bowles10 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread had been on the beer last night and also on a high after a decent winning day (despite the footballresult!) however on reflection, and re-reading the posts, i understand where you guys are coming from with the coverage, it must have been a very quick decision to make to show the aerial shot to cover the horses going around the ommitted fences, i can only imagine they regret it now to show a sticken horse either covered in one case or with the sheets up in the other. Most race goers have seen the sheets before if they go regular and its not a nice sight. Ask alexmac who saw the newbury electrocutions the other week. Anyhow, its a part of the sport that comes with it unfortunately, much the same as speed horses suddenly breaking down in the middle of a race and having to be put down. thoughts go out to connections to all. However, is it really justified to say the race shouldnt be run, perhaps a safety limit lower than the existing 40 runners or making sure the ground doesnt firm up too much if thats possible, i mean the weather this week has been well above average for a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread I am definitely NOT in favour of banning jump racing or the Grand National. However, I AM in favour of banning Summer jumping. Firm ground KILLS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileni4uk Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375210/Grand-National-2011-Ballabriggs-wins-day-drama-Aintree.html FFS! They've changed the pictures now. The one with the horse circled in red is absolute disgrace. And at the same time RUK are interviewing a journalist from the Mail as we speak. :@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread Some of the comments on the Mail page are a joke, but I guess that is to be expected and how many die training for the race that we do not hear about? There are a few angles they could have taken to report on it, no surprise it was this one. I for one do not care if the injured jockey lives or dies. That may seem harsh, but the scenes I saw yesterday with the horses being pushed to within an inch of their lives (some of them dying) disgusted me. I am ashamed to be human. For human entertainment, and nothing else, 2 horses suffered an agonisind death. Maybe that jockey now has an idea of what they went through, and I for one do not care if he lives to tell the tale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtw1 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread had been on the beer last night and also on a high after a decent winning day (despite the footballresult!) however on reflection, and re-reading the posts, i understand where you guys are coming from with the coverage, it must have been a very quick decision to make to show the aerial shot to cover the horses going around the ommitted fences, i can only imagine they regret it now to show a sticken horse either covered in one case or with the sheets up in the other. Most race goers have seen the sheets before if they go regular and its not a nice sight. Ask alexmac who saw the newbury electrocutions the other week. Anyhow, its a part of the sport that comes with it unfortunately, much the same as speed horses suddenly breaking down in the middle of a race and having to be put down. thoughts go out to connections to all. However, is it really justified to say the race shouldnt be run, perhaps a safety limit lower than the existing 40 runners or making sure the ground doesnt firm up too much if thats possible, i mean the weather this week has been well above average for a start. Thought you'd been drowning the sorrows after the Scunthorpe result mate ;) With regards to the decision to show the aerial shot of Bechers it wasn't that quick a decision as the commetators had told the viewers at least 3 fences before [ if memory serves ] that Bechers was going to be omitted so i'm afraid the beeb cocked-up there. I agree it is , unfortunately , part of the sport but the way both incidents were handled need to be looked at by those in charge . It's a shame that what was an otherwise great race and spectacle for the 73,000 there and the millions watching has been slightly marred but i'm sure lessons will be learnt and the National will continue to excite and entrall us all..:cheers PS - didn't buy a sunday paper today as they are the real Hypocrites imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aykay1 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread That last comment :@ I think its almost expected that there will be a fatality in the Grand National. Its not nice but thats the nature of the race. However we should minimise the risks involved where possible. I said to Matt on facebook last night that there should be a responsibility from the trainers/owners involved. lets take one of the dead horses Ornais. Nicholls was previewing his runners on Thursday and basically said that Ornais was a good horse before his injury but not now. He also said he "wasnt a National horse" why was he running? Cant Buy Time now has a record of 3 runs, 3 falls in the National after completing his hattrick yesterday. Might as well throw Ballyfitz in from last year's race - he cant jump. The Tother One is a dodgy jumper yet was running. Of course good jumpers fall aswell, but it seems a bit irresponsible to enter those types of horses in a race where good jumping is a necessity. Am I being harsh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aykay1 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread What are the odds on a softer ground National next year? Almost certain i'd say. They'll probably need to water - 14th April 2012, so a week later