A Question & Idea

[BillyHills]

Re: A Question & Idea

It is a good idea though Paul as it worked before when Russ done it some time ago. It wouldn't have to be a mod's job i would happily do it do see if it works again if Russ and the mods were to busy and im sure other ATR members would muck in if push came to shove.

I think its a good idea for non mods to get involved in some admin work, the only thing i always say to anyone accepting a role is that if your going to do it then do it properly or it means nothing. Try listing the winners at the end of the days thread, it may create more replies?

[best mate]

Re: A Question & Idea Over 90 replies in a little over 3 days and all of them sensible (including my own minor observations) and probably more to come. Oh, I think there's plenty life left in this forum.

[Darran]

Re: A Question & Idea

i agree about getting the word out more .......i only found this site by accident too and sometimes its difficult to navigate from the front end site .might have to get 8 tossers to get 2 good uns (but thats like horses really ...lol) with regards to thanks .....if you like someones winners or just enjoyed reading their write up .....a click on the thanks tab underneath is all it takes sometimes .....dont have to post up bananas and stuff and makes them feel it was worth the effort posting

I agree with the thanks thing. I know a few did on the Foxhunter piece which I put up which I thank you for, but I am sure a lot more had read it. It is a simple thing to do and I would say it would encourage more people to post because otherwise you wonder if its worth the effort. Sometimes it takes a thread like this to kick people into gear.

[Tedthewolf]

Re: A Question & Idea Cracking post Lars. Had a bit of a re think on my Charity Thread idea and my thoughts on the way to it has changed a bit. A different sponsor every month remains but a representative from that sponsor competes against a ATR poster (a different ATR poster each month) on each Saturday in that month 1 selection each Sat say £5 win or £2.5 e/w bets paid and put on by sponsor if at the end of the month the ATR player wins with the most profit (must be in the plus) the sponsor has to double it to a charity of players choice or if we have already decide a charity a the start of the month it would be that instead. Each week the sponsor posts he/she can plug his firm/company and if so wishes offer specials on a certain bets only available to PL members with over 50 posts this might bring in some fresh blood. Thread title could be called Charity Beat The sponsor. I like this idea.

[The Saint]

Re: A Question & Idea

Sometimes it takes a thread like this to kick people into gear.

Think this is possibly the most poignant thing said yet. We would all be worse off without PL I am sure. Can I please implor any lurkers to get involved though - As long as your contributions are reasoned it really doesn't matter if they win or lose! It's nice to read as many opinions as possible - even if it's just to silently disagree with them!

[whoneedsrio]

Re: A Question & Idea

Rio, not sure we need anymore competitions to be honest, just because you don't qualify for the monthly prizes by betting on 12 days, i always keep account of every bet posted on the BBOTD for the annual prize and trophy, and we do have yield figures. The PL is not just about the big meetings and Saturdays, we need to keep it ticking along on a wet monday too for other PL reasons which many people don't think of, we have sponsors and stuff that are very interested in visits to the site on the whole. Any site can be busy at Cheltenham, the BBOTD comp gives us a vehicle for the less busy days and it works well, but i would say that wouldn't I?

Fair point about comps but I was just thinking out load & didn't want to pour cold water on Ted's charity idea. The idea I was trying to get across with posting returns was to get threads noticed & people looking in these threads which is what you what, keep the views up & things ticking over. Now with regard to blowing your own trumpet when you have a winner as the footie boys do, great but in the long run what does this mean? Any fool can pick a winner now & again but how does this pan out in the grand scheme of things. Great you've had a winner, break out the dancing banana, am I then going looking in your thread trying to work out if you have any profit in the long term? A thread with the returns shows not just a one off situation but the overall picture & if you look in there & see Fred Bloggs is making a nice profit your going to go & look in Fred's thread. This also may have an added benefit, nothing drives me up the wall more than when you go in someones thread & they put their tips up, sometimes several & not always in the same post & then next day more tips & no running totals be there winners, losers or what & this goes on day after day, sometimes for weeks on end. Then all of a sudden you get an update, I'm not questioning anybodies integrity but who wants to trawl back through umpteen posts to see if they're right? It's lazy, anybody who's even remotely professional keeps their figures upto date. So thinking aloud again, how about starting a thread called something like winners & returns. In here you post up something like this: Winner today Daisy 3.00 Scarbrough beach 10pts @ 4/1 Hardnose & Sons BOG Running totals W/R 4/10 Stakes 100pts Returns 200pts P/L +100pts Yield 100% Thread Fredsbets Anybody looking in can see that Fred's had a nice winner today & is showing a decent profit & is highly likely to go & have a look in Fred's Thread (Wish I'd called him Bert) which is what you, the sponsor's & the one putting in the work want. It has the added bonus of making the lazy buggers keep their running totals up to date because if they don't you say you can't post the winners. You don't need admin because the posters are doing it themselves & you can soon see if someones fiddling because you won't get great gaps between updating the totals in their individual threads & someone would soon cry foul. Rio.

