Coolers - lets discuss strategy

[GaF]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Interesting article here too - http://www.sitandgoplanet.com/sitandgo/sng_strategy/Double_Or_Nothing_SNGs_part1.html

Double Or Nothing SNGs – Part #1 – Overview Detailed Overview Of Double Or Nothing (DoN) Sit N Go Tournaments On Stars And Beyond Double or Nothing SNGs are not a new phenomenon – however the recent introduction of these games on Poker Stars has lead to a surge of interest in these games in which half of the field get paid double their buy-in. Here at SNG Planet we believe that Double or Nothing Sit N Goes have excellent potential for bankroll building - and would recommend these to those players willing to ‘grind out’ a reasonable volume at the low to mid-limits for this purpose. This is the first of 2 articles covering Double or Nothing SNGs. This one covers the facts and figures, along with an explanation of why these games can be used to steadily grow your bankroll. Part #2 – covers Double or Nothing SNG Strategy, taking each stage of the tournament and highlighting the most effective ways of exploiting the errors of your opponents. Poker Stars is the most popular poker site world-wide by a considerable margin. While Double or Nothing Sit and Go tournaments are available elsewhere, the sheer volume of players at Stars mean that this is the obvious choice of site for those seeking regular games. We recommend Stars to any serious SNG players – Marketing / Bonus code combo PAWSUB35 / FIRST2008 will get you the $50 (100%) on sign-up. Double Or Nothing SNGs – How Do They Work? These single-table tournaments start with 10 players and stop when there are 5 players remaining. At this point the 5 remaining players get double their buy-in, while the 5 eliminated players get nothing. Turbo (5 minute) and Standard (10 minute) blinds are available with small antes kicking in at level 3 (25 / 50). Double Or Nothing SNGs – What Buyins Are Available What Are The Fees? Buy-ins are identical for the standard and turbo versions – however the rake (fee) is slightly lower for the turbo versions reflecting the speed of the game and smaller potential reward (the structure being closer to a heads-up poker SNG. Standard Blinds Buy-ins: $1+15c, then $5+40c, $10+80c, $20+$1.60c, $50+$4, and $100+$8. Turbo Blinds Buy-ins: $1+10c, $5+20c, $10+40c, $20+80c, $50+$2 and $100+4 Game volumes are lower once we hit the $20 versions, however multi-tabling these games is very easy, especially at peak times. Double Or Nothing SNGs – Why Are These Great Bankroll Builders? To answer this question fully we need to take a high-level overview of poker strategy for these games. We explore this in part #2 of this series (double or nothing SNG Strategy), however the basic ideas are two-fold:

1. You only need 2 or 3 players in each game who do not adjust correctly to these games and bust early to make you big profits over time – and most games will have more than this number!
2. The optimal poker decisions against most opponents are very straightforward – you will be folding most of the time, those hands you do play will be usually be decided pre-flop.

This means that it is possible to play several tables at once, increasing your hourly rate – and thus your poker bankroll. Double or Nothing Sit N Goes are actually much faster than ‘normal’ 1-table tournaments, with the turbo games averaging 25 to 30 minutes, this increases your earning power even more. A simplified example would be that a competent player 1-tabling the standard blinds qat the $10+80c level might be able to cash 75% of the time. Switching to turbo blinds and playing 4 tables at once might reduce this player’s edge to 65% - however we are now paying lower rake (40c instead of 80c per game) and can play 8 games per hour, making the a significant difference to your overall profit as outlined below: What is more – since the volatility in these games is low (you are less likely to have a long run without cashing due to the half / half payout structure), they can be played with a lower bankroll. We suggest 20 buy-ins should be more than enough while you are building up your bankroll at the lower levels. Double or Nothing SNGs – Summary / Final Thoughts? A great bankroll building game which attracts many ‘fun’ players who are almost literally giving away their money. If you have not yet tried Poker Stars then this could well be a profitable reason to find out for yourself just what makes this site twice as popular as even their nearest rivals.

Double Or Nothing SNGs Strategy Strategy Overview For Double Or Nothing SNG Tournaments Part #1 of this series gave a detailed overview of Double or Nothing SNGs, this article follows on by looking at some of the specific poker strategy adjustments required to make a profit from these games. We break this into two sections, the first re-capping where the profits come from and looking high-level errors in your opponent’s understanding of these games. The second then follows the ‘early, middle, late’ staged approach to these tournaments. Double or Nothing SNG Strategy – High Level Overview Our perspective is that these are true ‘grinders’ games in which your profit comes from those few ‘crazy’ players who will simply give their buy-in away during the early stages. Solid ‘bubble’ play is a must – as this will allow you to take your share (or more!) of the cash left by the players who misunderstand the correct strategy for these games. You will find many multi-table grinders in Double or Nothing SNGs, at the mid-levels this might include several opponents on each table. It is vitally important that you identify who these players are, and adjust your strategy when they enter the pot with a raise. Observing the names at the tables and looking up stats on a service such as Sharkscope will help you avoid tables with 4, 5 or more winning regulars. (Click to enlarge lobby view.) Looking in terms of prize pool equity (poker ICM) will quickly show that the later stages of these games play more like satellites than normal SNGs. Since you can only win double your buy-in the risk of busting is much greater than the reward for doubling up, making survival paramount. More on this in the ‘late stages’ section below. You also need to be aware that all of the early / mid stage strategy is geared towards having a playable stack at the bubble, where playable is defined simply as ‘not one of the smallest + with some fold equity’ Double or Nothing SNG Strategy – Stage by Stage Early Stages – Blinds 10 / 20 to 25 / 50:

