Nade Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) I dont really know :unsure Maybe 20% (at this level) but that's a total stab in the dark..... ("normal" for a decent profitable player) Fair enough i guess that means there is no commonly defined ROI that a winning player should be attaining then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) :spankOMG...What have I said!!!:spank My post has been totally misinterpreted! I had absolutely no intention to imply ''after-timing'' at all. What I was intending to put across was that Gaf, or any player for that matter, had found a set of games that he was finding relatively easy to pull a profit on. To post them on here carries dangers that other PLers will, not intentionally of course, reduce the profitability by targetting the same set of games. I am always careful (not careful enough obviously) to ensure my posts will not offend anybody and there was no malice here, although I can see how my intentions were misunderstood. :$:$:$ Sorry GaF :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) :spankOMG...What have I said!!!:spank My post has been totally misinterpreted! I had absolutely no intention to imply ''after-timing'' at all. What I was intending to put across was that Gaf, or any player for that matter, had found a set of games that he was finding relatively easy to pull a profit on. To post them on here carries dangers that other PLers will, not intentionally of course, reduce the profitability by targetting the same set of games. I am always careful (not careful enough obviously) to ensure my posts will not offend anybody and there was no malice here, although I can see how my intentions were misunderstood. :$:$:$ Sorry GaF :ok In defence of Dodger, I also read his post as GaF being too helpful in highlighting profitable games, as opposed to it being a case of "after-timing". :hope GaF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gazza271 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) :spankOMG...What have I said!!!:spank My post has been totally misinterpreted! I had absolutely no intention to imply ''after-timing'' at all. What I was intending to put across was that Gaf, or any player for that matter, had found a set of games that he was finding relatively easy to pull a profit on. To post them on here carries dangers that other PLers will, not intentionally of course, reduce the profitability by targetting the same set of games. I am always careful (not careful enough obviously) to ensure my posts will not offend anybody and there was no malice here, although I can see how my intentions were misunderstood. :$:$:$ Sorry GaF :ok Dont think it was taken the wrong way mate :ok, I certainly did'nt read it like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppie Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) Must admit dodger my first thoughts were to dive on the $3 stts but the thought of playing gaf put me off in the end ;)so hit the fort knox instead on a different site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quiet Man Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) I've been playing the same $3 & $5 Turbo STT's for the last month! There's very easy money to be made! :ok There's also that many of them that you hardly come across the same player twice - I add some comments in the notes box of the Fish and then never meet them again!:lol Good luck with this GaF - I'd expect you to finish with many $1000's before you get embarrassed and close the thread! :ok TQM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) :spankOMG...What have I said!!!:spank My post has been totally misinterpreted! I had absolutely no intention to imply ''after-timing'' at all. What I was intending to put across was that Gaf, or any player for that matter, had found a set of games that he was finding relatively easy to pull a profit on. To post them on here carries dangers that other PLers will, not intentionally of course, reduce the profitability by targetting the same set of games. I am always careful (not careful enough obviously) to ensure my posts will not offend anybody and there was no malice here, although I can see how my intentions were misunderstood. :$:$:$ Sorry GaF :ok Sorry mate - just reread your thread, and it's perfectly clear - it's me who got it wrong - it's me who should be apologising - not you - Sorry!! To add though - even with my misunderstanding, no offence was taken - sure I'll respond with my perspective on the points (I thought) you were making - but there's no issues with you expressing your opinions on it... To answer your real point a bit further though - I dont intend staying around the $3/$5 games for long - so don't see an issue with publicising it - the liquidity is ample too for PL influence not to be significant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) Good luck with this GaF - I'd expect you to finish with many $1000's before you get embarrassed and close the thread! :ok :lol :lol In 2006 (I think) from January 1st I started recording my profit/loss in my Sig (as did a lot of others) - by February ish it was getting a bit high and I removed it out of embarassment :$ So you may well be right :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $167.19) I could never go back to playing these levels and frankly I do not really get the point. Every hour I play poker I like to maximise the amount of money I make. I guess my situation is different as I do not have a lot of playing hours to go at during the week but surely GaF the money you have made so far could have easily been made in an hour by a player of your caliber. Am I missing something :unsure best of luck anyway :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $167.19) I'm not playing them through a lack of bankroll - it's more for the "challenge" - overall that remains a bigger motivator for me in Poker at the moment than the money..... I dont tend to "grind" much/at all - my wins come through the occasional big ones...