[fintron]

Re: A Question & Idea The site seems to be loading a lot quicker in IE in recent days which is a big thumbs up to the tech team. Good timing with the flat just around the corner.

[mowgli77]

Re: A Question & Idea

Everyone’s who has been to a meet-up knows that people aren’t like that, yeah posters have friends who they hang about with/friends with, that’s life. Hardly a “clique”. :ok

I know what it's like being a newbie at a race meet. When I first went to the York races one about 5 years ago everyone was based in a hotel in Leeds. When I told people I was off to the races with a load of strangers from the internet they thought I was mad. As the lift doors opened at the hotel the rest of the PL'ers were all in the lobby and I was like a rabbit in the headlights. I think a few were new at the time and I spent most of the time with Kevshat, Chala and Punto at the races. I know at the last meet there were a few newbies (Stewartd, Lars, Monty, Jayalexander, maybe some more) and I made the effort to chat with them in the hotel, at the races and back at the karaoke because it can be bloody daunting. I think they would say they were made welcome and although some of us know each other better than others we are all there to have a good few days away. I'd acknowledge that it sometimes feels like posts are ignored and it felt like that for a while when I joined and I feel it is up to all of us, moderators or members to make newbies feel welcome otherwise they'll wonder why they are posting and disappear. Lars - are you coming to the next raceday in April?

[The Saint]

Re: A Question & Idea

Fair point about comps but I was just thinking out load & didn't want to pour cold water on Ted's charity idea. The idea I was trying to get across with posting returns was to get threads noticed & people looking in these threads which is what you what, keep the views up & things ticking over. Now with regard to blowing your own trumpet when you have a winner as the footie boys do, great but in the long run what does this mean? Any fool can pick a winner now & again but how does this pan out in the grand scheme of things. Great you've had a winner, break out the dancing banana, am I then going looking in your thread trying to work out if you have any profit in the long term? A thread with the returns shows not just a one off situation but the overall picture & if you look in there & see Fred Bloggs is making a nice profit your going to go & look in Fred's thread. This also may have an added benefit, nothing drives me up the wall more than when you go in someones thread & they put their tips up, sometimes several & not always in the same post & then next day more tips & no running totals be there winners, losers or what & this goes on day after day, sometimes for weeks on end. Then all of a sudden you get an update, I'm not questioning anybodies integrity but who wants to trawl back through umpteen posts to see if they're right? It's lazy, anybody who's even remotely professional keeps their figures upto date. So thinking aloud again, how about starting a thread called something like winners & returns. In here you post up something like this: Winner today Daisy 3.00 Scarbrough beach 10pts @ 4/1 Hardnose & Sons BOG Running totals W/R 4/10 Stakes 100pts Returns 200pts P/L +100pts Yield 100% Thread Fredsbets Anybody looking in can see that Fred's had a nice winner today & is showing a decent profit & is highly likely to go & have a look in Fred's Thread (Wish I'd called him Bert) which is what you, the sponsor's & the one putting in the work want. It has the added bonus of making the lazy buggers keep their running totals up to date because if they don't you say you can't post the winners. You don't need admin because the posters are doing it themselves & you can soon see if someones fiddling because you won't get great gaps between updating the totals in their individual threads & someone would soon cry foul. Rio.

I think Rio makes a very fair point and it's a major reason I don't read people's threads until after the event for interest... If I was ever to run a thread myself then the biggest problem I would have would be getting my bets on before writing up the tips with reasoning - and then - hoping the price was still available - I find this hard enough with BBOTD so do appreciate that time may well be an issue for some posters. If the price had dropped considerably, I may no longer consider it a decent bet and would not want to 'tip' it at any price.

