Antepost > Championship > 2012-13

[aliando]

I'm interested to see how Zola does tbh. I think Steve Clark was a big influence for him before, which he won't have this time.

[waynecoyne]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13

Jones knows the league well and will (more than likely) utilise the loan Market effectively. I had Sheffield Wednesday e/w last season and found they lacked out and out goalscorers as a problem. May be different this season' date=' particularly if he can get some in on loan. I'd expect them to be effective defensively, difficult to beat but top 10 finish, at best. Will be interesting to get some owls' views.[/quote'] dave jones did a fantastic job last year taking a team who were in danger of dropping out of the play off positions to automatic promotion. The final day team included loanees michail antonio, keith tracey, danny batth and nile ranger. jones has brought in so far gk chris kirkland rb kieran lee (ex man utd and oldham player of year) lb joe mattock cb anthony gardner (palace player of year) mf diogo amado probably as cover for semedo, attacker chris maguire from derby-fell out with clough but looks to have promise. All fairly low key and mandaric seems to be not wanting to spend on transfer fees-£200k spent on maguire so far. These additions add to the following players who should be ok at championship level: rb lewis buxton cb miguel llera lb reda johnson talisman jose semedo and cf gary madine. Of the loanees antonio was key and for wednesday to make a push this year he needs to be signed-we are haggling over the fee apparently. We probably need another cb as batth was also key, ranger was hit and miss but another forward is required and either treacy or another winger. We also have players who may or may not be good enough at this level:cb beevers, mf lines, the enigmatic jermaine johnson, giles coke, ryan lowe and chris o'grady. At present i think we are likely to finish in mid-table. If we sign antonio, another winger, cb and striker play offs should be a realistic objective. I do think Jones is the best manager we have had since Ron Atkinson and if mandaric supports him we could surprise a few. So wait for further signings and then re-assess. I have been impressed with huddersfield's signings so far and if they keep jordan rhodes should have a good season. Expect also Colin and papa smurf to have a fall out before too long. Barnsley may do better than expected i.e. survive.

[Kenton Schweppes]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13 I love all the praise for my team,Huddersfield, and we are a good price real good value, but its a bridge too far at the minute. Grayson has made some good signings and I'm pleased with the shape the squad is taking but successive promotions, no chance. Top 10 will do us Town fans at the minute. I probably will take a punt on us, more in hope than expectation though.

