Antepost > 2012/13

[HastGill1]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Will you two stop flirting and put some kind of bet on between each other? Before we are all bored to tears..

[Mindfulness]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 From the makers of 'The Irish Raider'... 'Brookeback Mountain'

[Aidymac]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

Wow you are a risk taker! I would usually be confident backing United but their squad is an accident waiting to happen, over reliant on Giggs, Scholes, and Rio who I think is not going to last the season - Vidic too, he's solid as concrete usually but just had a really bad injury he will need time to get back to his best. United are weak at fullback too. Defence patchy, midfield patchy, relying on the form of Rooney upfront along with Kagawa the new kid. Arsenal meanwhile finished the season extremely strong and have strengthened considerably, and are looking in good shape so far - though have yet to be tested in preseason after beating Anderlecht in the first half of a match where they played Southampton in the second half; game finished 2-1. And that was with a reserve squad including 4 16 yr olds. That doesn't inspire my confidence that United can start better than my own Arsenal, as well as Van Persie being told he cannot leave until next year so he is 95% staying put and leaving on a free next season if he decides not to resign after that. But if you want to bet your house on it, well you must know something I don't :) I am holding back on that until after the next round of preseason, since United still have time to buy 1 or 2 new players and Arsenal still have time to crock their entire back 5 lol

Arsenal have strengthened considerably????? You come out with good ones. :loon They just lost their best player, possibly the best striker on the planet last year. How on earth have they strengthened considerably? Lol! Brokeback Mountain. Lol, good one ya fekker. :p Ahh your not the worst Brooke, seem like a nice guy. I just think your opinions are mind-boggling.

[IAmGooner]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

Will you two stop flirting and put some kind of bet on between each other? Before we are all bored to tears..

I'm bored to tears already. Looking at some other points in the thread(and not talking to you Hastgill), Arsenal did not finish the season strongly, we f**king limped over the line, Feb and March was good when we went on a run(and got alot of luck, remember Liverpool away), the last 5 or 6 weeks we were running on empty and distinctly average. Cheers to Martin Fulop for the goals at West Brom on the final day. We will not finish ahead of United, there's just no basis for an argument there. We havent finished ahead of them since we were winning things 7 or 8 years ago. United have better defence, will concede less, and tend to score more than us every season too. Worries I'd have if I were a United fan is full-backs and centre mid, also possibly De Gea but he has an upside and was improving as the season went on. Right back looks average enough, centre mid seems good enough in the league but wont cut it in Europe and there's no depth with Fletcher still fooked with illness, Anderson is a perma-crock and overrated lump, Cleverley has done nothing for me just looks a weaker version of Carrick anyway. City and United look at a similar level to me, City probably with more star names in their best years and better X1 on paper so start as faves rightly, but I'd say value is on United right now in what looks a tight battle to me. Would like to see City get some key injuries next year, see where this world class squad depth is.

[western skies]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

Will you two stop flirting and put some kind of bet on between each other? Before we are all bored to tears..

It's a tough call, because we don't want to stifle debate (it's what PL should be all about), but I'm inclined to agree with Hast here. Brooke & Aidy - I think we can all admire your passion (and stamina!), but in truth you're both repeating the same points over and over now. Can you not agree to disagree on the Arsenal v Man U debate and move on? There are 18 other teams to argue about after all (I know I'm gonna regret saying that!). ;) Of course, if anyone else wants to bring a fresh perspective on either Arsenal or Man U, then please feel free.

[Aidymac]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

It's a tough call, because we don't want to stifle debate (it's what PL should be all about), but I'm inclined to agree with Hast here. Brooke & Aidy - I think we can all admire your passion (and stamina!), but in truth you're both repeating the same points over and over now. Can you not agree to disagree on the Arsenal v Man U debate and move on? There are 18 other teams to argue about after all (I know I'm gonna regret saying that!). ;) Of course, if anyone else wants to bring a fresh perspective on either Arsenal or Man U, then please feel free.

No problem mate. There was no malice in any of our posts, but i see your point, it is going round in circles. Let's let the fooz-ball do the talking!

