farhh is rated around 122 but 6L was a stroll in the park. As i say to round up its a pity the opposition hasnt been better then i would still have the passion that i have when it comes to the NH game

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Bowles, Frankel's win in the Juddmonte was unbelievable. If you can't see the turn of foot the horse has, and can;t see how it went from last to first in a matter of strides still on the bridle, then i don't know what would satisfy you. Everyone was giving out that it had not been stepped up in trip. Well they stepped him up in trip, and he put in his best performance yet. He was immense, no horse on the planet would live with him with his acceleration, speed and power. It has destroyed Group 1 horses for the past couple of years, yet you want to go on and on saying it beat nothing, i am actually quite angry listening to such tripe. Aidan O'Brien himself stated that Frankel is just an unbelievable horse, and there was nothing wrong with Excelebration in the Juddmonte, it was just completely outclassed. And in Excelebrations win in France, yes it won by 1.75 lengths, but did you watch the race? It was heavily eased at the finish, could have won by 4 lengths easily. You keep going on about what it beat, it is the manner in which it beat the opposition which is so devastating. I am quite certain Sea The Stars would not be able to live with Frankel over 1 mile or 1m2f.

[TheRat]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies In his maiden he beat Nathaniel - King George and Eclipse winner, also Colour Vision Gold Cup winner, even Genius BEast Grp 3 winner etc Dewhurst beat Irish 2000 winner and Dream Ahead 5 time Grp 1 winner Battered multiple Grp 1 winner Canford Cliffs, and Excelebration, 2 time Group 1 winner Immortal Verse Etc etc. Say what you want about his campaign, but you cannot fault his form at all. As if running him in the Arc on that ground would have been a good idea anyway He's not even just beating these bar a few races, he's killing them Thing is as well, the Champion Stakes looks like it could be the race of the season

[bowles10]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies aidy i dont think you should be angry at my comments, i am providing an alternative view of what i feel, i have more passion for horse racing than most have in thier little fingers so now you refer to the Juddmonte where it beat St Nicholas abbey and Farhh, the rest were also rans, so it was a 3 runner race in the end and they came 1-2-3. Again, that farhh horse gets well beat, again i state that the ratings show it should be well beat by Frankel so its just an obviious result for me, hence why i appear bored with all this. does anyone else get it that if you race against horses inferior to you by 18-20lbs you effectively cant lose. If only there was a horse rated within 5lb of frankel then we might see a race aka Canford cliffs and i will leave you with one. Frankel v Nathaniel over 1m 2f, that would be some race!!! That would make me sit up and watch and Frankel would have it all to do.

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

aiden he beat Nathaniel - King George and Eclipse winner, also Colour Vision Gold Cup winner, even Genius BEast Grp 3 winner etc Dewhurst beat Irish 2000 winner and Dream Ahead 5 time Grp 1 winner Battered multiple Grp 1 winner Canford Cliffs, and Excelebration, 2 time Group 1 winner Immortal Verse Etc etc. Say what you want about his campaign, but you cannot fault his form at all. As if running him in the Arc on that ground would have been a good idea anyway He's not even just beating these bar a few races, he's killing them

I think even killing is an injustice. Pulverise? :lol And we will see the same in it's finale, i can not wait!

[TheRat]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

does anyone else get it that if you race against horses inferior to you by 18-20lbs you effectively cant lose. If only there was a horse rated within 5lb of frankel then we might see a race aka Canford cliffs and i will leave you with one.

What you have to take into account as well though is that Frankel being in the races also scares away opposition. It's not up to connections of him who turns up for his targets

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

aidy i dont think you should be angry at my comments, i am providing an alternative view of what i feel, i have more passion for horse racing than most have in thier little fingers so now you refer to the Juddmonte where it beat St Nicholas abbey and Farhh, the rest were also rans, so it was a 3 runner race in the end and they came 1-2-3. Again, that farhh horse gets well beat, again i state that the ratings show it should be well beat by Frankel so its just an obviious result for me, hence why i appear bored with all this. does anyone else get it that if you race against horses inferior to you by 18-20lbs you effectively cant lose. If only there was a horse rated within 5lb of frankel then we might see a race aka Canford cliffs and i will leave you with one. Frankel v Nathaniel over 1m 2f, that would be some race!!! That would make me sit up and watch and Frankel would have it all to do.

:lol Frankel would have it all to do? If i rode Frankel, it would still beat Nathaniel. I also personally think Snow Fairy is a better horse than Nathaniel.