[Mirage]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13 0.5/10 Each-Way Middlesbrough to win the Championship - 22/1 with SkyBet (1/4 odds 1-3) I'm a massive Boro fan but I am also realist so haven't ever backed them pre-season before now. I think there is reason for optimism ahead of this campaign and think this price is a bit too big. This is a squad that isn't without areas for improvement still but overall I like what I see. Firstly, we have a manager who knows what it takes to be promoted from this division and I really do rate him as the best one we have had in a while. He is a Boro bloke through and through and the fans are 100% behind him and have been patient with him as he has tried to get his own players in that will play how he wants us to. For me, this is the first season where we can say that this is his squad. He has got rid of a lot of players from the wage bill and a lot of average bodies whilst the likes of McManus and McDonald will probably move on before the end of August. Of the players to go out, Barry Robson is the only one I think we will miss. His determination and enthusiasm on the pitch was infectious and he could get the crowd and the rest of the team going on his own when we needed it. However, he is getting on a bit so I think this was probably the right time to make a change. Hopefully, Matthew Bates and Justin Hoyte won't sign contracts as I rate neither. Bates is injury-prone, likes the footballers lifestyle too much and is not a leader in the heart of defence. I've seen him command the dancefloors in the nightclubs of Boro better than he commands his own box on the pitch. He brings a lot of distractions and was looking willing to leave the club before his injury for better money so hopefully we'll cut our ties with him over the summer. Hoyte is good going forward but very dodgy going the other way so I am hoping McMahon is kept and not him. McMahon has never been given a proper chance in my opinion as he his solid going both ways, works hard and is a good leader. If he lines up as our first choice right-back next season I will be happy with that. He has already stated he is looking to sign a new contract with us. I have been impressed with the signings coming in. Parnaby returning is a solid move and, like McMahon, I would be happy to see him in the starting eleven when the season kicks off. Ledesma will need time to settle but he is the type of player that will fit in to Mowbray's way of playing. He runs with the ball, has a bit of a creative spark and can score as well as assist so I think he is a good signing. Leadbitter is a solid Championship player and is the replacement for Robson. He gets stuck in and is tidy enough on the ball - that is what we need in the centre if Thomson is going to continue being in and out of the squad. Woodgate, in my view, isn't a great signing purely because he isn't guaranteed to be fit and is 32 year old so to give him a 3 year deal isn't something I would have done. If he does put in 25+ games this season he will no doubt be one of the divisions top defenders. He isn't an out-and-out leader but alongside someone like Hines or Williams he will be a class act and the partnership would be good. There is talk that Andre Amougou may come in so, although we aren't short of players at centre back, he would be a good signing to strengthen the defence. If Woodgate stays fit he will prove to be a good singing but, as we all know, that is a big 'if'. Mowbray is looking for another keeper to come in and challenge Jason Steele so I think we're alright in that area The defence is solid with the players previously mentioned as well as the constantly improving Joe Bennett at left-back. Bennett is far from the finished article but is getting closer to having his defensive play somewhere close to his brilliant ability going forward. Up front we have some good options. Emnes scores goals so, although I don't rate him as being technically that great, he is a good player to have here. Jutkiewicz is a very good player in this division. He has a fantastic work-rate, bullies defenders and can finish as well as putting in a shift for the team. Curtis Main got a lot of playing time in the second half of last season so should improve this year. If McDonald stays he will be good to have on the bench but if he does go there will no doubt be a replacement coming in. The same goes for Emnes in that if someone offers good money (i'd gladly accept 2 million or more), Mowbray will put it to good use. In midfield the likes of Leadbitter, Thomson, Bailey, Haroun and Arca are all good players who put themselves about. Mowbray has said there will be more signings and the only things I think we are lacking are a bit more creativity in midfield (if he isn't planning on putting Ledesma in the line-up straight away) and maybe a wide man or two. I think everyone is expecting a goalkeeper to come in soon. Other than that I think the squad is looking good. I wouldn't have us down as one of the favourites myself as there are some squads who, at this moment in time, look stronger and deeper. I think there are at least 12 teams in this division who i'd expect to be challenging for top 6 spot so the stake isn't massive. It is always a tight division. I would have us around the 14/1-16/1 mark so I am willing to take a punt at this price. The price is what it is because there are still some gaps to be plugged but I am willing to put my trust in Mowbray doing that. I will get involved now in case it does drop should the gaffer continue to spend impressively.

[SecondSight]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13 Mirage -As a Boro fan as well I would say you are a very brave man . The Championship looks tougher than last season and Mogga has to cut the wage bill by several million due to loss of the last parachute payment. 10 players have left including our best player in my opinion (Robson), Bates will be badly missed if he does not resign too. There is still some of Strachan's poor Scottish signings there. The signings made by Mogga this season look fine, but he is still 6 players down, his wage bill is rumoured to be £7m against a clutch of clubs that have wage bills of £25m plus. If we get a top 6 spot Mogga should be made a freeman of the Town, it would be a very major achievement given the resource differences. I would need over 30.0 to tempt me. Leeds look too short easy to get sucked in on big club image - they dropped away last season under Warnock (supposedly best Championship manager according to people on here - he's probably the oldest). I would rather back Coyle at Bolton, he got Burnley up and will have a bigger budget than Warnock unless a billionaire buys Leeds. The Forest price looks short - quite a bit of new spending looks priced into that price and its not certain it will happen and what do the owners know about the Championship and will they always be around flashing the cash. Blackpool probably offer some value - all the set up there know what the Championship is about and they have some parachute payments left.They were the form team at the end of last season.

[Jase82]

Blackpool concede too many goals for me. If they could tighten up at the back and still score enough, getting the balance right between attack and defence, they'd be worth a shot. As it is they're too open.

[SecondSight]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13 Jase - I agree they will concede but their goal difference was very good and they were unlucky in the play off final and easily breezed past Brum in the Semi. I think they suffered a bit of Premiership fall out in the first half of last season, but after Reading were the best Championship side of the second half of the season. I think they have a 20% chance of promotion so have taken the 11/2 with B365 as it reps some value. I have also backed Palace for relegation - their better players seem to be leaving (Ambrose etc) and I suspect there is not a lot of cash there. The standard of the Championship will be higher this year and they could well face a relegation battle. At present I would say they have approx 1 in 4 chance of relegation so the 10/3 with B365 reps value.

[Jase82]

Agree about palace. Another one for relegation I like the look of is derby. They've also not been heading in the right direction for a while now and I think they lack real quality. With a lot of clubs improving and investing heavily this season, and the promoted/relegated clubs looking fairly strong, I'd expect them to be somewhere in the lower reaches of the league. Getting sucked into a relegation scrap isn't highly unlikely.