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaban Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $167.19) Good Luck with it GAF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $167.19) Great progress already :clap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $167.19) I guess my situation is different as I do not have a lot of playing hours to go at during the week I haven't put as long into it as it might appear - remember these are speed games and I play up to 3 at a time (open a new one every time blinds hit 50/100) - I'm probably playing not far off 8 games an hour..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) I'd like to know what you see as a 'normal' ROI in the long term? at full tables at least 20%, probably closer to 25% at low levels - if you can't manage that then you are probably not ready to move up. given my recent experience ( I know a pitiful sample size of nearly 40 games over a 2 day period ) I was placed ITM 50% of the time at the 5 handed turbo's and had a -tive ROI due to the majority of 2nd places I was getting. I can't see how these can be profitable in the long run due to the 70/30 split, if they made it 65/35 that would have a +tive difference to the ROI and make them more attractive Damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) I can't see how these can be profitable in the long run due to the 70/30 split, if they made it 65/35 that would have a +tive difference to the ROI and make them more attractive If you get your "fair share" of firsts and seconds, then 70/30 or 65/35 has no impact :unsure If you are a good HU player, then 70/30 is better If you are a bad HU player then 65/35 is better (and you're probably better off on full tables, whatever the split) I imagine with your aggression, you're not a bad HU player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) at full tables at least 20%, probably closer to 25% at low levels - if you can't manage that then you are probably not ready to move up. given my recent experience ( I know a pitiful sample size of nearly 40 games over a 2 day period ) I was placed ITM 50% of the time at the 5 handed turbo's and had a -tive ROI due to the majority of 2nd places I was getting. I can't see how these can be profitable in the long run due to the 70/30 split, if they made it 65/35 that would have a +tive difference to the ROI and make them more attractive Damo Ok thanks, i'm around a 'normal' level then as my pokeroffice stats show an 22% ROI in the $5 full normal speed SNG's with 42% ITM. I think Slapdash pointed out a while ago that the ROI can be seriously flawed as a reflection of results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) If you get your "fair share" of firsts and seconds, then 70/30 or 65/35 has no impact :unsure If you are a good HU player, then 70/30 is better If you are a bad HU player then 65/35 is better (and you're probably better off on full tables, whatever the split) I imagine with your aggression, you're not a bad HU player? I would agree with you I feel I am a slightly better than average HU player at this level due to the amount of games I have played in the last 3 or 4 years - now this is going to sound pompus but it isn't. I have a basic grasp of fold equity, I feel that others at this level don't, so with blinds at 200/400 and equal stacks of about 3K or so I would not call a shove on my BB with Q8 suited for instance, however others did when i shoved, so I end up being a 60/40 fav or so with my Ax Kx etc and lose - and I tried the tactic of a raise to 2BB as well and found i still got a call - so i figured I might as well shove and hope my 60/40 holds up, however it didn't on too many occasions :lol I think i had 3 firsts out of the 20 approx ITM finishes i had - it was pitiful :$ I remember in two games hitting an ace on the river to go with my AA and having that ace make their straight on the board when they called PF with Q10 etc lol I am going to shadow you at some point and watch you play to get some pointers (if thats ok?) Cheers Damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) now this is going to sound pompus but it isn't. I have a basic grasp of fold equity, I feel that others at this level don't, Their weakness is your strength ..... assuming your game is flexible enough to take advantage of their flaws.... The further from optimally they play, the bigger your advantage over them ..... poeple cannot play so badly that they increase their chance against you (assuming your game can adjust...) I am going to shadow you at some point and watch you play to get some pointers (if thats ok?) No problem :ok Not sure how useful it will be for you though :unsure (i''l get you on MSN and share hole cards) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) I think Slapdash pointed out a while ago that the ROI can be seriously flawed as a reflection of results. That was specifically with regards to the way it is calculated in Sharkscope IIRC - in general ROI over a long enough time span is probably the best way of measuring results.