Lars Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Saturday's big race at Haydock, and in a way, it's a slight shame that this race wasn't held the week after on the same day as the PL Raceday! To me, Overdose is the best sprinter in Europe, and probably 2nd or 3rd in the world. (Black Caviar/Rocket Man). Although unproven against anything top-class, he's been beating decent fields in Europe, over the minimum distances as easy as you like. And of course, he was so unlucky in the Abbaye. Only real concern would be his behaviour at the stalls, but our handlers are surely better prepared than the Germans when he acted up there, and of course should have been withdrawn. I'm so so tempted to pile on at the 5/2 currently on offer, as I think he'll end up shorter especially against this sort of field, although his price may get bigger as can quite imagine a few people will want to take him on. I can't see him being beaten... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmac Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes I was thinking about thjis earlier mate. Clearly impressive in what he has done. But what exactly has he done?! I know his time was good in the voided race in France, but has he got what it takes to win this, against top class opposition...? I am really excited to see him, as he has been mentionned as a class act for years.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes Got to be a big doubt though as to wether he's the same horse as he was before the injury I hope so...........he's one of those horses that people have an emotional attachment to ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes Well I've took the plunge and backed him. Lot bigger than my average bet but I'm not going to be in the poorhouse if he gets beat. Will be fantastic to see how he does, still think he'll be very close to his standard a couple of seasons ago, his last run was pretty impressive imo and should come on for that as well. Think the top class sprinting division has pretty poor strength in-depth, especially compared to the amount of top class milers we have. We will see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard-westwood Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes this is how ive rated up the race : markab 167 good , 170 good/firm kingsgate native 163 good/firm prohibit 163 good sole power 159 good overdose ???(poor run in 35,000?) overdose is a dark horse .....hes been running well all over europe but hasnt really come up against anyone of note so its difficult to weigh up what the horse is but 5/2 on an unproven horse against this calibre of horses(but could be anything )...... seems poor in relation to the 10/1 available on markab who is a proven top class sprinter and probably one of the fastest in europe on his day (although penalised for grp1 ) ......comeback run wasnt too special but that was probably just to get the horse warmed up for this(and was flying at 5 pole ) and many in that race will improve drastically .kingsgate native looks a very good sprinter and warrants respect but very short 5/1 ? im going to back 5pts each markab 10/1 william hill and prohibit 20/1 betfred (who ran a fast race at longchamp this week) in what looks an open race Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izanai Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes Im really looking forward to seeing Overdose I hope he wins it although Im not entirely sure how good his form is as Im not sure what he has beaten across Europe, but hope he is the real deal I can't bet in the race as just don't know how good Overdose is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn up slip Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes I think New Planet of John Quinn's could be the answer to this one personally. Won 1st time out last season as a 2yr old and my friends horse was favourite for it, Quinn told my friend he thinks a lot of the horse. It also won it's next race before going down by a length or two iirc to none other than Zebedee at Doncaster but if im not mistaken the race was over 6f and this horse is without question a 5f horse. Obviously a big ask first time out this season but if Fallon retains the ride it will be extremely significant imo. 16/1 is a lovely price. The only caveat to add is that the horse is also entered at York on Saturday. Edit: He's been declared for this race on Saturday but Martin Lane has been given the job of riding him. Strange really if you ask me, is Lane not a 3lb claimer? Never been able to understand the logic of putting an appy up on a horse in a race they cant claim their allowance. I'll still be backing the horse to small stakes as he is very talented and I'll also be paying close attention to where Mr K Fallon does actually end up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussP Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes I hope to be there on Saturday. Should be a cracker of a race, will be good to see if this Overdose is the real deal or not. Watching them parade in the paddock is always a treat in this top class races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tull Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes Well I've took the plunge and backed him. Lot bigger than my average bet but I'm not going to be in the poorhouse if he gets beat. Will be fantastic to see how he does, still think he'll be very close to his standard a couple of seasons ago, his last run was pretty impressive imo and should come on for that as well. Think the top class sprinting division has pretty poor strength in-depth, especially compared to the amount of top class milers we have. We will see! Good luck with the plunge Lars. I'm tempted to back him as everything says max bet. If the horse that won the race that never was (L'Abbay) turns up then he should bolt up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn up slip Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes The price is obseen for the fav imo. Everyone always talks about value and to me, 2/1 is as far from value as it's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes Just woke up to see Overdose's prices. :spank:spank:spank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmac Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes Connections now stating that winning is not important here, and it is a stepping stone for the Royal meet. I always thought he was too short, still do at the prices. Sole Power could be set for a big run here if the race is ran at a furious pace... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowgli77 Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes I'd love to see good old Borderlescott win this race, not had a penny on the race yet. Just having a look and trying to talk myself out of Kingsgate Native, it's let me down several times before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowgli77 Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes I think New Planet of John Quinn's could be the answer to this one personally. Won 1st time out last season as a 2yr old and my friends horse was favourite for it, Quinn told my friend he thinks a lot of the horse. It also won it's next race before going down by a length or two iirc to none other than Zebedee at Doncaster but if im not mistaken the race was over 6f and this horse is without question a 5f horse. Obviously a big ask first time out this season but if Fallon retains the ride it will be extremely significant imo. 16/1 is a lovely price. The only caveat to add is that the horse is also entered at York on Saturday. Edit: He's been declared for this race on Saturday but Martin Lane has been given the job of riding him. Strange really if you ask me, is Lane not a 3lb claimer? Never been able to understand the logic of putting an appy up on a horse in a race they cant claim their allowance. I'll still be backing the horse to small stakes as he is very talented and I'll also be paying close attention to where Mr K Fallon does actually end up. Currently 25-1, I took a bit of 28's about 15 mins ago, just a small each way bet, only run 3 times and although it lacks experience a few 3 year olds have won this over the last 10 years and it could be anything. Straight to Listed class on its 2nd run rather than going through the handicaps. Also had a small bet on Kingsgate Native each way at 5-1, feel the course/distance win is hard to ignore and if 2-3 of these fly off too fast it will pick them off late. Not a big fan of sprints but feel it's worth taking on Overdose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes Connections now stating that winning is not important here' date=' and it is a stepping stone for the Royal meet. I always thought he was too short, still do at the prices. Sole Power could be set for a big run here if the race is ran at a furious pace...[/quote'] Nice one:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tull Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes yeah good call on Sole Power although Overdose didnt look comfortable. Hopefully he will be wiser for the run and Ascot is key Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmac Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes I would never back Overdose after seeing that. Surely things were set fair for him to win here if he was good enough? It will only be harder for him at Ascot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fintron Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes Well done those on Sole Power, great price in the morning. Phil, I ended up backing Borderlescott. I've followed this horse off a cliff for four years and wondered if he had gone on one year too many but I was delighted with his performance today, came with a strong burst on the far side only to narrowly miss out on place money. There is life in the old boy yet, and maybe a drop into Group 2 or Group 3 company could see him return to the winner's enclosure next time. All in all delighted with the run. Still don't know what to make of Overdose - he had nice form figures but it was hard to weigh up what he had beaten. I guess the Jury is still out with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tull Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes Jockey said he would be suited to softer ground. No mention of ground concerns prior to the meeting though. If we get the BBQ summer as reported then the ground could be super fast come ascot. Wouldnt surprise me if we dont see him run in the UK again if the ground is key. I hope we do though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAGS is BENT Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes I would never back Overdose after seeing that. Surely things were set fair for him to win here if he was good enough? It will only be harder for him at Ascot. 100% agreed,the horse never went a yard,also blaming the ground is a poor excuse,the ground wasnt rattling fast[just on the fast side of good]. On that evidence some of our mundane sprint handicappers rated in 61 -75 bracket would have chances in sprint pattern races in Germany! :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmac Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes 100% agreed' date='the horse never went a yard,also blaming the ground is a poor excuse,the ground wasnt rattling fast[just on the fast side of good']. On that evidence some of our mundane sprint handicappers rated in 61 -75 bracket would have chances in sprint pattern races in Germany! :lol And I bet the trainers of some of our 61-75 rated sprinters are already looking at their races and entering horses.... Seriously, huge anticlimax to Overdose. Oh well..