[BillyHills]

Re: A Question & Idea

nothing drives me up the wall more than when you go in someones thread & they put their tips up, sometimes several & not always in the same post & then next day more tips & no running totals be there winners, losers or what & this goes on day after day, sometimes for weeks on end. Then all of a sudden you get an update, I'm not questioning anybodies integrity but who wants to trawl back through umpteen posts to see if they're right? It's lazy, anybody who's even remotely professional keeps their figures upto date.

Totally agree 100%, you often find updated totals after a decent winner which really bugs me!!

[Lars]

Re: A Question & Idea

I know what it's like being a newbie at a race meet. When I first went to the York races one about 5 years ago everyone was based in a hotel in Leeds. When I told people I was off to the races with a load of strangers from the internet they thought I was mad. As the lift doors opened at the hotel the rest of the PL'ers were all in the lobby and I was like a rabbit in the headlights. I think a few were new at the time and I spent most of the time with Kevshat, Chala and Punto at the races. I know at the last meet there were a few newbies (Stewartd, Lars, Monty, Jayalexander, maybe some more) and I made the effort to chat with them in the hotel, at the races and back at the karaoke because it can be bloody daunting. I think they would say they were made welcome and although some of us know each other better than others we are all there to have a good few days away. I'd acknowledge that it sometimes feels like posts are ignored and it felt like that for a while when I joined and I feel it is up to all of us, moderators or members to make newbies feel welcome otherwise they'll wonder why they are posting and disappear. Lars - are you coming to the next raceday in April?

Yeah I'll be there mate :ok

[richard-westwood]

Re: A Question & Idea

Cracking post Lars. Had a bit of a re think on my Charity Thread idea and my thoughts on the way to it has changed a bit. A different sponsor every month remains but a representative from that sponsor competes against a ATR poster (a different ATR poster each month) on each Saturday in that month 1 selection each Sat say £5 win or £2.5 e/w bets paid and put on by sponsor if at the end of the month the ATR player wins with the most profit (must be in the plus) the sponsor has to double it to a charity of players choice or if we have already decide a charity a the start of the month it would be that instead. Each week the sponsor posts he/she can plug his firm/company and if so wishes offer specials on a certain bets only available to PL members with over 50 posts this might bring in some fresh blood. Thread title could be called Charity Beat The sponsor. I like this idea.

i quite like the charity idea .........i was thinking along the lines of maybe having teams of 5-6 and each team member tackles a different race on a saturday .....best team at the end of the month gets to choose where the charity money goes or something along those lines .....would get people working together and add a bit of fun ......just a thought

[bowles10]

Re: A Question & Idea see some of the ideas are all around bets etc, so will be interesting to see how they develop personally i'd like to see more from members perhaps who have been to the races and what their thoughts are about the experience they had, i.e not after eventing but thoughts on horses to follow and any experiences during the day another thread i really enjoyed doing was the Key Race thread and wished i had kept it up. I always said that any of the members could start the race up but without constant input, it died away into the night. I still think there is a place for that on the forum I notice now a lot more people have turned to twitter therefore they seem to like the fact you only have a certain amount of characters to say your piece, therefore in my eyes we are competing with that like it or not. If i am sitting on twitter for an hour, i can have dialogue with others very quickly whereas we post on here and await a reply or another post. Our racing chat thread sort of picked up on that and i think there is some mileage in continuing that Ive only ever been on this forum so never really looked at any others. I may have a scoot around to see how they are doing anyway. On the mileni/monte situation, both are doing different things in terms of tipping and i believe monte already had a service when he joined but it was free, now he has gone private he has to spend his time wisely. Mileni is from bulgaria and things are different there so he has found a niche and good luck to him. I dont why either of them remain mods still on ATR but thats up to others not me.