than this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtw1 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread That last comment :@ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aykay1 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread ? I was referring to the last comment in TheRat's post about the injured jockey - you posted before I could ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtw1 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread I was referring to the last comment in TheRat's post about the injured jockey - you posted before I could ;) See what you mean :@ I've always been convinced that those 'Animal activist's' are Human haters rather than animal lovers and that proves it once more for me ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread Legendary Grand National trainer Ginger McCain urges Aintree authorities to resist making course easier. "Speed does the damage," he says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread Some of the comments on the Mail page are a joke, but I guess that is to be expected There are a few angles they could have taken to report on it, no surprise it was this one. Eh! Bit of artistic journalism in that article if you ask me. "33 deaths in 11 years"???? Really? 11 years and 3 days more accurately! That is 12 Grand Nationals not 11. Probably "journalistic license, done just to make it sound worse than it actually is. It is NOT just the Grand National either. 33 deaths are in the whole meeting, ie 12 years of 3 day meetings not just 1 race a year: 7 were in hurdle races. 1 in a FLAT RACE! 25 over fences. Of those 25 over fences, just 9 were in the Grand National. 479 horses ran in the Grand National in those 12 years. 9 out of 479 means 9 '/, 479 = 0.0188. A 1.88% attrition rate!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread I know, I agree. I was talking about the reader comments below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trips Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread Eh! Bit of artistic journalism in that article if you ask me. "33 deaths in 11 years"???? Really? 11 years and 1 day more accurately! That is 12 Grand Nationals not 11. Probably "journalistic license, done just to make it sound worse than it actually is. It is NOT just the Grand National either. 33 deaths are in the whole meeting, ie 12 years of 3 day meetings not just 1 race a year: 7 were in hurdle races. 1 in a FLAT RACE! 25 over fences. Of those 25 over fences, just 9 were in the Grand National. 479 horses ran in the Grand National in those 12 years. 9 out of 479 means 9 '/, 479 = 0.0188. A 1.88% attrition rate!!! Great post Gingertipster,i hope some of the stats and points you have made are argued by Aintree and racing itself when defending NH racing and the National. I have to agree with some of the points raised on ATRs Get On this morning,Newspapers have used the Grand National to sell more papers to National lovers all week, sweeps. get a free bet, racing coverage for the national etc, Sunday comes and they are still using the National to try and sell more papers,except now they are appealing to anti national buyers.they are hypocrites, they don't care for the welfare of the Horse ,they just want to sell more papers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabbythecat Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread Jason Maguire got 5 days for his riding on the winner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileni4uk Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread Andy Stewart sums it up for me: "My son snowboarded in France and, unfortunately, he had an accident and he'll never walk again. Why don't we just get on with it and enjoy the sport?" http://www.attheraces.com/article.aspx?ref=RSS+Feed&nav=news&hlid=515843&lid=PA+Racing+Feed&title=Stewart+leaps+to+National+defence&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabbythecat Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread Andy Stewart sums it up for me: "My son snowboarded in France and, unfortunately, he had an accident and he'll never walk again. Why don't we just get on with it and enjoy the sport?" http://www.attheraces.com/article.aspx?ref=RSS+Feed&nav=news&hlid=515843&lid=PA+Racing+Feed&title=Stewart+leaps+to+National+defence&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter I saw that interview, with Derek Thompson looking like a very bad blues brother tribute act, but Andy Stewart was diplomatic as usual, despite Thompson's dire interviewing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awooga Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread The Daily Mail lol what do you expect! I think what the everyday person who just bets on the National and people who have no idea about the sport fail to see that this is unfortunately a downside to the sport. These horses died doing what they loved doing. Saw Paul Nicchols today on ATR and he said it was obv sad but they have to go on. He made a good point too saying they try making the roads safer but it's never going to be 100% safe (or something along those lines). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread Don't know if that is technically true Awooga. Ornais did not seem to be enjoying his racing this year after an injury. Some horses enjoy racing, some don't. Some enjoy the national fences, some don't. Though it is true, if they really wanted to say "NO", then they could and do. Channinbar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread Great post Gingertipster,i hope some of the stats and points you have made are argued by Aintree and racing itself when defending NH racing and the National. I've sent the Mailonline a comment on that page Trips, with the points I raised here. Doubt very much whether it will be published. They seem to censor their comment page. :puke Sent them a comment after a similar piece of animal aid nonsense they wrote after McKelvey sadly lost his life. That wasn't published either. :wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread Debate on 5 Live 7.30 tomorrow morning with Animal Aid and Brough Scott for those interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowgli77 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread If 2 horses had died midweek in races at Taunton or Wetherby etc there would be none of this publicity. As Ginge rightly points out these horses that died previously were over 3 day meetings and not all in the one race, which is what they seem to be trying to say with their manipulation of statistics to sell their papers and get the National banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowles10 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread Debate on 5 Live 7.30 tomorrow morning with Animal Aid and Brough Scott for those interested lets hope they remove police horses from riot situations then, not the safest place for a horse me thinks yet effective for crowd control etc, and they are trained to deal with the situation much like horses are trained for the film scenes they are involved in Racing is people who love to work with horses, they are attached to every single one of them whether they are worth 1k or 500k, they must feel immense sadness when one does not come home lets look at the amount of horses in the race and also the ground conditions when it firms up. Thats about it in terms of altering the race in any way. Perhaps qualification with horses proven over 3m+ distance is another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trips Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread I've sent the Mailonline a comment on that page Trips, with the points I raised here. Doubt very much whether it will be published. They seem to censor their comment page. :puke Sent them a comment after a similar piece of animal aid nonsense they wrote after McKelvey sadly lost his life. That wasn't published either. :wall I agree ,cant see them printing anything you have said Gingertipster, they are only intersted in selling more papers. might be worth emailing ATR during the week and see if they agree.would like this to get more coverage to give racing fans more of an argument against the anti national brigade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread I went to Aintree with some mates a couple of times in the early 1980's, and was amazed at the overall size of Becher's (total depth, height, etc), and the landing slope seemed to be almost on a 45 degree angle, As far as I remember, it also used to be the full width of the course, with no opportunity to exclude it by scooting around the outside. What have they done in the past with regard to a horse who died when falling? Did they move the horse quickly to the inside of the course or put markers up on the fence - I don't remember :$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileni4uk Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread What a lovely picture. I'm so happy for Donald and Jason, but also for Trevor. He deserves this success more than anyone. Wonderful man, to whom racing owes so much :clap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread What have they done in the past with regard to a horse who died when falling? Did they move the horse quickly to the inside of the course or put markers up on the fence - I don't remember :$ In the 80's (87?) Brown Trix fell at Bechers and fell back in the brook. They struggled to pull the horse out before they came around again, and failed. Afterwards the fence was changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread Eh! 33 deaths are in the whole meeting, ie 12 years of a 3 day meetings not just 1 race a year: 7 were in hurdle races. 1 in a FLAT RACE! 25 over fences. Of those 25 over fences, just 9 were in the Grand National. 479 horses ran in the Grand National in those 12 years. 9 out of 479 means 9 '/, 479 = 0.0188. A 1.88% attrition rate!!! Some more stats for you: Of the 9 fatalities, only 5 “fellâ€. 5 '/, 479 = 0.008. These photos look disturbing, but just 0.8% of runners died from falling. 4 did not hit the deck. 3 unseated their jockey and ran loose, 1 was pulled up on the run-in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trips Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread So only 5 horses not 33 have died from falling in the National in the last 12 years.how long did it take you get these stats Gingertipster, amazing ,watched a lot of debate on ATR yesterday,they made a point of telling everyone all the wrong stats and negative opinions of the press and chatted about how can we make the National more safer.,lots of debate on defending Nh racing but nobody bothering to look into the stats to show what's really happened in the last 12 years. yes the National is a hard race but its nowhere near as bad as the press are trying to make out.and here are the stats to prove it should have been their answer. like Mcg i am wondering why in past Nationals we never noticed these horses laying on the ground when the field came round for another circuit. maybe most fallers fell on the 2nd circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aykay1 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Re: Grand National Thread You need to send those stats into Aintree ginge. I understand they are meeting with the RSPCA soon. Or the BHA. Good stuff :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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