The Jockey Thread

[mowgli77]

Re: The Jockey Thread I don't think Spencer is as bad as people suggest. When you ride like he does (hold up Hollywood style) it always looks worse when it seems like he has a load of horse under him that gets beat in a flashing finish. If he rode them all from the front and faded 1/2 f out he wouldn't get the same criticism. The one thing he does well is give a horse an education, teaches a horse how to go through a gap, how to switch around a field, how to drop in behind runners and go just off the pace, how to conserve energy and how to pass beaten horses. When you ride like that timing has to be perfect, exact precision. I'd agree that Ryan Moore is the best in the business at the minute but young Buick isn't that far behind. Watch the ride on Aiken last season in France, rode them to sleep from the front. Assessed how races are run in France (crawl and sprint), exploited it and took advantage. Some trainers give exact riding plans and others let the jockey decide during the race, maybe that is if they trust their jockey enough to make the correct judgment. There needs to be some flexibility within a race in case it doesn't pan out as planned (no pace) and that will split those jockeys that won't go on and make the running because it is against trainer orders and those that will make that judgment for themselves and possibly lead on a drop in/hold up horse because a crawl and sprint won't suit either. What I did find interesting at the weekend was an interview with Aidan O'Brien when he said the owners wanted them to be more handy with St Nicholas Abbey and stop holding it up so far in races. Those orders had been given to Aidan and passed on to Joseph and turned out to be spot on but how many owners would tell an owner how they want a horse to be ridden and how many leave that down to the trainer to work out?

[robertob]

Re: The Jockey Thread One should no forget one very significant point: O'Brien won the Irish jockeys title last year which is a major achievement in my mind as it speaks volumes for his talent. This title had very little to do with daddy's horses. He rode for so many trainers outside Ballydoyle because they were happy to use him again and again because he is one who get the job done without any fuss. To beat Kevin Manning (who got perfectly supplied by the mighty Jim Bolger btw.) in a close race for the title is huge in my mind. You don't win an Irish flat jockeys title unless you really know your job. I have huge respect for Joe O'Brien and think he's doing a fantastic job, ridding as good as everybody. His record speaks volumes. To be so cool in these big races as he is with 18 or 19 years of age is absolutely amazing. His commitment to the job is admirable as well. With all his weight issues it's so tough, yet he manges it. Like on Saturday at Meydan when he walked the track clothed in a way as if he'd go go skiing - but the temperature was like 33 degrees. That's amazing to be so focused for such a young man.

[Primevil]

Re: The Jockey Thread

I don't think Spencer is as bad as people suggest. When you ride like he does (hold up Hollywood style) it always looks worse when it seems like he has a load of horse under him that gets beat in a flashing finish. If he rode them all from the front and faded 1/2 f out he wouldn't get the same criticism. The one thing he does well is give a horse an education, teaches a horse how to go through a gap, how to switch around a field, how to drop in behind runners and go just off the pace, how to conserve energy and how to pass beaten horses. When you ride like that timing has to be perfect, exact precision. I'd agree that Ryan Moore is the best in the business at the minute but young Buick isn't that far behind. Watch the ride on Aiken last season in France, rode them to sleep from the front. Assessed how races are run in France (crawl and sprint), exploited it and took advantage. Some trainers give exact riding plans and others let the jockey decide during the race, maybe that is if they trust their jockey enough to make the correct judgment. There needs to be some flexibility within a race in case it doesn't pan out as planned (no pace) and that will split those jockeys that won't go on and make the running because it is against trainer orders and those that will make that judgment for themselves and possibly lead on a drop in/hold up horse because a crawl and sprint won't suit either. What I did find interesting at the weekend was an interview with Aidan O'Brien when he said the owners wanted them to be more handy with St Nicholas Abbey and stop holding it up so far in races. Those orders had been given to Aidan and passed on to Joseph and turned out to be spot on but how many owners would tell an owner how they want a horse to be ridden and how many leave that down to the trainer to work out?

The 4.10 Yarmouth today...Drifted like a kite, from FAV, boy did he give that an educational ride in how to lose a race. He is rancid at times, the betting told you he was going to get beat, and he did, However the horse was well and truely good enough. You could never ever back him with confidence.

