Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

[fintron]

This whole game stinks. The bookies market themselves as big boys but the reality is that they are a set of gutless traders, that squirm their way out of any potential liability they ever stood to stand. There is no accountability for any bad opinions or mistakes they make, if their odds compilers make a mistake they hide behind a whole host of excuses to get out of paying customers what they are owed.

[nickf88]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Read this earlier and now I've just had it happen to me. My luck at the moment can only be described as laughable and after having a small each way bet on Rafella in the 5:40 at Leicester, stands still in the stalls and never wants to run. They only let it run and of course the bookies take that as a run despite never ever being in comtention and trotting to the line as it should. Seen it happen to others in the past and always thought it was disgusting, not just because its happened to me.

[markmywords]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Not the bookies this one but the handlers worked wonders to get some horse in on a 15 horse race. I instantly thought if that was a 8 horse race it would have been a non-runner thinks like that in the game I dislike.

[TheRat]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies What happened or was this a general rant? As for a horse refusing, that is part of the race and you don't deserve a refund in my opinion. Should the winner be subject to a rule 4 as a result? No What I do hate is consistency which was highlighted last week when bookies looked for maximum publicity by refunding bets on Snow Fairy and Danedream then a few hours later not doing the same for Nathaniel. Also refunding bets on runners who refuse, but when one of mine refuses after a monster gamble (Monshak), nothing. Like I said I don't expect it but in that case don't refund anything. It all of course boils down to liability. Some bookies were refunding Danedream saying it was exceptional circumstances, well its not in my opinion, it is just another danger of ante post betting.

[The Saint]

This whole game stinks. The bookies market themselves as big boys but the reality is that they are a set of gutless traders' date=' that squirm their way out of any potential liability they ever stood to stand. There is no accountability for any bad opinions or mistakes they make, if their odds compilers make a mistake they hide behind a whole host of excuses to get out of paying customers what they are owed.[/quote'] What's happened m8?

[Kithanga]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

This whole game stinks. The bookies market themselves as big boys but the reality is that they are a set of gutless traders' date=' that squirm their way out of any potential liability they ever stood to stand. There is no accountability for any bad opinions or mistakes they make, if their odds compilers make a mistake they hide behind a whole host of excuses to get out of paying customers what they are owed.[/quote'] I agree it's very frustrating at times. I tell other people who bet what they are like and show them screen prints of refused and limited bets that I have on my phone. It surprises them and I know at least a couple of them have moved their bets onto the exchanges as a result. Spread the word as customer feedback in any business alters behaviours eventually (when the profits are impacted sufficiently)

[bowles10]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies not sure what you refer to Wayne but the game hasnt changed too much, it was always bent and we shouldnt expect anything different I always lose interest in the flat after july and cant wait for the jumps to start, these lads who prefer the flat obviously like watching paint dry its so boring YAAAAAAWWNNN

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

not sure what you refer to Wayne but the game hasnt changed too much, it was always bent and we shouldnt expect anything different I always lose interest in the flat after july and cant wait for the jumps to start, these lads who prefer the flat obviously like watching paint dry its so boring YAAAAAAWWNNN

So watching Frankel is boring?

[bowles10]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

So watching Frankel is boring?

yep extremely boring a wonder horse no doubt but boring as fcuk IMO

[bowles10]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies take the arc as a race, pacemakers should be banned how are they legal in the rules of racing?

[cpo]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies I have always preferred the flat to the jumps but have to admit this year I can't wait for the jumps to start. The flat season has definitely lacked something for me this season.

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

What's happened m8?

Paddypower, nearer to the start of races, put up a tab on their racecards, for 'extra markets'. Within those extra markets there are options to back favourites or 'the field' against the favourites. I placed a bet yesterday on 'the field' to win the 2.20 at Brighton and 'the field' to win the 2.30 at Catterick, the odds listed were 10/1 for an 'across the cards double bet'. The favourites were Evens and 7/4 so I thought it was a good bet backing the rest of the field against those two favourites. Both favourites were beaten, the first was second, in the second race, the favourite was unplaced. I then logged back into my Paddypower account to see the bet has been settled as a loser. I have spoken to one of their reps on the phone, after three attempts via live chat went nowhere, and 20 hours after the race had ended, was finally told that the field does not include everything but the fav, it actually includes everything but the favourite, the second favourite and the third favourite. This is not made clear on the market page, since there are no rules and no links to anything in the bet slip after the bet has been placed. In betting, the field generally means everything but the favourite, but apparently not in this case. It took them 20 hours to clear this up, disgraceful customer service. To make matters worse, I was aware than I was booked for a 10/1 winner after the first race was over, so covered my position by backing the favourite in the second race. So not only am I worse off for getting screwed by Paddypower, I also lose my position covering bet on the second race. I am taking matters to IBAS because I believe Paddypower took a stand, were wrong, but are failing to be accountable for that opinion. This isn't a palpable error (how many times do the bookies churn that excuse out) and never have Paddypower said it was a genuine rick on the part of their traders. There is a lack of clarity in these markets they are offering and they are shafting punters, hiding behind all these false terms that are not even listed on the main screen. Just for the record, it wasn't even a lifechanging amount, it was a poxy £200 I stood to win. They are an embarrassment to Ireland, just like their pathetic cousins, Boylesports, who regard £1 E/W as a dangerous stake.