[BillyHills]

Re: A Question & Idea

If i am sitting on twitter for an hour

I'm surprised you get the laptop for a full hour Rob:p

[bowles10]

Re: A Question & Idea

I'm surprised you get the laptop for a full hour Rob:p

midnight hour Graham

[mowgli77]

Re: A Question & Idea I had an idea for a team competition a while back, basically a 5 v 5 type competition on a Saturday with 3 very different races - hurdle, chase and aw race during the jumps season then a sprint, a handicap and a group race on a weekend when it was the flat season. My initial idea was that teams would be drawn randomly and then you would discuss the tactics for your team that weekend via PM due to the scoring system, points for wins and places so would a team go for short price horses or outsiders with more risk attached. I didn't follow this through at the time because using PM's to discuss tactics would alienate any new posters as you need at least 50 posts for the PM facility and I didn't want to do that. If people are interested in a fun competition for Saturdays only I could get this up and running as a team game with teams changing weekly and each individual poster tries their best to be on a winning team each week. Could get people to put their names down and then draw teams on Friday evening. I had 2 ideas of doing the entries: A) the team of 5-6 people can only enter 1 horse in each of 3 races and therefore have to discuss the races and decide what horse to go with as a team B) the team get to put an entry in each or maybe 3 horse, therefore deciding how they want to cover the race, maybe a fav and 2 outsiders etc. I'd need some input and ideas for that, not sure how it would work best. Bear in mind I don't want to leave out new members, exactly the opposite, I want them to be involved. Another idea would be a mod v member type competition on a weekend, again just a bit of fun or a winner stays on type of competition between everyone. Winner gets to choose the race for the following Saturday and has to beat their opponent with one or more selections. I liked the idea of 3 very different types of race because it would mean using strengths and weaknesses of your team. Thoughts?

[jtw1]

Re: A Question & Idea

another thread i really enjoyed doing was the Key Race thread and wished i had kept it up. I always said that any of the members could start the race up but without constant input, it died away into the night. I still think there is a place for that on the forum

Well worth trying again with the Key Race thread imo Invite members to post ANY relevant info about the main race on a Saturday be it quotes / betting / stats or just their opinions about the race / runners would do . Could start with the Lincoln next week ?

[bowles10]

Re: A Question & Idea

Well worth trying again with the Key Race thread imo Invite members to post ANY relevant info about the main race on a Saturday be it quotes / betting / stats or just their opinions about the race / runners would do . Could start with the Lincoln next week ?

thoughts from others? we also held an index of these to refer back to also during the season, would b great to start with the lincoln and then pick up the best race of the week normally on the Saturday

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: A Question & Idea

On the mileni/monte situation, both are doing different things in terms of tipping and i believe monte already had a service when he joined but it was free, now he has gone private he has to spend his time wisely. Mileni is from bulgaria and things are different there so he has found a niche and good luck to him. I dont why either of them remain mods still on ATR but thats up to others not me.

Neither are mods anymore.

[Edberg]

Re: A Question & Idea I read it all and it was a very interesting reading. I wish and guess the forum can just improve and what the mods, owner and most of the "aficionados" are doing on daily basis is just an amazing job and I want to thank you all of them one more time. The discussion has been very inspiring and I feel like I owe something to ATR so from today I'm gonna "try" to give a bigger and hopefully better contribution. No big change but just a short analysis of all the daily selections I'm gonna back with their own different stakes and of course will try to keep the stats updated.

[richard-westwood]

Re: A Question & Idea i like the team idea for saturday racing but a) i think teams of 5-6 would argue over 3 races .....the reason i said 5 members to 5 races was to avoid this happening and mods having to sort out grievances .....unless like said above (mowgli i think ) you have some sort of backup selection for each race (2 choices ) and majority vote rules ....final .but i think it could be fun but newbies who are willing to enter and play along should be included with older members .....be nice if even a small sum of money could go to a charity (even a tenner )

[richard-westwood]

Re: A Question & Idea

Well worth trying again with the Key Race thread imo Invite members to post ANY relevant info about the main race on a Saturday be it quotes / betting / stats or just their opinions about the race / runners would do . Could start with the Lincoln next week ?

thats exactly what should be on here .........one place to post all the relevant info on a big race .....as a lot of us like to have a go so having all the info in one place is a godsend and much easier to read !!!even if you dont get many posters sometimes ....it still something that could appeal to many people who just read it and dont post up....i know it interests me immensely

[Tedthewolf]

Re: A Question & Idea If non members couldn't get full access to ATR would this not encourage them to join?