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussP Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes I was there today and have to say that Overdose looked tremendous in the paddock. Didn't back the horse myself but thought it would win after seeing how well it looked. Just didn't transfer it to the track. Disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmac Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes Exactly Russ, all things were set for him to show us what he was 'apparantly' made of today, and it didn't happen.... I doubt he will appear at Royal Ascot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowgli77 Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes Exactly Russ, all things were set for him to show us what he was 'apparantly' made of today, and it didn't happen.... I doubt he will appear at Royal Ascot... Ready made excuse for it not turning up at Ascot too now they mention the ground, hardly going to be soft in June is it? It's ok winning loads of races against poor opposition but a different matter against the best horses. The horse Worthaad the other week had won loads of races and did well to run Canford Cliffs fairly close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmac Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes The one thing I cannot get away from is his run in the voided race.... Saying that, it was 2 years ago now - and he seems to have gone backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes Personally, having backed him and followed his progress in Europe almost as long as I've been following racing (since 2009), today wasn't his true running. He obviously isn't quite the same horse as the void race in France, but I'm still sure he retains most of his ability. He ran a 57sec time this season, so I'm sure that there's still something there. As Russ said, he looked fantastic in the Paddock. My main worry for him was the ground, but I still believe he'd be good enough anyway to win. He never really looked comfortable and I think it was partly due to the ground, partly due to the fact it was a race full of trailblazers. I won't be backing him again unless he shows up somewhere where there is plenty of juice in the ground, all his best form is on that surface and his action screams "softer ground". If I was connections, I'd go back to Europe, pick up a few races over the summer against some poor opposition and then pray for rain in the Abbaye, where I'm sure if it turned up 'soft' as it often does at Longchamp. If he was well within himself he'd be able to pick up a place in that contest or better. No chance at Ascot though, especially with the summers we're having... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussP Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes For any Markab fans, don't be too put off by the run. Quite frankly, the horse was bloody fat! I'd be upset to have a horse in that condition out in the field, let alone on a racetrack. I'm not a paddock watcher but this stood out a mile, even my lad spotted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes That's interesting stuff about Markab Russ, thanks.:ok It is strange connections are using the ground as an excuse. Going for the void Abbeye being good-firm. There is little doubt Overdose was at that time a top class sprinter. Though I would not say beating Strike Up The Band by 3 1/2 lengths is at all outstanding. The time of the void race was said to prove how good Overdose is. However, there was apparrently a strong tail wind blowing at the time; and Marchand D'Or beat (only just) it in the re-run later on the card. Also beating Strike Up The Band by further (although it was that horse's second run of the day so hardly worth mentioning). Overdose also ran a brilliant time last time out, but I've heard all the times that day were unusually fast. It did not take a wonderful performance (some way behind Longchamp form) to win as he did. He's also a front-runner, usually bowling along out the front with inferior rivals in his wake. Today there were many front running rivals well up to giving a tustle for the lead. Always likely to be unsuited by the pace. Sole Power and Kingsgate Native coming through from rear. You could easily discard the race as far as Overdose's future goes. I would not write him off yet, not even on a firm surface. But the probability is he's not as good as a couple of years ago anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bathtime For Rupert Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes Kingsgate Native ran a great race in my opinion. Especially considering he was drawn on the stand's rail, and made his challenge at the other side of the field. Haven't watched it following any of the other horses, though, including Overdose, but it would take a very good horse to take on speedsters such as Rose Blossom at the head of affairs, and stay there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenyatta Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Re: Temple Stakes Overdose should be renamed OVERHYPE, the horse is very average, its won 15 out of 17 now. Its just been beaten in a Group 2 and has never Won a GROUP ONE, 10 of its wins have come in races with a winning prize of less than £10k, its won races worth £536 and £1075 ! The jockey states the ground was too fast ! fast horses go on fast ground. ;) If it goes to Royal Ascot it will get hammered. Only my opinion of course, but I'm right. :drums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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