[Mindfulness]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13 I think if you look at the Palace squad as it stands today (14th July) then it's fairly reasonable for folks to take a punt on us for relegation this season as we would be in that mix of 8 teams or so to drop out. The wider reality is that our personnel situation just happens to be in a trough at this very momment. CPFC2010 have stated that they expect the squad to be stronger than it was last year and I expect us to sign 3 or 4 more decent players before the transfer window closes. The biggest loss for us will be Anthony Gardner, he was a really decent centre-back for this level and formed a good partnership with McCarthy. We've bought in Aaron Martin from Southampton and Saints fans seems to think he will be a good player at this level. Even so I expect another CB will come in before the window closes. Joel Ward will replace Clyne like for like so no problems there. Scannell didn't push on and develop as many would have hoped at the club, despite being a fans favourite his contribution was fairly negligible in 2011-2012. He just couldn't fit into Freedman's system, another Tom Soares? for his career I hope not. I wont deny the loss of Ambrose will be felt, he was a great player to have in your squad at this level because of his set-pieces and match winning ability. Unfortunately the guy is not a left winger and so you can't have your highest earner sitting on the bench for half the season so it was time to say goodbye. In terms of progress for the 1st team it was time he moved on but I would have liked him to stay because he would be a great asset to have in your squad at this level. So really from this point on I expect us to sign another centre-back (competition), left-sided attacking winger (1st team) and a proper out and out striker (1st team). With those additional aquisitions I think we will be capable of finishing in the top half no problems. I can't be bothered to go into a full on Palace seminar for the time being but I would say beware to those who are backing Palace for relegation as it's a distorted picture at this very momment. I'm hoping the bookies will find it hard to price Palace correctly much like last year and we can make some nice margins on the mighty eagles once again in 2012/2013!!! In Doog we trust.

[Mirage]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13

Mirage -As a Boro fan as well I would say you are a very brave man . The Championship looks tougher than last season and Mogga has to cut the wage bill by several million due to loss of the last parachute payment. 10 players have left including our best player in my opinion (Robson), Bates will be badly missed if he does not resign too. There is still some of Strachan's poor Scottish signings there. The signings made by Mogga this season look fine, but he is still 6 players down, his wage bill is rumoured to be £7m against a clutch of clubs that have wage bills of £25m plus. If we get a top 6 spot Mogga should be made a freeman of the Town, it would be a very major achievement given the resource differences. I would need over 30.0 to tempt me.

See, I think the complete opposite on some of the issues you have raised. Mogga has said before we don't NEED to sell any more so that will do for me. Bates is no great miss as, in my view, he is massively overrated and Robson can be replaced if there are enough quality players in the side that ensure we don't rely on one man to change the game. Also, I wouldn't say the Championship is tougher than last season. I don't think teams coming in add up to more or less than those who left through the top or bottom last year. Last year I had the impression that challenging for the play-offs was an unexpected bonus. Ths year I think if we get off to a good start it is realistic to think we can be up there. As I said, I am more of a realist than someone who thinks we can have glory each season but this year I think we have a real chance. Around the 30's may be value to you but this is more than enough for me. Value is in the eye of the beholder. EDIT: Quote never appeared properly.

[south_eastern_ram]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13

See, I think the complete opposite on some of the issues you have raised. Mogga has said before we don't NEED to sell any more so that will do for me. Bates is no great miss as, in my view, he is massively overrated and Robson can be replaced if there are enough quality players in the side that ensure we don't rely on one man to change the game. Also, I wouldn't say the Championship is tougher than last season. I don't think teams coming in add up to more or less than those who left through the top or bottom last year. Last year I had the impression that challenging for the play-offs was an unexpected bonus. Ths year I think if we get off to a good start it is realistic to think we can be up there. As I said, I am more of a realist than someone who thinks we can have glory each season but this year I think we have a real chance. Around the 30's may be value to you but this is more than enough for me. Value is in the eye of the beholder. EDIT: Quote never appeared properly.

Not so sure about that, Portsmouth, Coventry and Donny were p*ss poor last year. Shef Wed and Huddersfield have both made some shrewd signings imo and appear to have some financial backing unlike some sides that have come up in recent years like Scunny and Peterborough Bolton, Blackburn and Wolves had all been Premier League sides for a while, especially the first two, so all have got strong looking sides on paper. I dont think Southampton and Reading had particularly stand out sides, but both had momentum and confidence at the right time. You've got new owners coming in at Watford, Cardiff, Forest and Leicester in recent times which you expect will make all of them stronger. I know Leicester had theres last season but they've spent and you expect them to do so again next January.