• Watch your opponents, grinders will be folding 95% of hands here while those new to the game will raise or call with a wider range. Find out who is only playing top hands and avoid them later in the game.
• Fold all but premium hands in early position and avoid flat calling raises from any position, reraising with monsters. Big-pot hands such as small pairs can be limped behind from later positions, however if a player yet to act has shown themselves to be aggressive this should also be avoided.
• Preserving your stack is key in the first few blind levels. This gives opponents the opportunity to bust each other, while maintaining the threat of a large raise during the middle stages.

Middle Stages – Blinds 25 / 50 to 75 / 150:

• With a small ante kicking-in at the 25 / 50 blind levels the incentive to steal blinds is increased, by the 50 / 100 level this becomes an important stack-maintenance strategy. Combine good position with your prior observations and focus on the medium-stacks and the tight opponents at your table to ensure that you steal your share.
• Rarely call any raises. Any time you are faced with a raise you should ask yourself how often you expect your opponent to fold to a re-raise, based on previous behavior, their position and expected raising / calling ranges. If your hand is not good enough to re-raise all-in then it is rarely good enough to see a flop with when the risk of losing chips is vital to the later stages of the game.
• Stack size considerations start to become important during the middle stages, especially in those games where 3 players have already busted. Avoid playing pots with the very large stacks where possible. You should also bear in mind that a short-stack might make a stand with a less than premium hand and avoid being pot-committed against them without a strong holding – flipping a coin for half of your stack in a disaster with such a flat payout structure.

Late Stages – Blinds 100 / 200 +

• At the 6-player bubble and interesting phenomenon occurs, with (hypothetical) ‘even stacks’ each player would have an equity equal to 16.66% of the prize pool – so $16.66c in the $10 buy-in games. However, winning an all-in can only increase this to 20% (or $20 in our example). In any confrontation you are risking almost $17 to win an additional $3 – this ratio affects bubble strategy in a fundamental way.
• Never calling all-in during the late stages should be your default strategy, with only very rare exceptions where you either hold aces or have a very large or very small stack. This also relates to situations where calling a smaller raise would commit either you or your opponent to the pot.
• Pushing all-in to steal the blinds is a great strategy against players who understand the dynamics of the Double or Nothing Sit N Go bubble. Since you should be called only a tiny amount of the time this is a low-risk way of ensuring you maintain enough chips. Your observations from early in the game are important. If an opponent calls with a weak hand then ask yourself how you could have predicted this from previous hands before you blame someone for ‘bad play’.
• Folding is profitable at an aggressive table, with 6 people at the bubble there is a higher chance of 2 other players busting than in a normal SNG. This also means that the ‘pressure’ from the blinds is lower than usual. Folding should be the default play from the first two positions assuming you have maintained a playable stack.

Double or Nothing SNG Strategy – Final Thoughts Poker is all about adjusting to the situation and your opponents, the profits from Double or Nothing SNGs comes from thinking through the structure + bubble-dynamics and then ‘out-adjusting’ your opponents. Remember, in terms of the risk / reward at the bubble it can be correct to fold a hand such as Ace-King even if you know your experienced opponent is pushing any 2 cards – if you are capable of understanding why this is (and acting on it!) then you will find the Double or Nothing SNGs very profitable indeed. Poker Stars is our #1 choice for Double or Nothing SNGs – with lower rake than other sites and huge traffic volumes at each level, Stars again out play the opposition.

