Samba_SamPa Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Well I had a whopping 13/8 winner in bbotd today, so chew on that Billy and Ginge - you amateurs :loon :tongue2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowles10 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Well I had a whopping 13/8 winner in bbotd today, so chew on that Billy and Ginge - you amateurs :loon :tongue2 i'm in your camp SS, pity 1100 viewers choose to pick on this thread when the guys day in day out put blood sweat & tears into finding winners & get 30-40 views a day to thier threads just shows you, perhaps our viewers just want to read people's disagreements rather than the top quality analysis most of our punters put forward as for Ginge & BTP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? I didn't say 80% on a year, I said close to 100%. There is no way I will lose over the course of a year. Well, it's close to impossible. HOWEVER, if you pick 10 random bets from my yearly punting it may not show a profit. Why is that? That thread was level stakes. I do not bet to level stakes. That thread did not allow for stakes saved in running. Automatic saving in running increased my profits last year. That thread did not include the last few Saturday's of the year, which typically included a 40/1 winner (La Rayb) and 50/1 winner Tropical Strait. During the football season (Aug-Nov), I struggled to post on a Saturday you see. There was a loss on casts on the thread, but it didn't include the casts I did before the thread. I won over five figures on the Spring Mile from casts prior to the thread. Overall (personally) I made a small profit on casts, however not enough for me to continue this year - too much effort in placing the bets. It was my best year yet, and the thread doesn't even tell half the story, like I say it missed two massive price winners, and the massive amounts won on the Spring Mile. Also come the end of the season I had secured a profit on NON-Class2/3 handicaps. For example claimers are responsible for many of my biggest bets throughout the year. For example, one of my biggest wins was the Brighton Mile this year (Class 4). I won more on that race that any of of the races on the thread. Also the bet that resulted in my latest banning, Grit at 40/1, was another that didn't qualify for the thread due to the Class of the race. Same applies to Look Here at the same price. Also another one of my own horses won a conds stakes (again not on the thread) at 14/1 - come on work it out, you think I didn't have it off there? These are off the top of my head, there are countless others. Then there were bets on the thread at I altered stakes on, my E/W bet on Royal Power at 40/1 was one of my biggest singles of the year. So you understand it is possible for my year to be a lot better than my thread suggests. I chose to concetrate on Class 2/3 handicaps for a THREAD as I didn't have the time to do extensive write-ups on all the races I was playing on. Plus I thought it would also provide the highest S/R for anyone who was following at that time. If my ROI was actually 6% in the real world, I would not be doing this full time. :ok Aftertiming takes many forms Billy. Including wanting to be judged with all of the above added to the 6% profit in the other thread. Without (may I add) any losers being taken in to consideration. Did you put stakes to all the above advice? Tipping them (which is good in it's own way and deserves credit) on other thhreads does not allow you to pick and choose which parts you want to add to your 6% profit on another thread. As I said, am willing ta accept you made a profit at the time of these "tips"; may well be as much as say 13 or 14% (outstanding profit). To bring it up to around 10% over all profit (including the other thread). Please just accept that Billy? I am trying to be generous here. Just because you say you made such fantastic profit does not mean everyone has to believe you. Get over it. You may think I am jelous of you Billy, but everyone can see I have a habbit of defending professional gamblers on this site. When others critisise Mr. Potts, Nevison, Findlay, Mellish etc. I am usually one, if not the only one to defend them. Yet you have inferred criticism on two of them on this thread alone. Those green eyes seem to be moving from person to person.:lol Sorry, if your tipping service is not a subscription service, I took a look at your site and saw a subscription button, once again, sorry if I jumped to conclusions. I'll put my handbag away if you do the same Billy.:) Can we call it quits please. Let's just call it a misunderstanding and move on. (my hand is out to shake).:ok What do you say? Mark (Ginge) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? would be interested to hear what this is based on? Yield, profit, knowledge, please tell? again interested to know to see how i can personally improve the only person who seems to be running a consistent full bet thread is me in my "live" betting book which is every bet i have placed since April 16th. I could turn round & say, actually i had more on that etc or backed the other one instead, but whats the point of that. Again great debate albeit some of it slightly off topic think the ginge & BTP should meet up at the next PL meet!" Should have known giving three people complements would alienate the rest.:lol You are in the "potential