Aidymac Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Am i the only one that is sort of not really looking forward to Frankel's race tomorrow? It is the best horse i have ever seen, and is amazing to watch, but in my opinion the race is a complete farce, with only 3 opponents, 1 of them being a pace-maker for Frankel, which leaves 2 opponents... Gabrial has no chance whatsoever, so that makes it a 2 horse race, Frankel v Farhh.. It is a farce in my opinion, why is there only 4 runners in the race? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHills Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow There were only four in it last year Aidy but that was the Frankel v Canford Cliffs battle so no one was bothered about the field size. I just think the mile division at the very top is not that big and the rest of them have been well beaten all year and connections have decided to try and win something elsewhere and avoid Frankel. Can you blame them really? Hope he wins in a canter so he runs at York in three or four weeks time and i'll be there to see him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow There were only four in it last year Aidy but that was the Frankel v Canford Cliffs battle so no one was bothered about the field size. I just think the mile division at the very top is not that big and the rest of them have been well beaten all year and connections have decided to try and win something elsewhere and avoid Frankel. Can you blame them really? Hope he wins in a canter so he runs at York in three or four weeks time and i'll be there to see him. I just hope Frankel hoses up too BH. I presume there is some quite reasonable prize-money for 2nd and 3rd tomorrow? Do you have any idea what 2nd and 3rd will get in this race tomorrow BH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowgli77 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow I just hope Frankel hoses up too BH. I presume there is some quite reasonable prize-money for 2nd and 3rd tomorrow? Do you have any idea what 2nd and 3rd will get in this race tomorrow BH? Aidy - the winner gets £179k, 2nd gets £68k, 3rd gets £34k and 4th gets £16k. It says on RP that 37 entered at cost of £1000 and 8 paid £500 to enter. Even if Bullet Train goes off like a train and then fades to last it will still pick up 16k for doing so, not bad for a £1k entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow Aidy - the winner gets £179k' date=' 2nd gets £68k, 3rd gets £34k and 4th gets £16k. It says on RP that 37 entered at cost of £1000 and 8 paid £500 to enter. Even if Bullet Train goes off like a train and then fades to last it will still pick up 16k for doing so, not bad for a £1k entry.[/quote'] That is exactly my point Mowgli. Why aren't trainers entering a horse just for a run out and to pick up 16k plus?? No wonder Cecil keeps entering Bullet Train, he keeps getting small fields and guaranteed big lumps of prizemoney, even if finishing a full furlong behind the winner each time. Or are you saying that only 4 were allowed to enter the race??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowgli77 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow That is exactly my point Mowgli. Why aren't trainers entering a horse just for a run out and to pick up 16k plus?? No wonder Cecil keeps entering Bullet Train, he keeps getting small fields and guaranteed big lumps of prizemoney, even if finishing a full furlong behind the winner each time. Or are you saying that only 4 were allowed to enter the race??????? I don't know how far prize money would have gone if there were more runners. They often pay down to about 6th place in some races. It looks like there were originally 45 entries in total (35 at £1000 and 8 at £500) and that is probably down to when you enter the horse, hence some often not being entered for a race originally and then having to be supplemented at huge cost. You could have a donkey like Sos Brillante and run it here and probably pick up prize money, surprised it hasn't shown up here really. It wasn't a case of only 4 allowed to enter the race but with only 4 participating that is how they have split the prize money. I suppose back then at entry stage you might not expect so many to dodge the race but if they all keep swerving Frankel it would make sense to enter your horse and pick up the scraps of prize money if possible when fields end up so small. You often see it over the jumps when a horse rated about 2 stone below an odds on favourite goes off at 200-1 but picks up bits of prize money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow I don't know how far prize money would have gone if there were more runners. They often pay down to about 6th place in some races. It looks like there were originally 45 entries in total (35 at £1000 and 8 at £500) and that is probably down to when you enter the horse' date=' hence some often not being entered for a race originally and then having to be supplemented at huge cost. You could have a donkey like Sos Brillante and run it here and probably pick up prize money, surprised it hasn't shown up here really. It wasn't a case of only 4 allowed to enter the race but with only 4 participating that is how they have split the prize money. I suppose back then at entry stage you might not expect so many to dodge the race but if they all keep swerving Frankel it would make sense to enter your horse and pick up the scraps of prize money if possible when fields end up so small. You often see it over the jumps when a horse rated about 2 stone below an odds on favourite goes off at 200-1 but picks up bits of prize money.