Coolers - lets discuss strategy

[GaF]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

I can believe it :ok

Having said that ..... if an average hand takes 40 seconds, that's a decision a second ...... if an average hand takes 1 min 20 seconds, that's a decision every 2 seconds - reality is probably somewhere in between - so a decision between every 1 and 2 seconds :loon Couldnt keep that going for long!!

[AJ]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Guess it comes down to the old saying, it takes better cards to call with than to bet with. Being first into the hand gives you are a large vig, most of the value of teh 85o push comes from that. AA is the only hand I'd consider calling with in this circumstance.

[GaF]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

GAF said The Gap in these is absolutely huge - much much much more so than other forms of poker - so often you can shove with any two, and others cannot reasonably call with anything (even aces) - success in these games is all about the chips you can pick up pre flop without seeing a flop (let alone a showdown).

Guess it comes down to the old saying' date=' it takes better cards to call with than to bet with.[/quote'] Otherwise known as "The Gap" ;)

[slapdash]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

I can believe it :ok With no end game to play' date=' and a pretty tight strategy, it's an easier format than most to multitable.[/quote']

[GaF]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol I think I'm just indecisive, mixed up and confused by it all at the moment - best if everyone just ignores everything I say!!

[Jaded]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol I think I'm just indecisive, mixed up and confused by it all at the moment - best if everyone just ignores everything I say!!

After 3 years, you've FINALLY worked that out GaF? :rollin (Disclaimer: Above post is sarcasm, due to it being half-term I'm running out of people to make nasty comments to!)

[staffy]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Im gonna give these coolers are proper go over next few weeks see how I get on. Going to play on stars start with the $10 games.

[slapdash]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

Im gonna give these coolers are proper go over next few weeks see how I get on. Going to play on stars start with the $10 games.

Good luck! The Stars ones have the advantage of lower rake, and they fill up a lot quicker, but I think they're much tougher than the Boss ones.

[staffy]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Thanks Slap. So why do you think there tougher.

[slapdash]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

Thanks Slap. So why do you think there tougher.

I suppose my main reason for thinking that is that I've done a lot better on Boss. It's true that I haven't played very many on Stars, but I felt a lot less in control there. I know that on Stars there are a lot of people seriously multi-tabling these, and I suspect quite a few of them know what they're doing, and although they're playing pretty mechanically, they probably won't do many very stupid things. While on Boss, a lot of my equity comes from people doing really stupid things.

[slapdash]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy This is an invented situation, but (sadly :cry) inspired by one I just found myself in. 6 players left. You have 10 (!) chips. UTG+1 has about 1000 chips, and other stacks are bigger. The 200/400 blind level has recently started. It's folded to you on the button. You have AA. What do you do?

[GaF]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy I'm stunned you're even asking the question - I cannot believe you would even consider any action except to fold - it's got to be the most straightforward fold ever hasn't it :unsure

[staffy]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

This is an invented situation, but (sadly :cry) inspired by one I just found myself in. 6 players left. You have 10 (!) chips. UTG+1 has about 1000 chips, and other stacks are bigger. The 200/400 blind level has recently started. It's folded to you on the button. You have AA. What do you do?

im using all the time available then pusing all in.

[slapdash]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

I'm stunned you're even asking the question - I cannot believe you would even consider any action except to fold - it's got to be the most straightforward fold ever hasn't it :unsure

Yeah. I wasn't asking because it was a difficult decision, but it was a slightly unusual situation where it's clearly right to fold aces. (In the actual game, I had AJo in this situation, obviously folded, but noticed that it would be clear to fold anything. Not quite sure why the guy on the previous hand let me keep 10 chips! I survived my next BB, by the way, but went out on my SB.)

[robilaruk]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

What do you do?