[erhaab1965]

Re: The Jockey Thread

Why are you so harsh on Joseph? I tell you what, he gave St Nicholas Abbey a belter of a ride yesterday. He does have weight issues, he is 5 foot 11, which is very very tall for a jockey, so of course he has weight issues.. Find it ironic you saying Spencer dubbed him when Spencer has thrown more races away than any other jockey in the history of the sport. Another Group 1 on Joseph's list, you keep the insults coming Erhaab, in the meantime he will keep on winning those Group 1's.. :nana 15 Group 1's..... at the age of 19! Ryan Moore has 31 Group 1's at the age of 30.. Not too shabby Joseph.

I'm not being harsh, just airing my opinion, I did say somewhere that I said he was competent. Just wondering how long Mr Magnier,Tabor, Smith will tolerate his inexperiencegiven how ruthless they are.Historically they have always gone for jockeys with a vast amount of experience and are not afraid to go for senior jockeys (agewise). My comment about punters calling Jamie Spencer "Frank" is not due to having big success like Frankie Dettori's but actually after the 70s sit com character Frank Spencer. Never liked him in the past due to him losing races that he really should have won ( bit like R Hughes today) but he has matured in recent years and doesn't show boat as much now.

[BillyHills]

Re: The Jockey Thread I thought Joseph was going to go jump racing soon? Might have got that wrong but agree that Ryan Moore will fit their profile perfectly. Good post from Robertob, its ok us from England having opinions from afar and only seeing him in the top races but its the everyday stuff that makes you a top jockey in my eyes. I think he has not won races he should have (Camelot etc..) but he will make errors as he learns, he's just a kid dont forget and these massive owners wouldnt have him on their horses if he wasnt capable, thats fact.

[Aidymac]

Re: The Jockey Thread Yip, the plan for Joseph is either to go jumping, or to start learning the trade of a trainer. Personally, I think he won't get involved in jump racing, but who knows. Either way, he is a lucky lad and is set up for life.

[Primevil]

Re: The Jockey Thread Joe fanning..mark johns tone in the first at lingfield....always trying, bookies love the outfit,,I bet the stewards don't even ask. Beware of this outfit. Tailed off last btw

[Primevil]

Re: The Jockey Thread Mont Jess 250 southwell yet another fav out for the run...not a word said.:rollin

[Primevil]

Re: The Jockey Thread Thank heavens for Ryan Moore n sir ms,

[Elchubb]

Joe fanning..mark johns tone in the first at lingfield....always trying' date=' bookies love the outfit,,I bet the stewards don't even ask. Beware of this outfit. Tailed off last btw[/quote'] Yeah I watched that race, looked a lot like a public schooling to me but the yard are in great form with a 25% strike rate in the last 2 weeks!

[Primevil]

Re: The Jockey Thread

Yeah I watched that race' date=' looked a lot like a public schooling to me but the yard are in great form with a 25% strike rate in the last 2 weeks![/quote'] With respect to SR, yep, but why is nothing said, no one interviewed...Australia would have has a mike down someones throat...ATR is run by the bookies, and people that sit on a fence, more splinters than flesh.

[jayalexander]

Re: The Jockey Thread I've just taken a look into Jockey records when riding favourites and the results are quite illuminating: [TABLE]

[TR] [TD=class: databreakdown17] Jockey [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown17] Bets [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown17] Wins [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown17] WinStrike [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown17] SP_PL [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown17] Places [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown17] PlaceStrike [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown17] Races [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown17] RaceStrike [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown17] ROI [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown17] BF_Back [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: databreakdown18] [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] Bass, Mr D R [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 31 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 17 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 55% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 7.55 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 4 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 13% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 31 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 55% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 24.35% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 8.32 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: databreakdown18] [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] Coleman, A [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 124 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 65 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 52% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 44.00 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 23 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 19% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 124 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 52% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 35.48% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 47.79 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: databreakdown18] [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] Tart, Robert [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 25 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 13 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 52% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 10.17 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 6 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 24% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 25 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 52% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 40.68% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 10.98 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: databreakdown18] [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] ONeill, Dane [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 46 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 23 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 50% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 26.39 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 6 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 13% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 46 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 50% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 57.37% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 28.37 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: databreakdown18] [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] Tinkler, Andrew [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 49 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 24 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 49% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] -1.37 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 14 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 29% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 49 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 49% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] -2.80% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] -0.61 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: databreakdown18] [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] Mullins, Mr P W [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 134 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 66 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 49% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 4.35 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 34 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 25% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 134 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 49% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 3.25% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 6.95 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: databreakdown18] [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] Brooke, Henry [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 37 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 18 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 49% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 2.12 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 9 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 24% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 37 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 49% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 5.73% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 2.85 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: databreakdown18] [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] Tizzard, Joe [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 29 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 14 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 48% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 8.80 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 6 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 21% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 29 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 48% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 30.34% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 9.69 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: databreakdown18] [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] Mullen, Andrew [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 26 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 12 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 46% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 9.56 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 5 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 19% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 26 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 46% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 36.77% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 10.45 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: databreakdown18] [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] Mulrennan, Paul [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 59 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 27 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 46% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 30.06 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 13 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 22% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 59 [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 46% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 50.95% [/TD] [TD=class: databreakdown18] 32.41 [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Columns are a bit out of synch although I'm sure you can work it out. Data is for 2012 & 2013.

