Grand National Thread

[Monterosso]

Re: Grand National Thread Backed King Fontaine myself. I'm shocked and amazed at this horses ability. Although it's the ability to just plow through fences after fence without capsizing. He does it in every race and never falls. What is up with that? Finished 11th in the end, amazing. The mind boggles.

[Aykay1]

Re: Grand National Thread He could be one for next year Monte :ok

[london punter]

Re: Grand National Thread

Its not that the horses were killed' date=' im aware that happens and im relatively comfortable with it in the sense that its what they are bred to do and they love doing it. But on the biggest day in the racing calendar, the nation was shown the sight of a dead horse covered by a sheet, which is a bit explicit compared to having the screens up. I just think the BBC could have been a bit more savvy about handling it, given the type of audience they were catering to today.[/quote'] Yep agree with that AK , BBC dont come out of it too good do they , it is a bit insensitive a sheet for a horse that gave its life , not hard to put screens up is it , course and the beeb to blame i think ....

[Monterosso]

Re: Grand National Thread

He could be one for next year Monte :ok

If he could jump, he'd definitely go close. He's got a huge engine, pity it weighs him down and forces him to walk through his fences. I was thrilled to see him finish though. Nearly unseated his rider on about 15 occasions. So bizarre! :unsure Bookmarking this post for next year, when he'll win easily having jumped like a stag throughout. :rollin

[RussP]

Re: Grand National Thread

sorry i am a bit lost, we all punt in a sport where horses die, that is a fact whether it is on the gallops or on the course yet now i am reading that people were sickened by what they saw?? sorry this is double standards

Not sure which posts you're referring to but I hope it ain't mine. For me, the race was marred by the death of 2 horses. I'm not saying that I'm heading any campaign for the National to be scrapped or anything like that. Yes, I know it happens, just like death in motor racing can happen and career ending injuries in football....doesn't stop me betting on the sport but it doesn't help the enjoyment of that particular event. Screens, no screens; it don't matter. 2 horses died. Fact. Very upsetting.

[Tabbythecat]

Re: Grand National Thread

Yep agree with that AK ' date=' BBC dont come out of it too good do they , it is a bit insensitive a sheet for a horse that gave its life , not hard to put screens up is it , course and the beeb to blame i think ....[/quote'] The BBC wasn't in charge of the race coverage, it was Sunset & Vine that were, and I agree that the director handled it badly also blame has to be levelled at Aintree Racecourse for just putting a sheet over the deceased horse, but possibly due to the angle and health & safety concerns a snap decision was taken, but watching the RUK coverage it was handled totally different

[london punter]

Re: Grand National Thread

The BBC wasn't in charge of the race coverage' date=' it was Sunset & Vine that were, and I agree that the director handled it badly also blame has to be levelled at Aintree Racecourse for just putting a sheet over the deceased horse, but possibly due to the angle and health & safety concerns a snap decision was taken, but watching the RUK coverage it was handled totally different[/quote'] The old saying is " you get what you pay for " think that applies in this case even though we pay a license fee to the beeb , not on the same level as RUK or ATTHERACES is it ?

[Bathtime For Rupert]

Re: Grand National Thread Ballabriggs was in a group of 3 in which I was going to have my main fancy. With Oscar Time and The Midnight Club. Ended up going with the latter :wall Wouldn't have won, but probably would have grabbed a place had he not been badly hampered. Big Fella Thanks confirmed he doesn't stay. Always there or there abouts but absolutely crawled up the run-in. Looked a sure thing to be in the first 3 at the last!

[Hotpot Kid]

Re: Grand National Thread

Ballabriggs was in a group of 3 in which I was going to have my main fancy. With Oscar Time and The Midnight Club. Ended up going with the latter :wall Wouldn't have won, but probably would have grabbed a place had he not been badly hampered.

Midnight Club finished 6th, VC Bet paid 1/4 odds e/w first six home ;)

[Bathtime For Rupert]

Re: Grand National Thread

Midnight Club finished 6th' date=' VC Bet paid 1/4 odds e/w first six home ;)[/quote'] Meant top 5 really. Had it on the nose anyway.

[Monterosso]

Re: Grand National Thread

King Fontaine 80-1 11th Decent effort given he did not start particularly quickly and was nearly brought down. He jumped well and rider Denis O’Regan reckons he will be better next season

What?!!?! :rollin Such a game horse though. Can't wait to see how he develops next year. Has plenty of room for improvement anyways.