Fold

[GaF]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Another contrived situation.... First hand in a €3 cooler. I'm UTG with AKs. What do I do? I have so many mixed messages with this... - it is a premium hand - it is only Ace high - I view my success rate in the micro stake coolers as about 70-80%, so whatever I do with it needs to increase this expectation beyond that Do I control the pot with Ace high? Or do I build a pot with a premium hand? At the moment I'm tending to think it's a fold - because no matter how I play it, I dont think my expectation is going to increase beyond 70-80%. But this seems ridiculous for a premium holding!! Quite simply though, at this level I will get called by worse hands that have more than a 20% chance of beating me (like small pocket pairs), so even if I'm favourite, my ev reduces.... Because of this, I'm currently thinking raising is the absolute worst thing you can do :unsure

[Jaded]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

Another contrived situation.... First hand in a €3 cooler. I'm UTG with AKs. What do I do? ... At the moment I'm tending to think it's a fold - because no matter how I play it, I dont think my expectation is going to increase beyond 70-80%. But this seems ridiculous for a premium holding!! .... Because of this, I'm currently thinking raising is the absolute worst thing you can do :unsure

I'd raise. Everyone's now thinking GaF?'s definitely right, yeah? However, I should point out I'm not as confident as he is and my expectation is probably 60% - 65% - in that case it could presumably be a reasonable raise for me, but a clear fold for GaF?/Slappy/3 year old children/trained chimpanzees/other 'better' players than me!

[slapdash]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

Another contrived situation.... First hand in a €3 cooler. I'm UTG with AKs. What do I do? I have so many mixed messages with this... - it is a premium hand - it is only Ace high - I view my success rate in the micro stake coolers as about 70-80%, so whatever I do with it needs to increase this expectation beyond that Do I control the pot with Ace high? Or do I build a pot with a premium hand? At the moment I'm tending to think it's a fold - because no matter how I play it, I dont think my expectation is going to increase beyond 70-80%. But this seems ridiculous for a premium holding!! Quite simply though, at this level I will get called by worse hands that have more than a 20% chance of beating me (like small pocket pairs), so even if I'm favourite, my ev reduces.... Because of this, I'm currently thinking raising is the absolute worst thing you can do :unsure

I'm not sure it's correct, but I fold these. When I have played hands like this, maybe I've played them too cautiously, but I very often seemed to end up folding to a reraise or to a bet on the flop. If I'm going to fold to a reraise, then if I win the hand preflop I only pick up the blinds. Otherwise, I'm only going to win the hand post-flop, in which case I want to be able to be pretty confident I'm ahead post-flop, so I'd much rather have a hand like a pair, where I might hit trips, than AKs (or worse, AKo). And even if I do hit the flop hard, I have much worse implied odds than in a normal STT, as most of my opponents are going to be a lot more cautious, too.

[slapdash]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Not a strategy point, but also not really worth opening a new thread for.:tongue2: I just played in a €50 cooler which was over before the end of the 25/50 blind level! I think that's my third where I haven't played a single hand, but I'm pretty sure it's the first where I haven't even considered playing a hand!

[slapdash]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy I've just started a level 4 Rounders on Prima, if anybody wants to see how these play at the $302.50 level.

[GaF]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

I've just started a level 4 Rounders on Prima' date=' if anybody wants to see how these play at the $302.50 level.[/quote'] Had it open, but couldnt watch too closely - well done anyway - from what I saw, you found it pretty easy ;) (Did you get called at all?)

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy What do you win for this level mate? Or is there a Level 5?

[GaF]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Just played my first games (two wins :) and looking good in number 3 :)) on Stars (DOuble or Nothing Turbo at $5) - the big thing I noticed is that the ante's totally change the dynamic and the strategy - the Virgin game probably helped me a bit in this - but with the anyes it is less important to maintain a playable stack because once you win a hand with the antes you get far far bigger rewards than just winning the blinds (especially if you have less than a blind :loon It seems far easier to tick over on nothing in this than without the antes..... Just looking further at the structure and the antes are only 10% of the big blind - so with 6 players, instead of 1.5xBB to win, there's 2.1xBB - TBH I'm surprised as I got the impression it was greater than that :unsure