[/quote'] Pawan springs to mind. Didn't it run in the big fields? And Kinkeel over the jumps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing Bailey Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow It really is a shame, but at least Godolphin entered Farhh. Everyone else may well be playing for 2nd place but surely that is a big enough pot for some owners/trainers to go for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow Why don't they they run Frankel over longer distances like 1m2f and 1m4f ? His full younger brother gets the trip. His full older brother won the Lingfield Derby Trail. Seems they are keen to keep his unbeaten record by avoiding horses in other divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow Why don't they they run Frankel over longer distances like 1m2f and 1m4f ? His full younger brother gets the trip. His full older brother won the Lingfield Derby Trail. Seems they are keen to keep his unbeaten record by avoiding horses in other divisions. He runs at York on the 22nd August over 1m2f all being well, and hopefully that 'risk' on part of Frankel stepping up in trip will be enticing enough to see a fair few entries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowles10 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow not frankels fault if it scares off all the horses, pity for the spectacle as we should just see Frankel win by about 5l+ but only beating 1 decent horse isnt ideal for racing the likes of hannon, stoute and gosden not entering anything is a shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowgli77 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow Why don't they they run Frankel over longer distances like 1m2f and 1m4f ? His full younger brother gets the trip. His full older brother won the Lingfield Derby Trail. Seems they are keen to keep his unbeaten record by avoiding horses in other divisions. That's the criticism aimed at the horse at the moment. I read on another forum someone saying they had tried to get Frankel to sit in behind horses and settle on the gallops but it was getting run close by a handicapper. Seems far fetched but some seem to be in the know and there are still plenty that want to crab its form. If it stays over 1m it will probably be known as the best miler ever yet if it manages to win over 10f it really will shut the critics up and announce itself as one of the best ever seen. I personally think it will get 10f and in a recent RP column I think it was Richard Hughes who suggested it would win the Arc if it ran in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedthewolf Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow Slightly off subject but after reading over the thread and weighing everything up recently i think trainers have a cheek to boycott races complaining of low prize money ok the recent boycott was jumping trainers at Worcester but flat trainers whinge aswell yet the likes of this race because of Frankel they don't want to know even with loads of dosh on offer it just dilutes their argument imo. Moan over.... good god i get grumpier the nearer i get to 50:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayalexander Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 That is an excellent reply, Ted, and one that I really think should be getting a response from the trainers! They can't have it both ways Sent from my GT-I9100 using PL Forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow Would love to see him tackle the Arc followed by the Breeders Cup Turf. Mostly likely we'll see him finish off in the Champion Stakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithbeaky Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow Why don't they they run Frankel over longer distances like 1m2f and 1m4f ? His full younger brother gets the trip. His full older brother won the Lingfield Derby Trail. Seems they are keen to keep his unbeaten record by avoiding horses in other divisions. He will win over 1m2 twice this season, retire on 15/15 and be the greatest racehorse ever. They are not avoiding horses in other divisions, he would have won the King George if he ran in it. Can you not see why he was never going to run at more than a mile last year? He is so much more mature this season and has finally learnt to use and control his incredible power and strength. Was this a fish? You got me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithbeaky Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow That's the criticism aimed at the horse at the moment. I read on another forum someone saying they had tried to get Frankel to sit in behind horses and settle on the gallops but it was getting run close by a handicapper. Seems far fetched but some seem to be in the know and there are still plenty that want to crab its form. If it stays over 1m it will probably be known as the best miler ever yet if it manages to win over 10f it really will shut the critics up and announce itself as one of the best ever seen. I personally think it will get 10f and in a recent RP column I think it was Richard Hughes who suggested it would win the Arc if it ran in that. Complete nonsense re settling on the gallops. Last year they couldn't control him properly but nothing could still get near him. This year they cant go fast enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowgli77 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow Complete nonsense re settling on the gallops. Last year they couldn't control him properly but nothing could still get near him. This year they cant go fast enough. It's on TRF, seem to be a few Frankel knockers on there. I think it gets 10f standing on its head and I'll be at York in a few weeks to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow He will win over 1m2 twice this season, retire on 15/15 and be the greatest racehorse ever. They are not avoiding horses in other divisions, he would have won the King George if he ran in it. Can you not see why he was never going to run at more than a mile last year? He is so much more mature this season and has finally learnt to use and control his incredible power and strength. Was this a fish? You got me You can't say for certain he'll win over 1m2f , its very likely but there are no certainties. Same applies to the King George if he ran. Why 3 races over a mile , what has he proved this year execpt he is in the same/better form as last year.He's had ample time time to step up in trip but they haven't. Prior to the 2000 Guineas last year they were considering the Derby as an option , the way he ran his race suggested the Epsom Derby at that moment in time wouldn't suit so they kept him at a mile. As for the last part of your statement about finally learning to control his power and strength. That is just pure commentary. What does that actually mean ?Do you have insider knowledge? Are you able to speak to horses? Fish ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow Just for interest............ I've been doing some speed ratings for the main turf festivals this year and I've got Frankel still improving........his run at Goodwood was faster on the ratings than his win at Royal Ascot, even tho' the latter was visually much more impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithbeaky Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow You can't say for certain he'll win over 1m2f , its very likely but there are no certainties. Same applies to the King George if he ran. Why 3 races over a mile , what has he proved this year execpt he is in the same/better form as last year.He's had ample time time to step up in trip but they haven't. Prior to the 2000 Guineas last year they were considering the Derby as an option , the way he ran his race suggested the Epsom Derby at that moment in time wouldn't suit so they kept him at a mile. As for the last part of your statement about finally learning to control his power and strength. That is just pure commentary. What does that actually mean ?Do you have insider knowledge? Are you able to speak to horses? Fish ? Can you not see how much he has improved this season? Pure commentary? Compare the Guineas run with this years races. Ok in the Sussex and QEII last year he was halfway there and in the Lockinge this year you could see how much he had progressed mentally. If you dont understand that Id give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted August 4, 2012 Author Share Posted August 4, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow Can you not see how much he has improved this season? Pure commentary? Compare the Guineas run with this years races. Ok in the Sussex and QEII last year he was halfway there and in the Lockinge this year you could see how much he had progressed mentally. If you dont understand that Id give up. The only fish here is you, looking for an argument. Jog on if you have nothing positive to offer. Horse racing is all about opinions, every one has their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithbeaky Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow The only fish here is you' date=' looking for an argument. Jog on if you have nothing positive to offer. Horse racing is all about opinions, every one has their own.[/quote'] Sorry, Toby. I cant express my opinion then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted August 4, 2012 Author Share Posted August 4, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow Sorry' date=' Toby. I cant express my opinion then?[/quote'] You could try express an opinion without passing an insult. No? Too difficult? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow Can you not see how much he has improved this season? Pure commentary? Compare the Guineas run with this years races. Ok in the Sussex and QEII last year he was halfway there and in the Lockinge this year you could see how much he had progressed mentally. If you dont understand that Id give up. You are correct its all about opinion and we are all entitled to them , just like we are entitled to challenge them. As I said earlier , how can we truly understand the mentality of horses and make statements about them. I hold my hands up and say I don't undersatnd that but that doesn't mean I should give up. Progression is applicable to most horses from 2 to 3 and 3 to 4 , even donkeys , claimers and sellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithbeaky Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow He's all right that one. As said he didn't settle or stay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizzkid walter Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow I was there today and I feel privileged that I was. Absolutely breathtaking performance, slamming a genuinely top class horse in St Nicholas Abbey and made him look ordinary. He could probably win at any trip from 5f to 1m6f. He's just a monster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattmcandrew Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow I'd try him in the National. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHills Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow I was there today and I feel privileged that I was. Absolutely breathtaking performance' date=' slamming a genuinely top class horse in St Nicholas Abbey and made him look ordinary. He could probably win at any trip from 5f to 1m6f. He's just a monster[/quote'] Totally agree, was there too and the atmosphere was amazing, the first time i have experienced that king of affection for a horse on the flat. Saw Big Bucks land his last World Hurdle and that was immense and then when Kauto ran in the Gold Cup last year and was applauded by all for pulling up!! Didnt think the flat crowd had it in them but today proved the Racing public just want a hero to cheer and they certainly have one, terrific stuff and so glad i made the trip despite the horrendous journey!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKI Punter Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Re: Frankel Tomorrow Just been watching Frankel's 4yo races. He really is an unbelievable horse and it's hard to see how anything that's ever lived would have got him off the bridle on merit. I really rate Excelebration, and watching the Queen Anne again is just ridiculous. To be prominent off a strong pace, absolutely hack into the lead over two furlongs out and sprint clear in that fashion is just absolutely unbelievable. The others closed on the tiring Excelebration but he went with Frankel, nothing else did. I cringe when I read people mention the St James Palace and proximity of Zoffany (yes, they still do). He was ridden five furlongs out. Yes, five. No other horse could have sustained his effort all the way to the line under maximum pressure for that long. Zoffany was miles behind turning in and swept past horses who'd tried bridging the gap far earlier. I can't pick a most impressive performance. The Guineas was amazing, the Queen Anne equally and the Juddmonte was ridiculous. I can't believe that with a fierce pace over 10f a horse can be cruising, on the bridle, two lengths clear after being near last turning in and without having been asked a question. Had he swapped positions with St Nic during the race and kicked slightly earlier, I've absolutely no doubt that he would have recorded a TF rating close to 150. He has not been extended once in his four-year old career, yet has managed to become the highest ever rated horse with Timeform. He's still unexposed with the ceiling of his ability thoroughly unknown. He has led, been prominent, midfield and held-up last. He can literally do anything. The only small nag I have is the fact that we likely won't see him over 12f and that he didn't get to take in more races at 10f. It's said quite often but we will, without question, not see the likes of this horse for a long, long time. It's been an absolute privilege to have witnessed true thoroughbred perfection. We are so very lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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