[Jase82]

Will you two stop flirting and put some kind of bet on between each other? Before we are all bored to tears..

:) .... The debate seems to have been going on for an eternity doesn't it?! Maybe we should draw a line under it and see some real selections.... I can see where brooke is coming from, but united achieved 89 without vidic for most of last season, which is a huge achievement as he has been in the top five performing defenders in the league recently. However, although its likely united may struggle due to the reasons Brooke has mentioned it is quite a big ask for arsenal to make up such a large chunk of ground on united and city in under a season. The loss of van persie will be huge as its not just the goals he brings, but the lift a player like that brings to the side. If arsenal are constantly losing their best players, and van persie publicly has criticised the board, what message does that send out to the rest of the squad. I also think that over the last few years two players have been irreplaceable to arsenal; van persie and fabregas. Van persie is the last truly top drawer player they have at the club, and while I think podolski can come in and score as many should he get the same service, you have to wonder psychologically what sort of impact the loss of van persie will have on the rest of the team. If you look through the squad they are lacking in the same sort of real Quality they've had over the last five years. Just look at the left back position. Also, if you take a look at last season when Wenger tried to rest van persie, each time, he needed to throw him on from the bench to rescue or win the game. I think as well the signing of Henry has been missed from the debate. If we're making the point about united being forced to re-sign Scholes, surely Wenger re-signing Henry is equally as desperate a move, and didn't they need him a few times to win the game for them? Leeds in the cup jumps out at me initially. That should for me go some way to demonstrate that they don't have a lot of quality in depth, and that they lack a real presence on the pitch in the form of a big name player, or leader who can galvanise the squad into turning a draw into a win, or a losing position into a winning one. That for me is the issue with arsenal, and should they have any wish to challenge either Manchester club they really need that marquee signing. Podolski, as I've said, while I have no doubt he will get the goals, I'm not sure whether He is that signing they needed. Arsenal have a fantastic business model, but if they want to challenge or improve, they unfortunately need to spend well, or big. Whichever it is, to achieve that signing that will lift the club and push them to compete with the two Manchester clubs. Until that time I see them challenging for third and fourth with spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool.

[Guest]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 I don't do much antepost betting (hate the wait!) but I do like thinking about it and looking into value etc. All I did last season was for Fulham to have a top half finish. We were priced around 3 which I thought was great value. Anyway, my thoughts are below... 1. (1st) I can't see past City taking the title again. They have no reason to under perform compared to last season, however their only real direct competition (Man Utd) had a pretty poor season, when you look over the games it is remarkable that they finished equal on points with city. There were too many games where they only just scraped a win, and were pretty unconvincing. I know that ultimately all that matters is the points, but I think that the leaders will pull ahead further this year. The only real benefit for Utd is getting Vidic back IMO, there have been some signings but they are unlikely to be real game changers. 2. (2nd-4th) Next I think there will be a battle between Chelsea, Arsenal and Utd for these three spots, and I can see this being Chelsea's season given their performance after AVB left the club. With RDM nailed on now and given a chance, this should be the time for them to show their worth. I don't know how they will fare relative to Utd, but this part of the table should be interesting. 3. (5th-7th) Newcastle, Liverpool, Everton - in that order. Other than Newcastle, the clubs do not really have enough to break into the next tier, and even so it would take a lot for Newcastle to do this, probably more down to mistakes made by those in bracket 2. than anything else. 4. (8th-19th) This is where it all gets interesting in my opinion. First you have 3 newly promoted teams who are all strong on paper. I will look into odds for all promoted teams to stay up as I think that there is a real chance of this happening. Apart from Wigan, I think that all of the remaining teams are pretty much even and anything could happen. 3 promoted teams - southampton/west ham/reading 4 teams with managerial changes - swansea/norwich/wba/villa 2 teams with large personnel changes - fulham/qpr Thats 9/12 teams with fairly large changes / uncertainty involved The only team I think is due to be relegated is wigan, this will be their year if they dont buy any new players. they have lost some key players already and are showing no signs of recovery. Stoke are my next in line, which might seem a little controversial to some but they got incredible lucky last season off of referee decisions. Have a look at www.debatabledecisions.com and see the tables, they got the most 'luck' last season and would have been relegated based on this (i know that its just fantasy really and it is hard to call, but luck doesnt last forever). I would have said QPR to go down but with their investment all they need to do is to make a team stick and they will be sorted. if these players cant work together they could be in the runnings for it though. Villa should recover with the new manager (mcleish was awful) so I think they will be relatively safe. The only others that I can think of are Swansea and Norwich as both have lost the managers that brought them here in the first place. OK, so my writing has gone a little wacky, sorry, but these are my thoughts any and I think that 8th onwards will be the most competitive it has been in years, with a narrow points bracket and not much separating anyone.