to do so" category Bowles. I will expand on my reasons if you want me to, just remember; you asked. May take a day or two to get back to you. Harry Hill has asked myself and Billy on his show next week Bowles. There's only one way to find out, FIGHT!!!!:lol;) Ginge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmac Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Yawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fintron Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Come on guys, this is gonna prattle on for days, both of you have your own strong opinions and are bound to disagree over stuff, but some of the stuff flying around in here has become quite personal and out of order. Both of you are respected on here as good judges and have nothing to prove to anyone. BH and Paul added some top posts earlier up above on a similar vein and think you've both had your say now and should let it lie. I won't hold my breath and expect you to duet Sonny and Cher and at the next PL meet (and thats even assuming you can grab that microphone off Mr Gary Barlow himsef...Russ ;)) but maybe you can have your own mini dance off to settle it once and for all :lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Come on guys' date=' this is gonna prattle on for days, both of you have your own strong opinions and are bound to disagree over stuff, but some of the stuff flying around in here has become quite personal and out of order. Both of you are respected on here as good judges and have nothing to prove to anyone. BH and Paul added some top posts earlier up above on a similar vein and think you've both had your say now and should let it lie. I won't hold my breath and expect you to duet Sonny and Cher and at the next PL meet (and thats even assuming you can grab that microphone off Mr Gary Barlow himsef...Russ ;)) but maybe you can have your own mini dance off to settle it once and for all :lol[/quote'] That is fine wit me Fintron, as I say, my hand is there to shake. That next PL meet sounds like something to miss mate. Gary Barlow. Sonny and Cher:puke Sid, Jonny or Billy Bragg, may be.:lol "And naaow, the end is near, and so I face, the final curtain, haa haa haa....Today, I killed a cat........and may I say, I did it myyyyyyyyy way". Mark (Ginge) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmac Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Yawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedthewolf Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? It's all quiet on a Sunday evening' date=' so a light hearted question.....[/quote'] lighthearted [edit]English [edit]Adjective lighthearted (comparative more lighthearted, superlative most lighthearted) Joyful, glad, taking pleasure in being alive. Not depressed or sad. The lighthearted young lovers ran over the hills. Enjoyable lack of seriousness, not grave. His lighthearted banter was appreciated because it relieved the tension in tight situations. [edit]Translations [show ▼]joyful [show ▼]enjoyable lack of seriousness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Aftertiming takes many forms Billy. Including wanting to be judged with all of the above added to the 6% profit in the other thread. Without (may I add) any losers being taken in to consideration. Did you put stakes to all the above advice? Tipping them (which is good in it's own way and deserves credit) on other thhreads does not allow you to pick and choose which parts you want to add to your 6% profit on another thread. Again, of course there were losers as well. However, with regards the races (4 in total) that Choreography and Royal Power won I had an out of line big bet. I had 5 (bigger than normal) bets on my horses last year - thankfully one one of those bets lost (Choreography at Lingfield - for some reason he was backed 16/1 to 17/2 on seasonal debut at Salisbury but that wasn't my money, I was on here at the time mentioned a small E/W) This is why I used these as an example, there were other losers, and other winners but I got it big time with the above examples. Surely you realise this? That I had bigger bets when my own horses ran? Also the huge T/C on Day 1 paid for many losers, I'm sure you can imagine. It paid 1600/1 for crying out loud. Can we agree on at least one thing: A punter shows 10% ROI to level stakes, over 200 bets. However in reality 195 were to level stakes. 5 were 10x the "level stake". Now 4 of those 5 bets won. His ROI will be over 10%. Yes or No? As I said, am willing ta accept you made a profit at the time of these "tips"; may well be as much as say 13 or 14% (outstanding profit). To bring it up to around 10% over all profit (including the other thread). Please just accept that Billy? I am trying to be generous here. Just because you say you made such fantastic profit does not mean everyone has to believe you. Get over it. On the original thread I never continually mentioned other bets etc, I brought it up when you were discussing my personal ROI in this thread. I mentioned that my actual ROI was higher than the "Specialist" thread suggest. That was NOT for you to "accept". If you told me xyz I would believe you - I would see no reason not to. People may disbelieve many things I say, I really don't care. I've had it all my life, a lot people do not believe I (or anyone) can make it pay at gambling, not people I know, but people you meet, they