Arc de triomph

[richard-westwood]

Enable   99.35

Capri    99.33

  J gosdens enable is all but unbackable in this and many think is home and hosed but o brien is a master and wont go down without a fight ...ryan has chosenn winter but im not convinced a tough 12f is what that horse needs ..has a lot to prove ...but At 20/1 I think Capri is vastly overpriced ...ran a cracker in the st leger and its one if the better ones ive seen for a while proving what a tough and genuine horse this is ......and has been given just long enough to recover that fitness is also an advantage he has......great pedigree out of Galileo just ticks too many boxes to ignore so if I'm going to have a bet I'll try for an upset here by the maestro 

Capri  10pts e.w 20/1 corals 

[DanV89]

Agree with you on Capri Richard and I was all over him in the Leger. Main negative I think though could be the draw, don’t know if you’ve seen it? Capri drawn 15. Full draw as follows;

Zarak 18
Doha Dream 12
One Foot In Heaven 11
Ulysses 1
Cloth Of Stars 3
Silverware 16
Idaho 7
Dschingis Secret 10
Satono Diamond 13
Satono Noblesse 5
Iquitos 6
Order Of St George 9
Seventh Heaven 17
Brametot 4
Capri 15
Plumatic 14
Enable 2
Winter 8

[richard-westwood]

46 minutes ago, DanV89 said:

Agree with you on Capri Richard and I was all over him in the Leger. Main negative I think though could be the draw, don’t know if you’ve seen it? Capri drawn 15. Full draw as follows;

Zarak 18
Doha Dream 12
One Foot In Heaven 11
Ulysses 1
Cloth Of Stars 3
Silverware 16
Idaho 7
Dschingis Secret 10
Satono Diamond 13
Satono Noblesse 5
Iquitos 6
Order Of St George 9
Seventh Heaven 17
Brametot 4
Capri 15
Plumatic 14
Enable 2
Winter 8

Not bothered lol...11 ..12..16 filled  first 3 last year ...chantilly isnt as biased as longchamp ....let the battle commence !! ...14 and 11 the year before ..if anything there seems a high draw bias 

Actually ..2015 was longchamp so ignore that but last years was all high

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by richard-westwood

[arsenalfh]

Don't want to take on Enable but she makes the race for some good value each-way bets.

Had a quick look and came up with a shortlist of Satono Diamond, Cloth Of Stars, Idaho and Iquitos as horses that look interesting to place.

[Trotter]

Agree that Enable is making some attractive EW prices

I've made a short list .........

16/1 Dschingi's Secret - German raider who won the Foy arc trial. Approves to be a fast improving horse and showed a good turn of foot in soft ground in the Foy. A lot of horses act on soft ground but many of them would grind on at one pace so the ability to quicken in the finish could be invaluable

33/1 Zarak - won a group one at St Cloud last time on first go at 12F, a distance which always looked likely to suit on pedigree but connections were dubious. Fabulous pedigree ....... by Dubawi out of the magnificent Zarkanda. Hasn't run since July but goes well fresh. Soumillon on board

28/1 Cloth of Stars - beat Zarak in the Ganay and 2nd to Dschingi's Secret in the Foy so there's not much between these 3 on form. Zarak is trained by the Master, A Fabre, and has had the traditional Arc prep for a French horse with 3 months off mid-season. Barzalaona gets the ride.

I reckon any of those 3 should give you a run for your money

If Enable does win you just have to suck it up and comfort yourself that you've seen a great filly !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

20/1 Capri - Top class stayer but I 

 

[robertob]

3.05: Chantilly - 2017 Arc De Triomphe

"You are prone to bad luck at Chantilly; often the best horse gets beaten there" - John Gosden

Correct. John Gosden, trainer of wonder filly Enable is rightly concerned if it comes to external influences in today's Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe.

The dual Oaks and King George champ is the red hot betting favourite for quite some time. Rightly so. There is little more she needs to do to prove her class. She IS all class.

However a long season, a big field of top class contenders, most of them the opposite sex, tough ground and a course that can throw up strange results - there is a lot to overcome today....

.... and a lot to like about Enable! 

On the positive side of things, Enable could have not get a better draw allotted in the lottery that can kill chances of any horse before the race is even run. She can start from stall 2 - it gives her flamboyant star jockey Frankie Dettori every chance to make a decision whereas other rivals have to take what's left over.

Enable is an uncomplicated filly, she has no problem to race prominently. I'm sure Dettori will settle her close enough to the pace with every chance to get the clearest of runs. The track will be more of an issue for anyone behind her: no excuses.

So, if she is in the form she presented herself all year she'll win. Plain and simple. Fillies and three year old fillies in particular have a superb record in the Arc.