[Brettfair]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

I don't do much antepost betting (hate the wait!) but I do like thinking about it and looking into value etc. All I did last season was for Fulham to have a top half finish. We were priced around 3 which I thought was great value. Anyway, my thoughts are below... 1. (1st) I can't see past City taking the title again. They have no reason to under perform compared to last season, however their only real direct competition (Man Utd) had a pretty poor season, when you look over the games it is remarkable that they finished equal on points with city. There were too many games where they only just scraped a win, and were pretty unconvincing. I know that ultimately all that matters is the points, but I think that the leaders will pull ahead further this year. The only real benefit for Utd is getting Vidic back IMO, there have been some signings but they are unlikely to be real game changers. 2. (2nd-4th) Next I think there will be a battle between Chelsea, Arsenal and Utd for these three spots, and I can see this being Chelsea's season given their performance after AVB left the club. With RDM nailed on now and given a chance, this should be the time for them to show their worth. I don't know how they will fare relative to Utd, but this part of the table should be interesting. 3. (5th-7th) Newcastle, Liverpool, Everton - in that order. Other than Newcastle, the clubs do not really have enough to break into the next tier, and even so it would take a lot for Newcastle to do this, probably more down to mistakes made by those in bracket 2. than anything else. 4. (8th-19th) This is where it all gets interesting in my opinion. First you have 3 newly promoted teams who are all strong on paper. I will look into odds for all promoted teams to stay up as I think that there is a real chance of this happening. Apart from Wigan, I think that all of the remaining teams are pretty much even and anything could happen. 3 promoted teams - southampton/west ham/reading 4 teams with managerial changes - swansea/norwich/wba/villa 2 teams with large personnel changes - fulham/qpr Thats 9/12 teams with fairly large changes / uncertainty involved The only team I think is due to be relegated is wigan, this will be their year if they dont buy any new players. they have lost some key players already and are showing no signs of recovery. Stoke are my next in line, which might seem a little controversial to some but they got incredible lucky last season off of referee decisions. Have a look at www.debatabledecisions.com and see the tables, they got the most 'luck' last season and would have been relegated based on this (i know that its just fantasy really and it is hard to call, but luck doesnt last forever). I would have said QPR to go down but with their investment all they need to do is to make a team stick and they will be sorted. if these players cant work together they could be in the runnings for it though. Villa should recover with the new manager (mcleish was awful) so I think they will be relatively safe. The only others that I can think of are Swansea and Norwich as both have lost the managers that brought them here in the first place. OK, so my writing has gone a little wacky, sorry, but these are my thoughts any and I think that 8th onwards will be the most competitive it has been in years, with a narrow points bracket and not much separating anyone.

Have you forgotten Spurs or are you saying they'll be finishing 8th or below?

[Guest]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Meant to be in the 5th - 8th section. If they keep Ade and AVB doesn't cock up then in the section above.