ask you what you do and you see it in their faces when you tell them. I do not dwell on this as they are either losing punters or ignorant about gambling. However it's sad that anyone would call (or think) that any fellow PL member is a liar. You may think I am jelous of you Billy, but everyone can see I have a habbit of defending professional gamblers on this site. When others critisise Mr. Potts, Nevison, Findlay, Mellish etc. I am usually one, if not the only one to defend them. Yet you have inferred criticism on two of them on this thread alone. Those green eyes seem to be moving from person to person.:lol I never criticised, I said that AP has LONG had tipping influences, that's a fact. Besides all I asked was "are pros like AP a dying breed?" I said SM is maybe a pundit first, pro second - in fact I asked that, didn't state it. I was actally asking if you agree with me on that subject. How is that criticism? Now can we call it quits please. Let's just call it a misunderstanding and move on. (my hand is out to shake).:ok What do you say? Mark (Ginge) If you pursued the spotlight thing with RP, and I was on here slagging your spotlights off. How you would react? Wouldn't happen of course as I've too much class to do something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Sorry, if your tipping service is not a subscription service, I took a look at your site and saw a subscription button, once again, sorry if I jumped to conclusions. :unsure I haven't got a site. Just a blog. There is no subscription button on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Yawn I would take a nap if I were you Alex. Bet I know the answer to that. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmac Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Seriously guys, whats going on here? Whats with all the point scoring....? It feels like I am dealing with a bunch of Year 8 boys in this thread :) Can we not all just agree to disagree and move on....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? I was having a good discussion until 5.55pm last night. I think most would have reacted as I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? :unsure I haven't got a site. Just a blog. There is no subscription button on there. At the bottom of the page. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmac Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? :wall:wall:wall It probably means for blog updates.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Seriously guys, whats going on here? Whats with all the point scoring....? It feels like I am dealing with a bunch of Year 8 boys in this thread :) Can we not all just agree to disagree and move on....? Am trying Alex, my hand is there. Billy, I am sorry if you have misunderstood me, it seems BH misunderstood too, so may be I did not put it well enough. So, shake hands? You can even have your fingers crossed behind your back if you like. Oh, and shall we do that duet? If you go as John Lennon, I'll go as myself. Tee, hee hee. Joke.:lol Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Yeah think so, it's nothing to do with the service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? :wall:wall:wall It probably means for blog updates.... Ooops.:rollin Did not look that closely, sorry. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fintron Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? yes, its blog updates, you can subscribe so that you are alerted whenever the blogger puts up a new post. Unrelated to any tipping service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowles10 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Trying to get back to the topic, 4 years old but still sums up most of what we are discussing on here Become a successful gambler By Andy Thompson July 2005 Betting with your heart instead of your head is a surefire route to punting purgatory. But, as pro gambler Andy Thompson explains, just a few small changes in your approach can conquer your demons and turn losses into winnings. So what is it that really makes the difference between a successful punter and a losing one? A network of well developed informants and contacts? Hours of research and statistical analysis? The ability to spot value when others can't? While all of these are often able to give the very best gamblers an all-important edge, the real secret to long term profitability may well lie a lot closer to home. Because, according to some of the world's leading professionals, the reason most punters fail to turn a profit each year is almost entirely down to the guy staring back at them in the mirror. It's your own approach to gambling that ultimately will determine whether you're successful or not. Whatever the betting medium, most gamblers are more than able to apply a high degree of skill and knowledge to the basic principle of making the right selections. Even the mug punter in the darkest recesses of your local betting shop knows what it takes to find a winner at least some of the time. But in truth, backing winners is only half the battle. The problem for most punters is finding the mental strength and discipline to ensure that they remain in long term profit - in other words, they fail to find the resources from within themselves to make sure the winners they pick out add up to more than the losses they incur. Self destructive behaviour patterns