But what if a season that started in a Conditions Stake at Newbury back in April has taken a toll? You couldn't begrudge Enable to lose some percentage of her superb form that saw the three year old land spectacular victories throughout the summer.

Well - Autumn, soft ground and Chantilly can do strange things to horses. So at prices I have to take on Enable. As much as I would love the story of her winning the race, as much I feel ENABLEd to say: this is one too many for her this year.

....

I like three individuals at much bigger odds: the German raider Dschingis Secret, the recent Leger hero Capri and the French Cloth Of Stars .

Dschingis Secret: The German horse has no issues on the soft ground and usually does his best at the back end of his races. The way he finds another gear in the closing stages, as seen in the Prix Foy and Großer Preis von Berlin, is a trait not too many horses posses.

The way he races does not look sexy. He can get sweaty, be a bit keen but also can appear to be off the bridle earlier than a high class individual should be. But that doesn't matter. The apparent ease - once hitting top gear - he puts away classy contenders suggest that this lad is hitting top form when it matters most.

The draw isn't ideal, ten is as wide as you want to be and he will need a bit of luck. But hey, this is horse racing. You'll always need a bit of " luck" on the big day. 16's is a serious price for a serious horse.

Capri: The drop in trip won't be an issue. He's an Irish Derby winner with form over shorter too. He travells strongly through his races and simply has an exceptional attitude to keep on going, as seen at Doncaster a fortnight ago. Soft ground doesn't bother him, in fact the true stamina test expected will rather suit him today.

He's here's soon enough with little time to recover plus faces the difficult task to break from stall 15. However that is reflected in the price, and I feel taken into account overly negative. Yes, he is not the likeliest winner of the race, but surely a dual Classic winner has a slightly better than 5% chance with conditions likely to suit him?!

Cloth Of Stars: It's been eight years since Sea The Stars became a legend in this very race. His son Cloth Of Stars is one who has the tools to emulate his almighty daddy. He's got a good draw, a fair prep run under the belt off a four months long break when runner-up in the Foy behind Dschingis Secret and was unbeaten in 2017 before that.

Stamina is a question mark. He is yet to win over 1m 4f. On the plus side he loves the ground and deserves another crack at this distance after only two tries and with some improvement still possible.

Some words on the rest of field: Don't count out Ulysses, either. He will love the track, he's been a revelation this season and acts on softish ground. That says ground and trip in combination should not play to his strengths, I feel.

There is loads of money coming for Order Of St. George. He's a sexy contender, I admit. He looked SO good in the Irish Ledger. Ground and trip is fine. A stayer with a turn of foot, Arc 3rd twelve months ago. Yeah, he's a serious chance, Ballydoyle's best, no doubt.

I say that because it's only the 1st October and Winter is not coming - not today. The superstar filly has done it all this season, but this is a step too far. Sure, as a daughter of Galileo all is seemingly possible - but a long year, tough ground, a trip as far as she's never gone before - too much.

My point is....

..... this is a wide open Arc! Much more open than the betting suggests. We have a star filly in Enable who is likely to take plenty of beating if all goes right for her. But this is the Arc, it's autumn, it's Chantilly, it's tough ground, it's a high class field.... there is plenty of room for things to pan out in a completely different way. Let's hope it goes my way.

Selections:
10pts win - Dschingis Secret @ 16/1 Bet365
10pts win - Capri @ 20/1 Bet365
5pts win - Cloth To Stars @ 28/1 Bet365

[corky]

skybet going ew 5 places, others may offer this

 

[arsenalfh]

3.05 Chantilly - Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe

Iquitos looks an interesting one. Has been running well in Germany in small fields but looks the type suited to a strong gallop and good test over 12f so I can see him improving here. The German's have had some decent staying types over the years like Danedream, Sea The Moon and Protectionist so he may be coming from an underrated form line. Looks good value to place at least with Bet365 going 150/1 with 4 places.

Iquitos each-way @ 150/1 Bet365 (4 places)

[corky]

its good when the best horse wins, no hard luck stories, well done frankie, took control and won as she liked

mr gosden

[robertob]

What can you say.... I watched in awe, the mouth wide open when Frankie pressed the "Turbo button" and Enable made minced beef of top class opposition. Frankie gave her a no-nonsense ride. He had all the options, yes, but you need to stay cool enough to make the "right" decisions when the whole world is on your shoulders. John Gosden, how does he get these horses bang there again and again? Long season.... who cares. Enable certainly didn't. 

We use the word "superstar" way too loosely these days, but this filly is it in its true meaning. Hope she stays in training. Flat racing needs these horses we can connect on an emotional basis.