[The Saint]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Paddypower, nearer to the start of races, put up a tab on their racecards, for 'extra markets'. Within those extra markets there are options to back favourites or 'the field' against the favourites. I placed a bet yesterday on 'the field' to win the 2.20 at Brighton and 'the field' to win the 2.30 at Catterick, the odds listed were 10/1 for an 'across the cards double bet'. The favourites were Evens and 7/4 so I thought it was a good bet backing the rest of the field against those two favourites. So based on this, a fair price for 'the field' would only be around 2/1 - so in one respect, you had spotted one of the bets of the season. Maybe a case of that if something looks to good to be true then it probably is?! I guess the question is the Bookmakers use of the term 'the field'. I think you are quite correct in your assumption that the field is a commonly used term to describe every runner except the favourite. EG. 2/1, the field... Both favourites were beaten, the first was second, in the second race, the favourite was unplaced. I then logged back into my Paddypower account to see the bet has been settled as a loser. I have spoken to one of their reps on the phone, after three attempts via live chat went nowhere, and 20 hours after the race had ended, was finally told that the field does not include everything but the fav, it actually includes everything but the favourite, the second favourite and the third favourite. This is not made clear on the market page, since there are no rules and no links to anything in the bet slip after the bet has been placed. Then I don't think they have a leg to stand on to be honest - they can't/shouldn't use horse racing terms such as 'the field' and then not clearly show their rules if they change the commonly used meaning of the word. In betting, the field generally means everything but the favourite, but apparently not in this case. It took them 20 hours to clear this up, disgraceful customer service. Trading Room/Market Makers not talking to Customer Service - Standard :wall To make matters worse, I was aware than I was booked for a 10/1 winner after the first race was over, so covered my position by backing the favourite in the second race. So not only am I worse off for getting screwed by Paddypower, I also lose my position covering bet on the second race. Trying to explain this to someone in Customer Service.... I don't envy you. Basically, you've done the professional thing and their error has cost you even more money. I am taking matters to IBAS because I believe Paddypower took a stand, were wrong, but are failing to be accountable for that opinion. This isn't a palpable error (how many times do the bookies churn that excuse out) and never have Paddypower said it was a genuine rick on the part of their traders. There is a lack of clarity in these markets they are offering and they are shafting punters, hiding behind all these false terms that are not even listed on the main screen. Honestly - I don't think they took a stand as such - the maths don't bear that theory out. I DO FEEL that they have either made a mistake with the odds or more likely have failed to display the rules clearly and effectively on the page whilst utilising a commonly known racing term in the wrong way. I think the fairest outcome would be that all bets are voided - you certainly shouldn't have to stomach 2 losers in my humble opinion. Just for the record, it wasn't even a lifechanging amount, it was a poxy £200 I stood to win. They are an embarrassment to Ireland, just like their pathetic cousins, Boylesports, who regard £1 E/W as a dangerous stake. Boylesports - ha ha ha ha ha!!!! What a joke outfit. Bookmakers, bookmakers - I've practically given up with them and I'm not sure why they get so stoutly defended on here on occassion. It's got to the point where I consider it prudent not to pile into 365 and the like when they are clearly out of line with what the BSP is likely to be. They went 11/4 last night on Sunpass and I had to sit on my hands as betting at this price would have led to an inevitable account closure... I'm wasting my breath/fingers!! Best of Luck with IBAS - I am sure you will recover your stake and hopefully some winnings on top of that too.:ok

Wibble, wibble, I am a Teapot!!! (apparently my message was too short.....) Am trying something outside of the quotation....

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

yep extremely boring a wonder horse no doubt but boring as fcuk IMO

Oh dear!