[AJ]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy What I've noticed on stars is the number of higher level players at the low level coolers, i don't normally see many silver star players at my levels, but have seen plenty this week, I assume they are grinding a large number of tables

[robilaruk]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

If anyone wants further reading on this' date=' there's a 106 page thread on 2plus2 :loon [url']http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36/stt-strategy/official-double-nothing-thread-252333/

Am stopping at page 32 for the time being (am just using PL as a bookmark:rollin) Damo

[staffy]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Some very interesting articles there and I am quite surprised how popular these coolers are becoming. Surely good players will do well due to so many bad players. That is why the bad players are playing as they think they can win for once. I have also noticed silver and even gold star players playing low level games. Although multi tabling these you would soon rack up your fpp's

[aldric]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Interesting hand from tonight... Is this how to play 22?! This is a 10 Euro Cooler. ***** Hand 1310857780 ***** 50.00/100.00 Texas Holdem (No Limit ) - 07 November 2008 23:39:01 Cooler (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: ladadol (1275.00) Seat 2: PL-Aldric (1915.00) Seat 3: Unknown (0.00) Seat 4: Ina Scot (2420.00) Seat 5: denver$$$$ (2785.00) Seat 6: DJShiwa (2560.00) Seat 7: ichno (2275.00) Seat 8: Unknown (0.00) Seat 9: 1serge (150.00) Seat 10: Mixdtc76 (1620.00) DJShiwa post SB 50.00 ichno post BB 100.00 ** Deal ** ladadol [N/A, N/A] PL-Aldric [Jd, 10s] Ina Scot [N/A, N/A] denver$$$$ [N/A, N/A] DJShiwa [N/A, N/A] ichno [N/A, N/A] 1serge [N/A, N/A] Mixdtc76 [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** 1serge All-in 150.00 Mixdtc76 Fold ladadol Raise to 350.00 PL-Aldric Fold Ina Scot Fold denver$$$$ Fold DJShiwa Fold ichno Call 350.00 *** Flop(Board): *** : [10d, 4d, 5c] *** Bet Round 2 *** ichno Check ladadol Bet 450.00 ichno All-in 1925.00 ladadol All-in 925.00 *** Turn(Board): *** : [10d, 4d, 5c, 2d] *** River(Board): *** : [10d, 4d, 5c, 2d, 5h] *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 2750.00 ladadol [Ks, Kd] Two pair kings and fives Win: 0.00 PL-Aldric Fold Win: 0.00 Ina Scot Fold Win: 0.00 denver$$$$ Fold Win: 0.00 DJShiwa Fold Win: 0.00 ichno [2c, 2s] Full house Win: 2750.00 1serge [Ac, Ad] Two pair aces and fives Win: 0.00

[slapdash]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

Interesting hand from tonight... Is this how to play 22?!

I think that, on balance, I'd say ... no. :tongue2

[aldric]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

I think that' date=' on balance, I'd say ... no. :tongue2[/quote'] Well, it can't be often that 22 beats AA and KK... surely it must be...!! :lol

[Fonzie14]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Don't see the problem....:tongue2

[robilaruk]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

Interesting hand from tonight... Is this how to play 22?! This is a 10 Euro Cooler. ichno [2c, 2s] Full house Win: 2750.00

This is interesting have played ichno a few times tonight and I would say he played 'generally correctly' in the all those games. Tight early and shoving when he needed to. Noticed a few other names on there as well (mixdtc, ladadol and ina scot) who seem regular on the 5.5 and 11 euro games Hmmm, need to have a rethink about ichno perhaps? Damo

[aldric]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

This is interesting have played ichno a few times tonight and I would say he played 'generally correctly' in the all those games. Tight early and shoving when he needed to. Noticed a few other names on there as well (mixdtc, ladadol and ina scot) who seem regular on the 5.5 and 11 euro games Hmmm, need to have a rethink about ichno perhaps? Damo

Well, Ichno certainly helped me cash in that game :ok Does that mean i've played against you a few times? I don't know your username on boss.

[robilaruk]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

Well, Ichno certainly helped me cash in that game :ok Does that mean i've played against you a few times? I don't know your username on boss.

Robilaruk - don't think we played each other last night? Damo

[aldric]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

Robilaruk - don't think we played each other last night? Damo

Nope, definately not. I will look out for you :ok There was someone with a PL-xxxx username from Carlisle but he/she ignored me.

[slapdash]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Help! :loon I'm playing a cooler and I have more than 5000 chips. Never been here before! What do I do? :\

[GaF]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

What do I do? :\

Open another table.

[slapdash]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

Open another table.

I'm trying, but it's stuck on 3 players registered. :lol Never mind, I lost half my chips and I'm back in my comfort zone. :ok

[GaF]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy lol - How did you lose half your chips? I thought you of anyone would be disciplined enough to fold any 2 cards

[slapdash]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

lol - How did you lose half your chips? I thought you of anyone would be disciplined enough to fold any 2 cards

Discipline, schmiscipline! :\ Don't think I've played this one very well. :rollin Update: just cashed, anyway. :eyes

[GaF]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Any general thoughts on showing cards in these? Unlike most forms of poker, there's no deception required in this (not in the early and mid stages at least) - the strategy is to play tight and raise when you have Aces or Kings and you pretty much want people to fold. You also want to create an image so that when you do play later, you again want people to fold. Basically you pretty much always want others to fold - the main goal is to win chips without showdowns. So if you're always showing AA or KK, will that not help you in that quest?