[Pay Day]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 In regards to Fulham, at the moment they do have holes in their squad. Some of the players they have let go will probably raise eye-brows, and I think much has to do with how Jol is quite a marmite character; in previous managerial appointments (notably Spurs) he was said to be extremely divisive and created a negative atmosphere within the squad. Potentially Zamora and Johnson's departure, the captains swift exit and last seasons best player on the verge of a move is testament to his divisive managerial methods? I think they'll be fine though. Losing Murphy doesn't seem that much of a blow when considering Jol's support for fast, fluent attacks started from midfield. Murphy far too often got caught on the wrong side of the play and was clumsy in possession and tackle. Signing proven internationals such as Rodallega and Petric certainly doesn't look like a team who will struggle this year, and if the ever classy Hangeland stays fit and at the club they should be between 8-12 again. Relegation wise their certainly doesn't seem too much value, 6 teams are hovering around 2 / 1! I think Saints will fall but I say that with no justification having not really watched them that much last season. When I did, I thought their defence was awful in every game, even when they didn't concede, so I will follow closely who they bring in in that area. Also, their central midfield seems very inexperienced and youthful, which is a recipe for disaster in the intense premier league. We know they create chances and had a good Championship striker score at will, but how many chances are they going to create against the majority of the league? Hopefully I'll jump on some value after the first few weeks of the season. Such as Everton to finish in the top 10 when they are usually languishing in the bottom 3 after 6! I remember getting United at 7/2 to win the title after they drew at home to WBA 2-2 a couple of seasons back...Chelsea had won their first five games and everyone thought they would romp it! Turns out it was United who did and that draw was the only loss of points they had at home all season!!

[The Saint]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 I hope you're wrong.... Thing with Saints is that we play the game and that mentality won't change. It could happen that we will look good against the better footballing sides and struggle against teams that press in the middle of the park... Given our first 10 games, beating Wigan at home in game 2 already looks essential....

[froment]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Distance of grounds, in case someone is interested: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AiBu4BB5cCgZdE81ZGNrRVFjRFNpZ1MwUldoLVVIUWc&output=html

[curby235]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Hot on the heels of the story of Man Uniteds interest in RVP the mirror are running a story that a fee for Lucas Moura has been agreed. At £26 million it seems a big gamble for one so young but then again Cristiano Ronaldo looked overpriced in his first couple of seasons at Man United. Watching video footage of him he looks like he likes to attack from wide areas and I wonder if maybe Nani could be sold while his value is high after a decent Euro championship.

[Jase82]

Personally I'd wait to see what happens with these deals rather than buying into what the tabloids have to say.

[curby235]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Normally I pay no heed to transfer gossip but this is 2 major transfer stories the mirror have printed about Man united in as many days and both have been confirmed by Fergie very quickly. It suggests that the mirror might have fairly reliable info at United.

[HastGill1]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 I would be staggered if United had such a low amount as 12m to spend, if they are in negotiations for Moura as Ferguson has confirmed I expect they will have to part with 20-25m.

[CiderHead]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Anyway, I'm most likely going to regret this but I'm going to add my own opinion to the Arsenal debate. I think Podolski could prove to be a good piece of business for them. I would expect him to play on the left side of the front three much like he does for Germany. He is very capable there and contributes plenty of goals which is something Arsenal have lacked across the whole team. With Van Persie most likely going to leave others are going to have to step up to the mark and contribute some serious goals. It will be interesting to see how Giroud copes in the premier league and as I have seen next to nothing of him I will reserve judegement until I see him play some games. Wilshers coming back this season is a massive boost. Hopefully he comes back and plays to the same levels and higher as he was before his injury. He is the closest thing in England to a foreign player in the way he plays. The rest of the midfield I'm not convinced by, Arteta and Ramsey will need to step up there levels of performance this season. IMO they need to buy a centre midfielder capable of scoring goals from midfield as this is something they are lacking at the moment. I'm not a massive fan of Song either but he can still do a decent job for them with more pressing areas to be strengthened. Defensively last season Arsenal were shocking, conceding 32 goals away from home last season. If they can keep Vermalen fit then this should strengthen there defence. Koscielny always seems capable of making a mistake and Mertascker was awful last season looking far to slow and vulnerable to a mistake. Gibbs I don't see as good enough to play for a top side. Santos was far too weak defensively and they need to bring in a new left back and centre half. Sczesney looked impressive last season though and should improve again with the more games he plays and experience he gains. Arsenal still need to bring in some top players but I doubt Wenger will spend the money to do this as he is far to stubborn to abandon his philosphy of playing youngsters and buying young players. I think they can finish anywere between 3rd and 5th depending on the transfers they make aswell as Chelsea and Spurs. The two Manchester clubs are still miles ahead of anyone else but I think the gap may be closed slightly this season.