[mattmcandrew]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies I work for Paddy ;-)

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Thanks for your reply Saint, I have asked Paddypower to send me a copy of their Horse Racing T & C's, which they have, and nowhere in there does it cover this sort of bet where they are betting 'the field' against favourites. I am not sure whether this strengthens or weakens my case when it comes to filling in the IBAS form tonight?

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Thanks for your reply Saint, I have asked Paddypower to send me a copy of their Horse Racing T & C's, which they have, and nowhere in there does it cover this sort of bet where they are betting 'the field' against favourites. I am not sure whether this strengthens or weakens my case when it comes to filling in the IBAS form tonight?

Could you post a screenshot of the bet mate? Would like to see this for myself, because "The Field" means everything bar the favourite as far as i am concerned.

[The Saint]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Thanks for your reply Saint, I have asked Paddypower to send me a copy of their Horse Racing T & C's, which they have, and nowhere in there does it cover this sort of bet where they are betting 'the field' against favourites. I am not sure whether this strengthens or weakens my case when it comes to filling in the IBAS form tonight?

Definatly in your favour I would say. As long as your sure that the rules weren't displayed on the page where you placed the bet your case looks alot stronger now... Were there prices for the Fav, 2nd Fav, 3rd Fav and 'the field' displayed? If there were.... I'd be inclined to accept my stake back and any gratia payment offered... Just through my experience with IBAS. It would definatly be fairer and more prudent on their part to use the term, 'the rest' rather than the field regardless of the outcome of this particular case. Good Luck with it.

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies I decided to have a chat with a representative. She said they don't offer "The Field" markets. I have not found the field markets on the site myself either. They have a W/O market for races, that seems to be it.

[The Saint]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

I decided to have a chat with a representative. She said they don't offer "The Field" markets. I have not found the field markets on the site myself either. They have a W/O market for races, that seems to be it.

I suspect they have aborted the bet on the back of Fintron's 'experience' yesterday..... In other news, my 2 bets today mange to trade at lows of 1.09 and 1.55 before getting beat...... BIG FCUKING BOLLOX!!!! Ha ha!! :wall

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

I suspect they have aborted the bet on the back of Fintron's 'experience' yesterday..... In other news, my 2 bets today mange to trade at lows of 1.09 and 1.55 before getting beat...... BIG FCUKING BOLLOX!!!! Ha ha!! :wall

Seems like it........ If he can show his case to IBAS, and show this screenshot along with it, it would make him a sure winner.

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Could you post a screenshot of the bet mate? Would like to see this for myself' date=' because "The Field" means everything bar the favourite as far as i am concerned.[/quote'] Dont have an imaging package on my work pc but will post up my betslip tonight, yeah

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies They are not offering the same bets today by the look of it. Do you know on their pages for each race, where they have tabs for 'tote' 'fore/tricast' etc, well a tab used to appear called 'extra markets' and you had to click into that to access the bet I did yesterday. There were a whole host of other options but they covered horses in the catterick and brighton races so, with no clarification of definitions, it was all a bit messy

[Kithanga]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies Fin, Surely they would hold details of the bet on the betslip? Otherwise if its not in the terms and not on the betslip how can they settle it either way? I've had a dispute solved in my favour once with another bookie and found that they only backed down once I formally asked them to provide all the data they held on me on all of their computer systems, live and test in line with the data protection act. It would cost me only £10 under the rules of the act and they'd have a small period of time to respond. Working in IT I suspected they'd struggle to do this at a cost less than the disputed amount - it's a nightmare and they may not even have the procedures in place to begin to know how to comply. Hey presto, they changed their mind and paid me out! K

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Could you post a screenshot of the bet mate? Would like to see this for myself' date=' because "The Field" means everything bar the favourite as far as i am concerned.[/quote'] Ive uploaded it on Image Shack here Aidy.... http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/ppreceipt.jpg/

[whoneedsrio]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies The term "the field" in my experience is all the runners, hence you would hear the cry on track for example "5/4 the field" which would mean the shortest price on the bookies board, the favourite was 5/4. You don't hear this as much these days, probably because they tend to have their heads stuck in the back of their joint watching their liability on betfair rather than doing what their name implies & making a book. Anyway out of interest I googled "Racing term, the field" & found this on what appears to be an American site.

Field - 1) All the runners in a race. 2) Some sportsbooks or bookmakers may well group all the outsiders in a competition under the banner headline of 'Field' and put it head to head with the favorite. This is known as favorite vs the field betting and is common in horse and golf betting.