[billvernon]

Re: Grand National Thread Backstage & Ballabrigs - Good Ground horses Stand a very good chance right weight and recent runs with good place positions posted earlier - I know a lot of you guys were on Ballabrigs - welldone :clap I tipped at work and won a nice pot to treat the kids easter weekend - roll on cheltenham 2012 :ok I think I may be 2nd to Blairboy on top ten thread thoughbut not to bad a jumps season for me :D

[Lars]

Re: Grand National Thread

What?!!?! :rollin Such a game horse though. Can't wait to see how he develops next year. Has plenty of room for improvement anyways.

If King Fontaine could jump, he'd probably win a Gold Cup, nevermind a Grand National :lol:lol

sorry i am a bit lost, we all punt in a sport where horses die, that is a fact whether it is on the gallops or on the course yet now i am reading that people were sickened by what they saw?? sorry this is double standards

I've been out drinking, so might not be in the best state... Bowles, like Russ really hope you're not referring to me. The fact that the BBC producers decided to have a camera shot showing a dead horse with only a sheet over it, that really is quite sickening, from someone whose had horses yourself, surely you wouldn't wish that on any connections? At least sheets erected around the horse leave something to the imagination... whilst a tarpaulin over an obvious carcass... really isn't on. We all know horses die while racing, heck, two died on the flat on Saturday... One at Thirsk and one at Lingfield. But both didn't have a overhead shot of a carcass just laid there... I was feeling pretty sick when I saw that, even before I knew none of my selections was going to win. Hardly "double standards". Equine fatalities happen but we don't see a dead carcass in such a vivid way...

[fintron]

Re: Grand National Thread How would having screens up around a horse make any difference to seeing it with a sheet covered up? I'm also in the 'cold hearted' camp I'm afraid. As sad as it is for connections, the race goes on, as does the unrivalled magic that accompanies the National. Greatest race on earth, without a doubt.

[Blair Boy]

Re: Grand National Thread Everyone knows before hand there is a higher risk of fatality's in the National, People should address that before making the decision to watch the race. With regards to the horse lying with the sheet as covering, The view was only for a matter of seconds and think a screen would have brought more focus away from the race as it has to be remembered children and all watch the National.

[Tabbythecat]

Re: Grand National Thread

Everyone knows before hand there is a higher risk of fatality's in the National, People should address that before making the decision to watch the race. With regards to the horse lying with the sheet as covering, The view was only for a matter of seconds and think a screen would have brought more focus away from the race as it has to be remembered children and all watch the National.

A valid point, but the bbc's feed is carried worldwide

[mileni4uk]

Re: Grand National Thread I just realized that you're referring to the BBC coverate. On RUK there was no air footage of Becher's and shots of the dead horse. Haven't seen it, but from what I read it's been real bad.

[Tabbythecat]

Re: Grand National Thread

I just realized that you're referring to the BBC coverate. On RUK there was no air footage of Becher's and shots of the dead horse. Haven't seen it' date=' but from what I read it's been real bad.[/quote'] Exactly RUK's director knew what was going on and their coverage was miles better than the beeb's by a country mile, no doubt they will get hammered for thier woeful coverage

[Blair Boy]

Re: Grand National Thread

I just realized that you're referring to the BBC coverate. On RUK there was no air footage of Becher's and shots of the dead horse. Haven't seen it' date=' but from what I read it's been real bad.[/quote'] Having just watched the replay on the RUK site the green cover behind the fence although from a side few could clearly been seen, Although the angle made the shot less visible than that shown by the BBC and was quicker to change view. Unsure how you could have missed it though.

[Tabbythecat]

Re: Grand National Thread

Having just watched the replay on the RUK site the green cover behind the fence although from a side few could clearly been seen' date=' Although the angle made the shot less visible than that shown by the BBC and was quicker to change view. Unsure how you could have missed it though.[/quote'] Plus RUK didnt have an overhead shot of beechers and the RUK/Track commentators were excellent as usual

[mileni4uk]

Re: Grand National Thread I didn't miss it, but it was "ok", so to say. BBC has had air footage of Becher's, which showed the dead horse in a far worse way. Like I said, haven't seen it.