[ThePerfectOne]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Is there a bookmaker that takes bets on the order of the top four?

[danoxford]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Oddschecker shows bookies that offer tricast betting, but not the first four. http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/tricast

[ThePerfectOne]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Thanks, danoxford. Where is the top goalscorer discussion by the way? :cigar Also does anyone know what happens if, let's just say, you place a top goalscorer bet on player X, who is at club Y and he goes to club Z? I'm thinking of putting few quids on Victor Moses @ 100/1, perhaps on a handicap, which could be of some value if he goes to Chelsea. :D

[lpoulter]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Hi does anyone know when the racing post preview is out?

[danj2202]

you missed it.....was wednesday Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[lpoulter]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

you missed it.....was wednesday Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

doh, anyone know of their tips for title and top scorer or a link to them or better a pdf copy! cheers.

[The Saint]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

doh' date=' anyone know of their tips for title and top scorer or a link to them or better a pdf copy! cheers.[/quote'] You can buy it for £3 from the Racing Post site. Am open to offers!!

[lpoulter]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

You can buy it for £3 from the Racing Post site. Am open to offers!!

Cheers mate have brought it online.

[cpo]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 I have been trying to figure out for weeks who to put in my ante-post bet. I am not a fan of Man Utd at all but I am starting to feel they could do it this year. Last year Man City seemed to be the dominant force all season, yet they only managed to sneak it in the last few minutes of the very last game. The Man Utd squad for me last year was very poor but they still took it right to the very end. The signing of Kagawa is massive for me as he will provide some much needed creativity and plenty of goals from midfield. If Valencia can stay fully fit all season then he is one of the most productive wingers in the league and Cleverley is back for them who should provide them with some much needed energy in midfield. I actually thought Fletcher was a big miss for Man Utd last season. Defensively Man Utd are solid and I fancy Fergie to make another big signing. They have missed out on Lucas Moura but that clearly shows they have the money available. If Van Persie goes to them, then I will be lumping on. Rooney will score plenty of goals next year and I fancy his partnership with Welbeck to flourish. I think they are without doubt the most solid bet to win the league. In regards to the opposition Man City are clearly the big dangers having won the league last year. They haven't made any big signings yet but they probably didn't have to. They have the most talented squad but who's to say they won't have any problems internally next year. There are several big ego's in the team and I would be wary of another Tevez saga next year. They have both Balotelli and Tevez who in my mind are ticking time bombs. That being said the spine of their team in Hart, Kompany, Toure and Aqguero is surely one of the best in the World. It is hard to see them not winning the league but I just have sneaky feeling for Man Utd to bounce back. As for the others, I fancy Chelsea and Arsenal to get closer to the top 2 this year but I feel their inconsistency will hinder their chances of winning the league. The top 4 for me will be the 4 teams I have mentioned. The Chelsea squad looks impressive but Hazard comes from a much weaker French league so there are no guarantees he will set the league alight. The same can be said for Giroud for Arsenal. The signing of Cazorla however is one of the best signings this year and Van Persie still hasn't gone anywhere. I fancy Arsenal to maybe pip Chelsea into 3rd place but much will depend on how their new players start the season. The same can be said for Torres. If he can get back to his best then Chelsea will have a chance but I just can't see it. He showed glimpses last season but wasn't consistent enough. He was woeful in the Champions League final! Man Utd to win the Premier League @ 11/4 Ladbrokes Wayne Rooney top scorer @ 9/1 BetVictor Man Utd/Rooney double @ 16/1 BetVictor