such as chasing losses, placing 'interest' bets, which is effectively placing a bet while watching a live event to add a little bit more entertainment, and increasing stakes after a winner are the sort of habits guaranteed to keep us working for a living, and our bookie friends sipping cocktails in the Bahamas. If you think there's a magic formula that allows professional gamblers to win money all the time while the rest of us wallow in a pit of losses, you're wrong. That's why making changes to your attitude and mental approach can make all the difference. Finding that edge 'Most professional punters have an edge of some sort through which they hope to keep themselves ahead of the game,' said semi-professional gambler and The Observer's racing correspondent, Eddie Freemantle, 'but in my experience the gap in knowledge between a pro and a recreational punter is surprisingly small. 'The main difference between us is really the professional has learned to cope better with the psychological demons that afflict gamblers, and which all too often force them to throw their hard earned profits away.' For most people, the most ferocious of those 'demons' will always be the age-old weakness of chasing losses. It's a familiar story. A string of consecutive losers leads to a big hole in your betting bank. Suddenly you find yourself placing bets you would never have even considered at the start of the day, just to try and get your money back. Usually, the results are predictably disastrous. No matter how successful you are, there simply can't be any punter to whom it hasn't happened at some time. What makes punters want to blast their way out of trouble? Psychological expert Steve Code has a theory. 'From our very early years,' he said, 'men in particular are taught that to succeed in life we have to be good at what we do. In many ways our achievements at work define who we are as people. If we are successful, we feel fulfilled, rewarded and contented. 'For most gamblers, it's a similar mindset. Most of our friends and family know that we enjoy betting - no doubt ask us for a tip on occasion - and just as in our working lives, we want to be perceived as successful at it. So when we have a bad day gambling, it's that instinct that kicks in. 'After a disastrous week in the office, most people wouldn't just go home; they would stay at their desks until they had put things right. It's the same for punters. No one wants to walk out of the betting shop or turn off their computer a loser. So we chase our losses in an attempt to put things right - not just for our bank balances, but also for our own self-esteem.' Turning off the tilt So if we know that chasing losses will usually lead to disaster, how do we stop ourselves from going 'on tilt' as it's known? 'It's important for anyone hoping to make money from betting to be able to see the whole picture rather than just one individual day's betting,' said Tony Bloom, professional gambler and chief executive of football betting specialists Premierbet. 'The truth is there is never a last race, and a run of losing bets should only ever be seen as a temporary blip in a long-term sequence of results. Like all punters, I have soul-destroying days at times, but I'm always able to see those short-term losses as just a tiny part of my overall losses they incur in the short-term don't have any real effect on their financial stability. That way, when the bad runs occur, you know those setbacks are only going to make a small, temporary dent in your betting bank rather than clear your bank account. In those circumstances it's always easier to walk away from a bad day in action.' While avoiding chasing losses is crucial to success, it's equally important to remember to stay disciplined after a winning bet. The temptation to increase stakes, or to make bets you wouldn't have otherwise after you've backed a winner, is another destructive habit to which many punters fall victim. It's a failing not lost on Paddy Power Jnr of Irish bookies Paddy Power. 'The betting shop punter who screams home a winner, then immediately heads straight for the betting slip dispenser the moment his horse crosses the winning line is just the sort of customer any bookmaker wants in his betting shop,' he said. 'It's the guy who backs a winner and then walks out the door that I worry about.' Even on the betting exchanges there's evidence of poor discipline. How many of the people laying horses who have races sewn up at 1.01 are actually just punters wishing to clear their funds in time for the next race without having to wait for their bets to be settled? Plenty of people will simply rush into the next bet because things are going well rather than quit while ahead. Keeping a level head Bloom believes that staking the same amounts of money whether you're winning or losing is one of the key mindsets for any successful gambler. Look at each bet individually and place the right stakes, and you're on the right path. 'To make long-term profits you have to evaluate every bet on its own merits, never as a reflection of whether you're in front or behind on the day, month or year,' he said. 'The problem for many punters is their profitability rests not on how many winners they back, but the chronological order of those successes. 