[aldric]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

So if you're always showing AA or KK' date=' will that not help you in that quest?[/quote'] But you are lucky to get 1 of those throughout the length of a cooler. I would end up showing AK, AQ and later in the game Ax or a PP and I doubt that would make anyone fold. Also playing multible tables it would be another button to click... I always have never show cards selected.

[GaF]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy I just had a game where I got Aces and Kings about 4 times :loon

[aldric]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

I just had a game where I got Aces and Kings about 4 times :loon

So thats how you cash so often?!?! :lol

[daftpegasus]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy An interesting & educational hand from a €30 cooler game I was involved in last night. It's bubble time and there are 2 big stacks, I'm comfortable and 3 shorter stacks. Since I folded my hand I've changed the hand history so you get to see the critical hand. As the second biggest stack (ASPIQ) you get dealt KK UTG. The big stack is in the SB and has been raising about 75% of hands with any two cards taking down the blinds. With KK there must be a great chance of taking out one of the smaller stacks particularly workingfats since he has nearly half his stack invested in the BB already. What do you do?

• Fold, assuming that ReggaeBull will go up against the BB with any two cards?
• Call, hoping to get other limpers into the pot so there's more chance of taking one player out?
• Raise, you have a premium hand, worst case is that everyone folds and the BB has about 400 chips left. If you raise, how much do you raise it up to?

***** Hand 1313567853 ***** 200.00/400.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 09 November 2008 23:00:11 Cooler (Real/Tournament) Seat 1: wokingfats (824.00) Seat 7: Daft Pegas (1665.00) Seat 2: ASPIQ (2614.00) Seat 5: orange22 (1160.00) Seat 8: katusha1 (715.00) Seat 9: ReggaeBull (8022.00) ReggaeBull post SB 200.00 wokingfats post BB 400.00 ** Deal ** wokingfats [N/A, N/A] Daft Pegas [N/A, N/A] ASPIQ [:Kd:, :Kc:] orange22 [N/A, N/A] katusha1 [N/A, N/A] ReggaeBull [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 ***

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy Fold, he's extremely likely to cash without needing to put any of his chips at risk

[staffy]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy I would like to riase this to about 1k. that covers all the small stacks if they call but leaves you enough if the big stack goes over the top and you decide to fold. It would still leave you with more than enough to survuve and make the money.

[staffy]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy You actually want the small stack and the big stack to call you, more chance of you knocking the small stack out. Does not matter if you lose.

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy But WILL the large stack call you? Or if the SB shoves his stack all-in, the BB won't call, he can take a back seat with the few chips he has left, and see if you get knocked out. Would you then make the call with KK, and risk going out before some much shorter stacks? Much easier just to fold your KK and not put yourself in an unnecessary tricky situation

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

Nope, definately not. I will look out for you :ok There was someone with a PL-xxxx username from Carlisle but he/she ignored me.

might have been mad duke :loonif so he was probly too drunk to read the chat:lol:lol

[AJ]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy

I would like to riase this to about 1k. that covers all the small stacks if they call but leaves you enough if the big stack goes over the top and you decide to fold. It would still leave you with more than enough to survuve and make the money.

I agree, but it depends if the SB is smart enough to check it down to the river, which is clearly the +EV play for you both. A few times recently I've been at the bubble with me and another person in a hand with the shortest stack, and had the other large stack raise me hard at the turn or river. It drives me mad. Heres a recent example I had AA, other large stack had 10 10, shorty on AQ. Shorty is all in, we have him covered, Nothing of note on the flop. The guy with 10s (who has me covered, pushes all-in on the flop), I only have 33$ of chips in the middle so I fold (I'd have folded if I could have seen his cards), Can't take a chance of the short stack winning the hand and me losing the side pot and going out. Shorty spikes an Queen on the river and takes the pot triples up and is right back in the game. Why does he try and drive me from the pot ? I can't grasp it.

[daftpegasus]

[slapdash]

Re: Coolers - lets discuss strategy I know I'm after-eventing, as I didn't reply before you posted the outcome. When I'm in a comfortable position for cashing, what I try to do is not to put a significant number of chips at risk unless I'm absolutely sure it's right (sadly, I don't always manage to be that disciplined :sad). So here, with the possibility of the big stack reraising, I'd have folded. I'm not sure that's optimal, but it's definitely at most a tiny mistake, so I'll save my energy for the decisions that really matter. I think calling is definitely better than raising, though, for the reasons you've mentioned. As things played out, I think he could have got away from the hand. I'm pretty sure it must be right to fold, even to a min-raise, once the small stacks are out of the hand, and he'd still be a big favourite to cash. Even if you ruled out AA for the big stack, by reraising when he "shouldn't" he's shown that he might well call an all-in rereraise. At most I think he should call the reraise, in which case he should obviously give up when there's an ace on the flop.