[wisey10]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 To be relegated: Sunderland @ 13.00 BetVictor (1 point) This looks a very tough league in the prem this season and I think there could be a bit of value in one of the mid table sides being relegated. All 3 teams who have come up look fairly strong and as we saw last season, the newly promoted sides are no longer a shoo-in to go down. It is likely to be tight at the bottom this season and anyone in the lower half could be vulnerable. Wigan, Norwich, And Swansea could all struggle but there isn't any value on them. Sunderland are an established prem team but they haven't really pulled up any trees at all. O'Neil seemed to work some magic when he first arrived last season but they did go on a very poor run towards the end of the season. That form has continued into pre season where they have put in a number of poor performances by all accounts. They are really lacking in the striker department and O'Neil has to bring in a couple of quality strikers if they are to stay out of that relegation mix. They have lost Bendtner from last season which might hurt them more than they realise. They are favourites for Stephen fletcher who would be a decent addition but I don't particularly rate him higher than Bendtner. With the ageing wes brown and O'shea at the back, a couple of injuries to key players could really see them looking short. Particularly up front. Sunderland don't have a bad squad but I don't rate it much higher than many of the teams below them. In what should be a very tight pack, I think there's every chance the Mackems could face a scrap and at 12/1 they offer a bit of value in my eyes. To be Relegated: Fulham @ 11.00 Coral (1 point) Im not Jol's biggest fan and I think Fulham could be in for a tough year. They have lost a number of key players in the last 12 months in Murphy, Zamora and Andy Johnson. Progbeynak who did well for them last season has also left for Reading and this is starting to look like a very different side. They do have some good players in Dembele, Ruiz and Dempsey but the influence of the departed players should not be underestimated. Talk of Dempsey to Liverpool continues to rumble on and he would be a massive loss. Fulham have also lost out to Lukaku on loan who has gone to West Brom so they are definitely in need of another quality striker. Fulham did really well last season but I would like to see how Jol would cope with a scrap at the bottom, especially without some of the old stalwarts. Would the likes of Dembele and Ruiz have the heart for that sort of scrap? Possibly so but a 10/1 I'm happy to take a little punt to find out. I also think Villa and Stoke could struggle from the teams outside the main pack but at 7/1 they aren't as appealing. It really could be a tough year for the teams in the bottom half this season. There doesn't seem to be any whipping boys which should make for a really interesting season.

[Mindfulness]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 A couple of bold selections there Wisey, a Martin O'Neil side to be relegated? they definately need some fresh faces and some proper goalscorers. I think one of their biggest problems is their location, players such as Bent, Gyan and Bendtner often go there to get 1st team football and refresh their career's but there's no way they want to stay in that part of the country for any length of time which is a problem for the Mackems. O'Neil is a titan of football management so ultimately I expect them to stay up but could well be in for a crap season. You say there's no whipping boys but I think West Brom, Swansea, and Reading all look vunerable this year.

[wisey10]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

A couple of bold selections there Wisey, a Martin O'Neil side to be relegated? they definately need some fresh faces and some proper goalscorers. I think one of their biggest problems is their location, players such as Bent, Gyan and Bendtner often go there to get 1st team football and refresh their career's but there's no way they want to stay in that part of the country for any length of time which is a problem for the Mackems. O'Neil is a titan of football management so ultimately I expect them to stay up but could well be in for a crap season. You say there's no whipping boys but I think West Brom, Swansea, and Reading all look vunerable this year.

Have a good look at Sunderland's squad. There's only a couple of players there who look like top half players to me. O'Neil turned things round magically when he arrived but they won just 1 game in their last 10 with 0 wins from their last 9 games. Their only out and out strikers are Frazier Campbell who has had injury problems, Ji who is still inexperienced in the prem and Connor wick ham who seems out of favour. If they just add Stephen Fletcher to that pool, it doesn't look too strong to me. Sessegnon is a good player but the team as a whole is very average in my opinion. I understand what you are saying about O'Neil but he hasn't exactly done much as a manager in the last few years. If they start this season as they finished the last one with just 1 in 10 wins then they will be in deep trouble. Of course they aren't obviously going to struggle but I think there is a reasonable chance they could do. There is still time to make some good signings but Carlos Cuellar is the only addition to date which doesn't look good. Even if they add Fletcher, I think they will still need another couple on top and without them they could struggle. It's a long shot but I think 12's is a bit too big on them. I know where you are coming from though.