'To give an extreme example, if I knew I was going to back 50 winners out of 100 bets this season, I have the discipline to be certain that my profit would be exactly the same, whatever order those winners came in. But if every one of the first 50 of those 100 bets were losers, how many punters would still be in the game to back the 50 consecutive winners, even though the bets overall would have a 50% strike rate? Not many would have the psychological strength to keep their discipline after such a terrible initial run of results.' The other area where punters often suffer a mental block is in their inability to separate the excitement of betting from long-term profitability. The excitement is obvious - all punters, casual or otherwise, enjoy the process of gambling, sometimes as much as the winning itself. As US racing's speed figure guru Andy Beyer once said: 'The next best thing to winning at gambling is losing at gambling.' But in the long run, it's the bets placed just for the thrill of the chase that destroy most punters' profitability. Never place a bet just to add entertainment to an event if you're serious about making money. Winning to survive The correct-score or first-goalscorer tenners that punters bet 'just for a bit of interest' on a televised footie match are part-funding your bookies' new Bentley. As reported in InsideEdge last month, the bookies design certain bets to tempt you to punt. But for pro punters it's a different story. With no other Revenue streams, they have to win to survive and so must adopt a very different mental approach. They can't afford to take risks or have fun on casual bets. Every time they bet without doing the requisite research they're potentially jeopardising their lifestyle. Only by adopting a similar approach can you hope to regularly be in profit. 'Every punter ultimately has to make a decision,' Bloom said. 'Each of us has to ask ourselves whether we want to bet for fun or for profit - you can't combine the two. 'If it's for fun, then I have no problem with anyone having a gamble just to give them some entertainment during a sporting event with the chance of making some money. Those fivers and tenners lost to the bookies are no different from spending the money on a movie or a night at the bingo. 'But if you want to make a profit from betting, it's not about enjoyment, it's about making money - and that requires a completely different mindset. Long hours of research backed up by patience, discipline and an ability to detach yourself from the results, win or lose, are a psychological imperative for any successful punter - it's often a long way from fun.' So there you have it. The main reason you aren't a winning punter is you. But don't take it to heart - the monsters that get into our heads and make chasing losses or placing an interest bet seem like a good idea are visiting us all. As one of the pros added: 'The psychological dimension of gambling is always the hardest to conquer because we are all human, and everyone has their own mental threshold. 'Any pro, however disciplined, who tells you that he has never gone on tilt at some point is either lying or dead.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Better add Slapdash to those 3 people I mentioned earlier. He knows his stuff too. Will read that some other time Bowles got to study. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmac Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Right - have we made up now. Or will I have to send a letter home to parents....?! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Am trying Alex, my hand is there. Billy, I am sorry if you have misunderstood me, it seems BH misunderstood too, so may be I did not put it well enough. So, shake hands? Mark Happy to. All forgotten. :ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Better add Slapdash to those 3 people I mentioned earlier. He knows his stuff too. Now don't you go dragging me into this! :lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowles10 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? phew! now give us some fcukin winners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmac Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Hear hear! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnyman9000 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? My ambition at the moment is to find a system that im happy with! I may only be 23, but i have been into horse racing since college, so for 5 yrs now. In that time i have toyed with various systems, the majority of which ended up breaking even at best, others cost me slightly more during my younger days of short sightedness. So for the immediate future i wish to find myself a successful system. I prefer to develop my own systems rather than 'buying off the shelf' and ive always found that following a 'tipster' brings little joy. I have however spent the past 2 weeks trialing my own system, and so far it is showing an average profit of over 5 points per day! So im happy for now, but we'll see how i feel in a month or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fintron Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? good read Bowles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: What's your ambition (from a betting perspective)? Thanks for that Bowles, top quality read. Very informative (and somewhat potentially comforting) :ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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