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Just played a €10 and a €30 on Boss, I played ONE hand total during the 2 games. This was in the €30 one, and there were 17 seconds to go before the 150/300 level. I called without a second thought as I would be going through the blinds soon with a stack of just that. I was the only one not to have played a hand, hence being the shortie of those left. I figured I was gonna have to shove soon, and likely wouldn't get as good a hand in that time, so was an easy shove. Figured my chance of winning by sitting and doing nothing was virtually none existent, say 5%. My chance of winning a random hand soon with no fold equity would be maybe 35%. At worst here I reckoned I would be 45% to win. Were those calculations correct? And it is an easy shove, isn't it?

***** Hand 1299550487 ***** 100.00/200.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 31 October 2008 00:54:09 Cooler (Real /Tournament ) Seat 2: kikxxi (2620.00) Seat 6: plSamba (870.00) Seat 4: greggzz (1120.00) Seat 5: ASastre (1280.00) Seat 7: MABER6 (3706.00) Seat 8: Moosebooze (1005.00) Seat 9: Kuching (2219.00) Seat 10: **AK** (2180.00) kikxxi post SB 100.00 greggzz post BB 200.00 ** Deal ** kikxxi [N/A, N/A] plSamba [Kc, Ac] greggzz [N/A, N/A] ASastre [N/A, N/A] MABER6 [N/A, N/A] Moosebooze [N/A, N/A] Kuching [N/A, N/A] **AK** [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** ASastre All-in 1280.00 plSamba ....

[GaF]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Yeah - easy call for me - especially with 8 players still in

[robilaruk]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

Another contrived situation.... First hand in a €3 cooler. I'm UTG with AKs. What do I do?

From my experience there are alot of family pots at this level of buy-in at levels 1&2, so limping might not be a bad idea as long as you are prepared to lay your single pair down on the flop if you encounter strong resistance. If I had 6 tables running I would probably fold, if this was the first/2nd of a new set I would limp and watch the table to see what happens. WHat is more interesting is what you do if you have 88-JJ UTG 1st hand - these are a lot harder to play pre and post flop IMO if you get lots of calls/rearised or don't flop a set and have folks calling bets on the flop. Damo

[robilaruk]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

Were those calculations correct? And it is an easy shove' date=' isn't it?[/quote'] I am unsure as to position as the HH has the seating in the wrong order? Did everyone else fold before it got to you? if so easy call - if more than one person called the other shortie shove before you then I might fold? If you are next to act then call and :hope no more than one more person also calls. Damo

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

From my experience there are alot of family pots at this level of buy-in at levels 1&2, so limping might not be a bad idea as long as you are prepared to lay your single pair down on the flop if you encounter strong resistance. If I had 6 tables running I would probably fold, if this was the first/2nd of a new set I would limp and watch the table to see what happens. WHat is more interesting is what you do if you have 88-JJ UTG 1st hand - these are a lot harder to play pre and post flop IMO if you get lots of calls/rearised or don't flop a set and have folks calling bets on the flop. Damo

I'd be folding 88-JJ UTG every time 1st hand

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

I am unsure as to position as the HH has the seating in the wrong order? Did everyone else fold before it got to you? if so easy call - if more than one person called the other shortie shove before you then I might fold? If you are next to act then call and :hope no more than one more person also calls. Damo

I was next to act. It has the seat numbers correct, but the seating order wrong. Strange

[slapdash]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

Had it open' date=' but couldnt watch too closely - well done anyway - from what I saw, you found it pretty easy ;) (Did you get called at all?)[/quote'] No, not in the later levels, anyway. I saw some flops and lost some chips early on, because I kept getting dealt KK! There's a level 5, where the top four win cash. But I can (and will) use the tokens I won in this to play two more Level 4's. At the moment I have (I think) enough tokens for six Level 4's. Current plan is to play Level 4 until I have enough for nine Level 4's and then play a Level 5, leaving enough for seven Level 4's.