[Blair Boy]

Re: Grand National Thread

I didn't miss it' date=' but it was "ok", so to say. BBC has had air footage of Becher's, which showed the dead horse in a far worse way. Like I said, haven't seen it.[/quote'] My apologies I must have misinterpreted what you had wrote :ok

[Tabbythecat]

Re: Grand National Thread

I didn't miss it' date=' but it was "ok", so to say. BBC has had air footage of Becher's, which showed the dead horse in a far worse way. Like I said, haven't seen it.[/quote'] You wouldn't want to

[diamond1924]

Re: Grand National Thread

so publishing a photo of a horse falling to its death is the right thing to do?? Really i am totally lost here as to the recent posts

I re-read what i'd posted and had hastily edited out some text that i think would have put it in context. I was trying to say that the kind of images are fuel to the strong anti racing (particularly jumps) lobby. The crude handling of the images of dead horses by the Aintree and beeb broadcast will undoubtedly fan the flames IMO and I think that it could have been much, much better handled at the time. We as punters know the risks involved and have reconciled our collective conscience but there are a lot of people who are venomously against the sport.

[jtw1]

Re: Grand National Thread

I re-read what i'd posted and had hastily edited out some text that i think would have put it in context. I was trying to say that the kind of images are fuel to the strong anti racing (particularly jumps) lobby. The crude handling of the images of dead horses by the Aintree and beeb broadcast will undoubtedly fan the flames IMO and I think that it could have been much, much better handled at the time. We as punters know the risks involved and have reconciled our collective conscience but there are a lot of people who are venomously against the sport.

Spot on Diamond and exactly what i was trying to get across :ok. Everyone who bets on NH races or is connected in some way KNOW'S there is a risk and it's a dangerous sport but if the public , the once a year viewers start to turn against the National , then NATIONAL HUNT racing could well be doomed . With respect to the images , the screens SHOULD have been placed around the 1st casualty and the Beeb director SHOULD have had the savvy NOT to have shown the overhead pic of Becher's . Covering up the incidents ?? Yes of course !! the anti's will now use those images to further their arguments , thats the way they operate , any breath of publicity is vital to their cause and Aintree and the Beeb have unwittingly given them enough to last for years i'm afraid . Answers - lower the fences even more imo , the spectacle and atmosphere would not be detracted . How many of the millions watching yesterday would give two hoots if the authorities took 6 inches or more off the top of each fence and doing away with ANY drop on the landing side would again be of no consequence to the average punter . The race is The old guard would no doubt have something to say but in this age of mass media and how public opinion can be manipulated we have to learn from events such as yesterdays .

[mileni4uk]

Re: Grand National Thread Lowering fences will make horses jump even faster though.

[jtw1]

Re: Grand National Thread

Lowering fences will make horses jump even faster though.

Maybe so and thats where the state of the ground could be looked at , this years renewal was the 2nd fastest i believe and i think it's well regarded that horses have a greater chance of injury on dryer ground so , again many will not agree as some runners are better on firmer ground , why not water the ground to ensure at least G/S . The weather was unseasonable warm yesterday and that was forecast for days in advance so the course could have done so yesterday . The majority of Nationals are run on softer ground so this would not need to be the case every year . Again, this is not perfect by any means but , it's the protection of the image of the race that , imo , is now paramount if it's to continue to have the public support it enjoys . Just opinions guys and open for discussion :ok

[MrJol]

Re: Grand National Thread Lot of fuss about nothing if you ask me :bignana

[mileni4uk]

Re: Grand National Thread BBC viewing figures peaked at 8.8 million yesterday. Up 1.2m on 2010.

[Gingertipster]

Re: Grand National Thread Well done to connections, all that backed Ballabriggs and/or made a profit. The Grand National is a dangerous race, but we should try and make it as safe as possible without decreasing the spectacle. We should not hide fatalities, ie we should tell the public. But when children are watching, a horse with just a tarpaulin on top is not enough. I am with others who think this result (two horse deaths) has not done racing any good. However, as Mileni says, feelings that fences are too stiff are wide of the mark. Primarily, the offending object is not the obstacles, hitting them does not (on the whole) kill. It is speed and firmness of ground that does the damage. If fences are made easier, horses go faster over them and (when they do fall) death and/or injury is more likely. Despite them having to go around the outside of two fences - including on the wide outside of a turn - they were 13 seconds faster than Racing Post Standard. Second fastest of all time. That suggests to me it was more like good-firm on the National course. Did they water enough? I don't think so. I don't know for certain if these particular deaths were caused by ground conditions; but it is a known fact fatalities and injuries increase the firmer the going. Are there too many runners? 40 horses makes being brought down and/or horses falling on top of each other, too likely; especially now the fences are (presumably) narrower, to allow them to ommit a fence. The Grand National is the best race in the world. But we are not hypocites to want a safer race; if at all possible.