[Mirage]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13 See, you say that Reading and Southampton never had particularly strong sides yet they still went up automatically and other more fancied sides were left in and around the play-offs. That could happen again. Who is to say Blackburn won't have another protest-infested season? That Wolves will go back to being a good Championship side and nothing more? That Leicester's signings will fail to gel? That Charlton/Sheff Wed/Huddersfield won't 'do a Southampton'? That new investors won't bring in everything they promised? I see what you are saying but for me it is hard to gauge the strength of this league year after year because of the vast amount of games. So, sides who avoid injuries to their star players, have good squads, experience, good fitness levels, momentum and a togetherness will have the best chance. Not necessarily the teams that people expect to do well. Less so than in a lot of other leagues anyway. I think both arguements here are probably 50/50 in terms of who is more accurate but this is the view I am taking.

[Mindfulness]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13

So' date=' sides who avoid injuries to their star players, have good squads, experience, good fitness levels, momentum and a togetherness will have the best chance. Not necessarily the teams that people expect to do well. Less so than in a lot of other leagues anyway.[/quote'] Agreed, the fitness and avoidance of injury to key players is simply massive at this level. Barnsley were going great guns last season under Keith Hill until the injury of Butterfield and sale of Vaz Te. After that they went into complete free fall from what looked like a potential top half finish. Look at a team like Millwall for example, when you look at their starting 11 players they are a competetive championship outfit with virtually no weak areas. However, 1 or 2 unlucky injury problems could drastically effect their form due to a lack of strength in depth. In 2011-2012 Palace went on a good cup run and got fatigue, we then lost Jedinak and Gardner to injury in the latter stages of the campaign. We went into complete meltdown and instead of finishing in the top half we ended up 17th. When people say injuries and fitness is important it sounds like stating the bloody obvious but it is a much bigger issue down here than it is in the Prem. It is a factor that is almost impossible to predict and presents antepost gamblers a real problem if they're betting on championship teams due to the divisions highly competetive nature.

[maliniok]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13 From Team Talk: "???Blackpool manager Ian Holloway wants his side to replicate the playing style of current World and European champions Spain.Holloway was among those in awe of the brand of football Vicente Del Bosque's side displayed last month at Euro 2012 as they secured their third successive international tournament title."I've analysed the performances of certain sides in the Euros this summer and I believe that we have to start dominating the ball and pressing teams when we haven't got it," Holloway told the Blackpool Gazette."The Euros was one heck of a tournament for me. It proved what I think about what Spain do and why they do it. It proved to me they are doing it right."I've prepared a number of clips from the Euros that I'm going to show to the team. They will see with their own eyes what I want."The way football is going, it's all about passing the ball all the time. I want us to be a top team who plays top football all the time. I want us to be entertaining to watch."*

[Jase82]

Can never tell with holloway when he's being tongue in cheek or not....

[SecondSight]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13 Competitiveness will be higher in the Championship because of the higher amounts of cash brought in from new investment and higher parachute payments than in the past. Mirage - Ref: Matty Bates (Boro centre half) he was the divisional player of the month in September and team was in the top 2. When he was injured Boro's form dropped and they finished 7th. This is not opinion. Of course it could be unconnected and the expert panel could have been wrong about Bates abilities. I like to see Mogga re sign when he is fit again at the end of September. We need some width in the team and another keeper.

[Mirage]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13

Competitiveness will be higher in the Championship because of the higher amounts of cash brought in from new investment and higher parachute payments than in the past. Mirage - Ref: Matty Bates (Boro centre half) he was the divisional player of the month in September and team was in the top 2. When he was injured Boro's form dropped and they finished 7th. This is not opinion. Of course it could be unconnected and the expert panel could have been wrong about Bates abilities. I like to see Mogga re sign when he is fit again at the end of September. We need some width in the team and another keeper.

First point is an assumption, there is no guarantee. Re: Bates. With a partnership that has been allowed to grow at the back, there will always be at least a half decent defence. This is due to continuity, everyone knowing their roles and everyone knowing each others roles. However, there are still situations where players are out performing others and some players needing to be bailed out more than others. Now, I watched about 95% of the Boro games at home and away last season as well as in previous seasons and have never been impressed with Bates. When asked to be captain we lacked leadership from him and his positional play is awful. Whoever he plays alongside, he was always looks to be the liability. It seems to me as though Mogga likes him due to his ability when on the ball but whilst defending he is nothing above of average. The same goes for Hoyte and Bennett, although the latter is improving rapidly. The amount of times I have seen Bates out and about on a night causing a scene is too much to count so the distraction to the likes of Bennett (who clearly follows his lead) isn't a good thing and really does sum the bloke up. He is injury prone, too. As I said before, he looked willing to jump ship before the injury for better money so hopefully he will still be on his way. I can't take anyone seriously when they're telling me that this squad player at best is anything other than that - a squad player. EDIT: Agree about what we need. It seems a goalkeeper will come in sooner rather than later so just the width to sort.