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: The Jockey Thread Great to see Sir Ryan Moore banging in the winners for fun again, he's worth keeping on the right side of for the season.

[Primevil]

Re: The Jockey Thread

Great to see Sir Ryan Moore banging in the winners for fun again' date=' he's worth keeping on the right side of for the season.[/quote'] Sure is mate sure is....The silent assain, rode ADAM KIRBY to sleep today(again)...Prem v Championship..all day!

[GILLY57]

Re: The Jockey Thread Its funny that some of the AW jocks are feted over winter but when the real top riders return in Spring we see how a horse should really be ridden - not being disrespectful as some of the winter guys will ultimately prove their worth and need to learn but when you see Ryan Moore et al there is a major difference in skill and ability

[jayalexander]

Re: The Jockey Thread Leonna Mayor has just done a shoot for Zoo magazine. Kirsty Milkshake is none too happy about it, saying that it's a backwards step for women in the sport. On the other hand, Milczarek recently tweeted that she'd just got her nails done an hour or so before her sole race at a meeting. She didn't win!

[south_eastern_ram]

Re: The Jockey Thread Spotted the potential of that filly a couple of years back. She always looked progressive. Fine young mare these days.

[ExpectTheUnexpected]

Re: The Jockey Thread Had me hard ridden last time out. Although in truth, im always rather weak in the finish.

[cpo]

Re: The Jockey Thread Eddie Ahern is an absolute hazard to all other jockeys. Twice I have watched him today pull off very dangerous manoeuvres. Should get a lengthy ban

[last minute winner]

Re: The Jockey Thread

Spotted the potential of that filly a couple of years back. She always looked progressive. Fine young mare these days.

She was giving me the eye at Southwell last year. Little skank!

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: The Jockey Thread Get well soon Champ.

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: The Jockey Thread Some thrills and spills.

[Primevil]

Re: The Jockey Thread Graham Gibbons arrested at wolves today, rumors are driving related.

[StuSimmy]

Re: The Jockey Thread Said something about not appearing in court for a drunk and disorderly charge.

[Primevil]

Re: The Jockey Thread Yeah. DD. the man has a problem, he is not the first with a sporting talent to go down this road. THe BHA need to take a stand on this. SEnd him off to a clinic for a few weeks, get him straightened out, at 29, he is only going one way, he needs help. However, the BHA IMO, do little, to late, as always.

[egg]

Re: The Jockey Thread wonder how long Ted Durcan will be riding D Lanigans expensive horses. Been following the stable for the past few seasons and the amount of time Ted gets into trouble is amazing. Im sure if i was an owner he's have been replaced a long time ago. two 3rd places from 40 rides this season.

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: The Jockey Thread

wonder how long Ted Durcan will be riding D Lanigans expensive horses. Been following the stable for the past few seasons and the amount of time Ted gets into trouble is amazing. Im sure if i was an owner he's have been replaced a long time ago. two 3rd places from 40 rides this season.

Yipp he's SHOCKING, and no doubt posting this will now signal him banging in winners for fun.

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: The Jockey Thread What a disgrace that Adam Kirby only has 1 ride at HQ on Saturday. When will this jockey get some credit ?

[Elchubb]

What a disgrace that Adam Kirby only has 1 ride at HQ on Saturday. When will this jockey get some credit ?

When they cover the track with sand and the likes of Fallon, Moore and Hughes go on holiday!

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: The Jockey Thread

When they cover the track with sand and the likes of Fallon' date=' Moore and Hughes go on holiday![/quote'] He's top class fella, just needs more than Mr Botti to see that.