[ExpectTheUnexpected]

Re: A Question & Idea Imo, no. If you want to promote exclusivity, your product must be unique and of a substantially better quality than competitors. While this is a really good forum, forums like betfair's do also exist and can probably offer much similar styles of content. By making it exclusive and requiring people to join, you stop potential members seeing the content of the page first. You wouldn't buy a house without getting a look at it first. Perhaps not quite the same deal, but still. People need assurances that in joining it wouldn't waste their time and it'd be something they enjoyed and wanted to be a member of. In this case, I suppose this is where PL needs to improve - making it exciting to strangers and total newcomers. Studying business and marketing at uni, while only being a student doesn't make me the best qualified, i'm more than happy to try and use what i'm being taught to help out if that's any use at all.

[Tedthewolf]

Re: A Question & Idea Give them (non members) a certain amount of views ie upto 10 a day for example. Like buying a house you can have a look but you cant move in untill you commit! Also you could run comps for new members only with less than 60 posts with a small prize for the winner. Just a thought.

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: A Question & Idea

If non members couldn't get full access to ATR would this not encourage them to join?

I am looking at implementing something like this, I just want to make sure it's done right. :ok

Imo, no. If you want to promote exclusivity, your product must be unique and of a substantially better quality than competitors. While this is a really good forum, forums like betfair's do also exist and can probably offer much similar styles of content. By making it exclusive and requiring people to join, you stop potential members seeing the content of the page first. You wouldn't buy a house without getting a look at it first. Perhaps not quite the same deal, but still. People need assurances that in joining it wouldn't waste their time and it'd be something they enjoyed and wanted to be a member of. In this case, I suppose this is where PL needs to improve - making it exciting to strangers and total newcomers. Studying business and marketing at uni, while only being a student doesn't make me the best qualified, i'm more than happy to try and use what i'm being taught to help out if that's any use at all.

I doubt many people will say Betfair has (or any other betting forum for that matter) the quality of members that PL has. In fact I'd go as far as to say, PL is head and shoulders above all betting forums in terms of quality and without ego too. I look at PL's so called rivals and I honestly see a circus each time I look at their sites. Quality over quantity is the way forward and advertising in the right places. I agree we need to improve, but so does every site or you stand still and then drift backwards, while competitors pass you by. There are plenty of improvements to PL coming, but PL as a whole (not just the forum) is a different league compared to PL only a year ago in my opinion. Development also takes time and money of course. PL is making great strides in development, not only is the forum a vast improvement on the previous one, but www.punterslounge.com is also vastly improved and will have a brand new design in the near future, with features from the forum and PL Tipster League for example. I don't want to mention any of the planned developments, because that just gives other sites advance notice, but I can assure you we are far from standing still. ;)

Give them (non members) a certain amount of views ie upto 10 a day for example. Like buying a house you can have a look but you cant move in untill you commit!

It would be something very similar to this Ted. :ok

Also you could run comps for new members only with less than 60 posts with a small prize for the winner. Just a thought.

Good idea again and something I have written down on one of my many post it notes to implement, but I'd prefer to move away from so many competitions and award contributing members with quality posts. I do have a plan for this and potentially it could work very well, but I can't divulge on the open forum, but rest assured I'm not someone who wants to just sit back and let others catch up. ;)

[south_eastern_ram]

Re: A Question & Idea I used to look on the theracingforum.co.uk from time to time and i liked how they had interviews with prominent figures in the racing world and offered members the chance to ask them questions, maybe something this place could think of doing.

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: A Question & Idea Interesting idea, but you have to remember they are a very specific site at the same time, we are very diverse across all sports. Definitely something I'll keep in mind though and maybe try and introduce later down the line.

[mowgli77]

Re: A Question & Idea

Interesting idea' date=' but you have to remember they are a very specific site at the same time, we are very diverse across all sports. Definitely something I'll keep in mind though and maybe try and introduce later down the line.[/quote'] A guest account could be handy for that. I wonder if the mods or even the members could get a trainer/jockey to do a Q and A on here and they could log in under the guest account that day to answer questions from the PL members.

[south_eastern_ram]

Re: A Question & Idea

A guest account could be handy for that. I wonder if the mods or even the members could get a trainer/jockey to do a Q and A on here and they could log in under the guest account that day to answer questions from the PL members.

I thought of it more that they agreed to do it, start a thread and get a handful of questions from members, email them and they reply. Not sure how viable that would be.