[Jase82]

Competitiveness will be higher in the Championship because of the higher amounts of cash brought in from new investment and higher parachute payments than in the past.

See I actually think it could swing the other way with some of these clubs because the championship is already as competitive as it can be. Anyone who watches the championship knows how tough it is, so I just think unless some of these clubs buy real quality they're just raising the expectation levels, which could just result in an air of underachievement. Just look at Leicester last season. When there's that added level of expectation in a field where there isn't too much room for manoeuvre, it will just create stagnation. Only two teams can get promoted, and I think the sides like Brighton where there is less expectation will do better than the rest.

[Mindfulness]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13

See I actually think it could swing the other way with some of these clubs because the championship is already as competitive as it can be. Anyone who watches the championship knows how tough it is, so I just think unless some of these clubs buy real quality they're just raising the expectation levels, which could just result in an air of underachievement. Just look at Leicester last season. When there's that added level of expectation in a field where there isn't too much room for manoeuvre, it will just create stagnation. Only two teams can get promoted, and I think the sides like Brighton where there is less expectation will do better than the rest.

Most definately, the weight of expectation is a massive drag and one which will ultimately effect the teams performance on the field. How many times have we seen it in this league when a big teams home form is much worse than it should be because of the pressure from their own fans? This is why I dread it when Palace fans start thinking about the team being promotion contenders, it tends to sour the atmosphere at Selhurst the momment things turn for the worst. When these super rich owners come in they are very hungry for instant success which is all but impossible in this league. The new Watford owners say they want promotion as soon as possible, they've sached Dyche (contender for championship manager of the year 2011-2012) and are selling their best defender. Quite frankly it sounds like a recipe for disaster, they'll float around mid-table, in 12 months time Zola will get sacked, someone else will come in and they'll be back at square one again. Super rich foreign owners are often ignorant to the difficulty of the task they are taking on and unfortunately fans seem to have short memories when it comes to remembering how to formulate success at this level.

[maliniok]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13 I agree with the above. I had a peek at Forest's fans forum because I contemplated having a bet in their next manager market (ultimately I haven'd found value) and it was bemusing - celebrations of Cotterill sacked - the very same guy who saved their arses from relegation into L1 and massive expectations on new owners.

[happyhornet]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13

I wouldn't include Watford in the 'big money to spend' sides as yet. If my read is correct' date=' the Pozzo's like to build slowly (albeit with their man at the helm) so Zola will not have a ridiculous war chest to go and buy washed up ex-internationals. Instead, we will get a few (3 or 4) loanees fron Udinese and Granada (the Pozzo's other clubs) and maybe a few quid to improve the side. As a supporter, i truly hope they do go this way, which means we will not be great value in the short term but perhaps after Xmas, we could put a spurt in for the playoffs as the squad begins to bond.[/quote'] An update on Zola's first weeks and we have been linked with all manner of players. Mariappa and Loach have gone but Loach didnt play for the 2nd half of the season, and Mariappa is replaceable. Fitz Hall comes in, I believe at CB , and 3 players from Udinese and Granada are allegedly to follow. Cudicini is having a medical it seems, and either Iaquinta or Inzaghi have been seen at Colney apparently. From a betting perspective, the board have said that this season is transitional - and whomever we do sign should not necessarily make us backable but if these players do arrive and gel, there is value week to week.