Reading number 2 I would say that you have a very good case. Having not seen this bet offered before, then again I haven't been looking for it, I suspect that it's something new that Paddy Power have introduced & they haven't really gone into it but based on the 10/1 the double that you mention then I suspect that they were including the 1,2,3 in the betting. Which thinking about it though opens up another can of worms, what are the first three in the betting? What happens if, as in a hell of a lot of cases you have joint first, second or third favourites & end up with more than three? Play holy hell, at the very least if they have not displayed the terms of the bet you want a refund of stake. Rio.

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Fin, Surely they would hold details of the bet on the betslip? Otherwise if its not in the terms and not on the betslip how can they settle it either way? I've had a dispute solved in my favour once with another bookie and found that they only backed down once I formally asked them to provide all the data they held on me on all of their computer systems, live and test in line with the data protection act. It would cost me only £10 under the rules of the act and they'd have a small period of time to respond. Working in IT I suspected they'd struggle to do this at a cost less than the disputed amount - it's a nightmare and they may not even have the procedures in place to begin to know how to comply. Hey presto, they changed their mind and paid me out! K

Hi K, just posted a link to my betslip above. There is no link to any rules relating to the market on the slip, nor is there any reference to this market in their general horse racing terms and conditions. Now one of their representatives has explained the situation with the second and third favs I can at least now understand how they priced my 'the field' selection at 10/1. It still annoys me though how unclear they've been on the market on their page in the first place and, as Saint says above, have almost refined a common betting term ('the field'). The fact it took them 20 hours to respond to me almost makes me think theyve been making up their answers as they go along (also, one of my mates who made the same bet has had his stake returned now, the other has been left in limbo....inconsistency all on the same bet and stakes). I've filed to IBAS tonight but am just gonna forget about it now. I've lost £70 quid on a daft impulse bet and Ive probably got my account now linked to few of my friends who placed the same bet, but these situations are always handy for identifying the next bookmaking target for the next gamble...just need our dog to get back to full fitness now!!!!

[fintron]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

The term "the field" in my experience is all the runners, hence you would hear the cry on track for example "5/4 the field" which would mean the shortest price on the bookies board, the favourite was 5/4. You don't hear this as much these days, probably because they tend to have their heads stuck in the back of their joint watching their liability on betfair rather than doing what their name implies & making a book. Anyway out of interest I googled "Racing term, the field" & found this on what appears to be an American site. Reading number 2 I would say that you have a very good case. Having not seen this bet offered before, then again I haven't been looking for it, I suspect that it's something new that Paddy Power have introduced & they haven't really gone into it but based on the 10/1 the double that you mention then I suspect that they were including the 1,2,3 in the betting. Which thinking about it though opens up another can of worms, what are the first three in the betting? What happens if, as in a hell of a lot of cases you have joint first, second or third favourites & end up with more than three? Play holy hell, at the very least if they have not displayed the terms of the bet you want a refund of stake. Rio.

I got an email back for them Rio and they have clarified the possible bet options in these markets:

"These were the available selections for the field versus market: 2:30 Catterick, 9 OCT 2012 - Star Request, Iwilsayzisonlyonce, Twilight Pearl, The Field 2.20 Brighton, 9 OCT 2012 - Nenge Mboko, Davids Secret, Spanish Art, The Field"

Part of the problem I think is that because these were 'across the card doubles' there were various permutations of those above selections as betting options. If it had just been one race you can sort of do your own book to work out the percentages can't you, but with it being a double I just assumed that it was one of those silly specials that they do from time to time. They are sticking to their line and saying that they wont refund my stake. This is even though a friend placed the same bet and was refunded his stake yesterday (after being given slightly different explantions to me when he called!!)

[Aidymac]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies

Ive uploaded it on Image Shack here Aidy.... http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/ppreceipt.jpg/

Your a winner already. Get that image, the image of my chat where they said they don't offer "the field" betting, and off you go to IBAS, your a certain winner, they don't have a leg to stand on. They made a balls of the odds, and in realising their mistake tried to trick you out of your bet........ I will also stop betting with Powers after this, i always regarded them as a very good bookmakers until this, i am actually shocked! "The Field" has 1 meaning, and 1 meaning only, and it is every other runner bar the favourite, always has been.

[south_eastern_ram]

Re: Sick of being bent over and raped by the bookies It's stuff like this that really makes you hate bookies, they try and squirm there way out of everything any way they can.