[Mindfulness]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13 Hull City to be promoted @ 12/1 (Bet365) For me this is simply an antepost bet that's too good to turn down. First off the appointment of Steve Bruce as manager is an excellent one, he is a premier league level gaffer and his arrival is a bit of a coup for the club. I believe he has won promotion twice from this divison, both times with Birmingham at the first attempt. Interestingly enough he had guided Palace to the top of the league early doors in the 2001-2002 campaign before jumping ship to the blues where he took them up in the same campaign. Needless to say he has the credentials to get the job done here in 2012-2013. When looking at Hull from last season we saw a side with a young but excellent defence, I expect this to continue despite the injury to centre-back Jack Hobbs. Despite his young age of 23, Hobbs capatained the side and had an excellent 2011-2012 campaign, forming a good defensive partnership with James Chester. Hobbs ruptured his anterior cruciate ligament in March 2012 and was expected to be out for 8 months or so. Hull have the players to step into the void imo with the likes of Paul McShane and Liam Cooper on the books. Even so, Bruce is currently looking to bring in another CB with Abdoulaye Faye rumoured to be comming in soon. Amos and Jakupovic come in to contest the goalkeeping spot so there's no lack of competition in that region. In the median playmaker Robert Koren is an important contributer and Bruce is currently trying to get him to sign a new deal as he only has a year left to run and a release clause believed to be in the region of £500,000. With 7 assists and 10 goals in the 2011-2012 campaign his departure would be a cause for concern but I believe Bruce will get him to re-sign or ultimately replace him if the worst comes the worst given the clubs current ambition. Hull's main midfield issue in 2011-2012 was the delivery/end product from wide areas. Stewart and Brady are promising players with good ability but for me their delivery into the strikers needs to be worked on. Brady has gone and may not return but Bruce has bought in Sone Aluko from Rangers who I believe will be a truly excellent aquisition. The 23 year old Nigerian has pace, skill, decent delivery and a real eye for goal to. His arrival should make Hull more dangerous from wide positions which leads me to their other main issue in 2011-2012... ...A total lack of height in the forward areas. Fryatt managed to score 16 goals in 46 apps last season but he along with Hull's other strikers have virtually no ariel threat. This is a pretty crazy dynamic to have at this level of English football as air power is a vital component to Championship football. To try and resolve this Bruce has bought in 25 year old German centre-forward Nick Proschwitz from SC Paderborn. Who I hear you ask? Well this guy was joint top scorer in Bundesliga 2 in 2011-2012, he is a very tall target man but also possesses good technical ability and mobility. He can score all kinds of different goals but he will bring that ariel threat that Hull have really been lacking. I think it's another excellent signing by Bruce and will give Hull a whole new dimension to their attack which they desperately needed. So to summarise, excellent managerial appointment followed by some excellent signings in key areas and I expect more to follow. The owners, manager and players are all intent on promotion and I beleive they now have all the ingredients to acheive this. The risks are the possible departure of Koren (which I think will turn out fine) and the injury to Hobbs, who should be back before Christmas but they have decent cover in that area anyway. Anything @10/1 and above for promotion is good value in my view and I think the 12/1 offered at Bet365 is decent here.

[Jase82]

Agree das phantom..... They look too long for both promotion and to win the league considering they are unlikely to be too far off the playoffs at the very least. The bookies seem to have them as outsiders for relegation.

[Mindfulness]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13

Agree das phantom..... They look too long for both promotion and to win the league considering they are unlikely to be too far off the playoffs at the very least. The bookies seem to have them as outsiders for relegation.

Yes I think the bookies have been a bit slow to catch on with Hull, they probably see them as a side still in decline after their Premier League demise but they've been given a real shot in the arm for 2012-2013.

[aliando]

Hull are another side that are quietly going amongst their business. Tbh I really don't rate Steve Bruce as a manager but that's a good post and it made me think of Roy keane - another example that you don't need to be a good manager to succeed at this level.

[Jase82]

Yes I think the bookies have been a bit slow to catch on with Hull' date=' they probably see them as a side still in decline after their Premier League demise but they've been given a real shot in the arm for 2012-2013.[/quote'] Tbh they weren't terrible last season. They just, as you say, lacked in certain areas going forward. Especially in the striking department because of lack of options. Defensively they've been pretty sound, and I'd expect that to remain the same under Bruce. So if they can sort their issues out, the playoffs are a distinct possibility. The signings you mention do look interesting.

[curby235]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13 Really interesting post. I will back them. Thanks

[waynecoyne]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13

Really interesting post. I will back them. Thanks

seconded, great post das phantom. the 33 will probably half before the start of the season. worth taking the 33 e/w now. their forward line should be pretty potent.

[aliando]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13 Cardiff City 2012-13 I'll start off by saying that this is a picture of the club at present, as there are a number of ongoing issues on and off the field... - Goalkeepers So far our goalkeepers seem to be one from 3. David Marshall has been our main keeper since signing from Norwich in 2009. Cup final keeper, Tom Heaton has been released with several other championship sides after him. Personally, I prefer Marshall and was happier to see him stay than Heaton. His place has been taken by Joe Lewis, signed from Peterbro - given that he only played 12 times for them last year, I'm seeing him as a back up keeper. Youngster Elliot Parish remains, but is unlikely to dislodge Marshall. We have also had 18 year old Belgian Guillaume Hubert on trial. - Defence We had a reasonably solid defence last year and there have been no significant departures, as yet. Dekkel Keinan has been given the green light to go, but he never really featured under Mackay anyway. Anthony Gerrard has also been told he can leave and there have been offers rejected for him (with Blackburn amongst his suitors). Taylor, McNaughton, Hudson and Turner look set to be our first choice but we have been strongly linked to Richard Keogh of Coventry also, with bids from several clubs reported around a million. We also have Darcy Blake to cover RB and CB (although I dont rate him as much as other Cardiff fans). I believe that we need reinforcing at the back, although our first choice line up appears fairly strong. - Midfield Importantly, Peter Whittingham has commited himself to Cardiff, despite bids from 2-3 premiership clubs. In addition, we have also kept a hold of our other key midfielders including Cowie, Conway and Gunnarson. New arrivals include Jordan Mutch (£2m from Birmingham) and Kadeem Harris (promising youngster signed from Wycombe during last season but yet to make debut) plus we also have strength in depth from the experience of Stephen McPhail plus academy players such as Joe Ralls. The biggest change here is the possible signing of Kim Bo-Kyung from Cerezo Osaka - billed as "the next big thing" to come from South Korea, it appears he has turned down much bigger clubs including Celtic, Borrusia Dortmund and Monaco. He is described as an attacking midfielder with plenty of energy and pace. He has 14 international caps and has scored 7 times in 15 appearances domestically this season. He has not signed yet, but has been widely reported as wanting to complete the deal prior to the Olympics. He has also indicated that he will use Cardiff as a way of learning the European game, ready for a big move... His £2m signing is currently awaiting international clearance to be completed. - Attack Biggest changes appear here. So far, just Kenny Miller has left, having gone to Vancouver Whitecaps. Whilst there is the view that he did not make a big enough impact with very view goals last year, I think he will be missed because of his fantastic work ethic. He has been replaced by Slovenian international Etien Velikonja from Maribor, who has just joined up with the side following his sides European Cup games. Rob Earnshaw remains but I doubt he will have much game time again this year. The young Joe Mason probably exceeded his expectations last season and I expect he will play around 50% of the games again this year. Rudy Gestede didn't have a huge impact last season, mainly because of injuries. I hope he can perform better, but not expecting anything major. We have again been linked with Craig Bellamy, although this appears to have gone quite of late. He has expressed a wish to sign for us, but this would depend on Liverpool selling and also Craig choosing us over other offers (such as being reunited with Mark Hughes at QPR). We have also taken 18 year old Omar Lawson on trial from Dulwich Hamlet, who has had similar trials with Watford and Forest. I still feel, as I did last season, that we could do with another 1-2 quality strikers who would be classed as first choice players, rather than the current crop of potentials... - Manager I think many city fans would agree that Malky Mackay over achieved last year. A play off spot and a cup final defeat on penalties was an exceptional season, particularly given that he inherited a side that had lost 12 players and come off the back of 3 end-of-season disappointments. I think he was given an air of acceptance last year that we were in transition, but I expect most of us will expect more from the team this year and be expecting a promotion challenge from the off. He has taken the squad to UEFA's headquarters in Nyon for pre-season training, which seems to have been productive. - The Board Malaysian owner Vincent Tan has heavily invested into the club already and has claimed that the club are losing £1m per week. He has a financial strategy which involves changing the famous blue army home strip from blue to red (signifies good luck in many parts of Asia) and has also changed the club emblem from a bluebird to a dragon. This has created a major divide amongst fans (particularly as the change was leaked before being announced officially) with many fans angry that there is no published business plan to demonstrate how this will work and feel that the clubs history and image is being tarnished (http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/19/sport/football/football-cardiff-ebay-fan/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fedition_sport+%28RSS%3A+Sport%29). I sit in the other camp and feel that these changes will benefit the club in the long run. I'm not overly happy about it, but I believe that Tan is an accomplished business man (he's a self made man who is now on the Forbes rich list and recently profited to the tune of $140m from facebook being listed on the stock exchange). He has publicly announced that the change in strip will mean a £100m investment into the club although it should be noted that he is including monies already invested which amounts to nearly half that figure. He is looking to remove existing debts, improve training facilities and also allow some spending for players. I believe he has commited himself to the long term involvement with Cardiff and has even set up football programmes in his native homeland under Cardiff's name. He is also exploring the opportunity to market Cardiff's fixtures to live broadcasts in 96 countries, outside of Sky and BBC, with view to increasing the exposure and marketing potential of the club (Cardiff would not directly benefit financially as any revenue from this marketing would be divided amongst all leaguee clubs but it would significantly raise the profile of the Cardiff City brand). This deal has not been formally agreed upon as yet. - The previous board Sam Hammam, despite having removed himself from Cardiff several years ago, remains as the spokesperson for Langston (the company responsible for building the new stadium). It has never been clear who Langston are nor in which capacity Hammam has been involved with them but he remains the visual person responsible for Cardiff to clear the debts with them. Several options have been put on the table but nothing has been accepted as yet. It has also been reported that Hamma has been offered life presidency of the club as a sweetner to seal the deal. I have to admit huge concerns about him being involved with Cardiff again but I'm not sure whether he's safer being with us or without us. It's clear he has profitted hugely from us but I still cannot work out whether he has helped us or used us, or both! The Langston deal has been overhanging for several years and has pushed us close to administration (although I'm sure Tan can pay any monies needed to stop this happening again, whilst he is with us). Interestingly, it was Hammam who first tried to change the clubs emblem to a gragon and also wanted a red influence on the strip... - Impression I'm cautiously looking forward to the new season. We are building an impressive squad for the championship, we have a competent manager, we have a board that appear to be ambitious and rich, but with the financial nous not to leave us being the next Portsmouth. Emotionally, I'm very cautious of being optimistic due to how we have ended the last 5 season. I would definitely put us as title challengers but this championship season looks very open and I'm not overly happy to part with my money. I think the bookies have correctly priced us fairly short and I'm not convinced there's value on us. There's a lot going on at present, off the field, and it remains to be seen how this will affect the team and the club. Without betting, I'd put us in a top 5 place, come May, and am quietly looking at automatic promotion :hope

[Bathtime For Rupert]

Re: Antepost > Championship > 2012-13 Just to give a bit of an insight from an LUFC perspective... Firstly, Leeds are never much of a betting proposition before the season starts because our name alone usually puts us in the top 6 or 7 in the betting - regardless of what's gone before. We were far too short in our first season back at this level after promotion - although funnily enough we were in the top two around Christmas. It's a difficult situation at the moment because if wealthy owners do come in our price will shorten, but do you take a price now not knowing what's happening? The takeover has supposedly been imminent for so long. Several supposedly "in the know" people believe it's all completed but we're still waiting on an announcement. We have seen some recent activity in the playing squad though and Aidan White has signed a new 3 year contract after interest from Derby and Celtic. Those worried about our defence should realise we'll have 4 new players in our back 5 this year. It should be a lot tighter: Kenny replacing Lonergan in goal. Peltier(?) replacing Connolly, Lees staying in alongside Pearce (replacing several worse CBs) and Drury (replacing a handful of seemingly worse LBs). Also have White who can play there. At present we don't have a RB really but it seems like Peltier will probably become a Leeds player at some point soon. Although it isn't an exciting defence, it should still be a lot firmer than last year. Snodgrass staying is key really because he guarantees you goals and assists at this level. If we can keep him it'll be massive as our midfield is taking better shape now. Obviously we don't know much about our new signing Rodolph Austin but he looks like a combative holding player who Stoke and QPR have wanted in the past. Him and Paul Green should be an improvement on Michael Brown and Adam Clayton, and anything on the left is better than Danny Pugh! Luke Varney and Aidan White are solid options there. With currently Becchio and McCormack up top (Andy Gray brought in for cover), they are two proven strikers at this level and even if McCormack leaves, it seems likely we'll replace him. We have a much sounder squad than last year and it's encouraging that no takeover has taken place yet and according to Warnock the "excellent" signings haven't been made yet. If you add the rumoured Lewis McGugan and Nicky Maynard into the fold we're probably not doing too bad. Personally wouldn't be getting involved I don't think at the price but we're certainly in better shape than last year - and we actually managed to be up there for quite a long way with a worse squad and playing poorer football. The next couple of weeks will be crucial but I'm a lot more optimistic for this season and Warnock has brought in plenty of leaders, former captains etc, which should help our performances at Elland Road. Far too many players have lacked leadership and/or the bottle to play for a big club/at home. It could be a good year. I certainly wouldn't put people off us, but I would recommend proceeding with caution because we don't do things easy! As things stand I'd say we've got a good chance of a top 8 finish. What happens now with regards to: A) Takeover B) Snodgrass C) "Crucial signings" Will decide just how high we can finish. It's very much in the balance now in my eyes.