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffy Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $167.19) My bad results continue at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffy Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $167.19) My bad results continue at the moment. My last 9 games at $20 level 6,4,4,9,7,9,5,6,10 :@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $167.19) to follow on re HU play - hyper aggression is not the key, what is the most important thing for me is your read on the player you are playing if they are loose raise only top 20% of hands and limp the next 10% and raise more than your normal as they are more likely to call (for me that would be 4BB raise)if they are fairly tight then raise top 40% and keep it standard (for me thats about 2.5 BB) if they are a rock then raise everything and probably only a couple of blinds at most (sometimes a min raise and a half is enough) as they are likely to fold most hands, so you keep you variance low with minimum risk to your stack and if they do call you know you need help! the problem comes when the blinds to stack ratio is unfavourable because you end you shoving and calling with a wider range of hands as a 'normal 3BB raise' takes up 40% of our stack - thats when a grasp of fold equity comes into play and perhaps why i lost so many games. Its an obvious shove to me with K8 if I am first to act, but not an obvious call with Q6 if I am the BB to some one who has shoved. I found that players at this level did the opposite of what I would do in these situation and had me well kippered :lol (so they played perfectly against my style :ok) Damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $167.19) By the time I am HU on these I seldom make any moves other than all in or fold..... The most critical thing isn't your opponent IMO, it's stack size to blinds....If that is low enough, I'm all in with any 2 against any opponent.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) No problem :ok Not sure how useful it will be for you though :unsure (i''l get you on MSN and share hole cards) going through the gears - I play ultra tight from the off and wait and wait and wait - sometimes perhaps too long because I know that even if i shove my A8 on the button for my last 1K at 100/200 blinds the guy on the BB with 2000 is calling with his K10 coz its pretty...... (so i probably missed an opportunity the orbit before when i had 1300 chips to shove with J9 etc) i think you go thru the gears well and this is something I need to tweak Damo ps I know its a ball ache but if you prefer why not send me a few HH's when you shoved with less than good cards but in the right position - thats what I need to work on:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $167.19) By the time I am HU on these I seldom make any moves other than all in or fold..... The most critical thing isn't your opponent IMO, it's stack size to blinds....If that is low enough, I'm all in with any 2 against any opponent.... having played them i agree, you are normally HU by 200/400 at least, so any raise is a fair proportion of your stack (3K) I find that in a full game, with a few more chips you still get to HU at 150/300 200/400, but have maybe 6K to play with rather than 3K, so twice as many blinds leaves a bit more room to play Damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $122.18) I know its a ball ache but if you prefer why not send me a few HH's when you shoved with less than good cards but in the right position - thats what I need to work on:ok I will dig out a few hands (in a new thread) once I can get into Paradise (wont be long, I'm playing embarassingly poorly on Virgin - wont be around much longer - I think Sam's sledging got me :tongue2)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $167.19) this is what I mean about FE - yes I am a shortie and yes the other shortie calls, but I would never make the call the SB did even with that stack - its another 370 to win 890 in a multi way pot he is risking nearly a 1/5th of his stack with K2s :eyes and thats the reason he called, they are soooooooted - I bet fecking womble doesn't realise he is only about 2% better with K2s than with K2 off hahahahahahahaha Damo ***** Hand 760614895 ***** 25.00/50.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 20 September 2007 21:16:33 5 Player $5 NL (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: LEOWIN25 (480.00) Seat 2: corrado54 (2355.00) Seat 3: Kissgé (1855.00) Seat 4: badboy35 (2390.00) Seat 5: robilaruk (420.00) badboy35 post SB 25.00 robilaruk post BB 50.00 ** Deal ** robilaruk [Ad, 4h] *** Bet Round 1 *** LEOWIN25 Call 50.00 corrado54 Fold Kissgé Fold badboy35 Call 50.00 robilaruk All-in 420.00 LEOWIN25 Call 420.00 badboy35 Call 420.00 *** Flop(Board): *** : [Qs, 9c, As] *** Bet Round 2 *** badboy35 Check LEOWIN25 Check *** Turn(Board): *** : [Qs, 9c, As, 10d] *** Bet Round 3 *** badboy35 Check LEOWIN25 Check *** River(Board): *** : [Qs, 9c, As, 10d, Jd] *** Bet Round 4 *** badboy35 Bet 200.00 LEOWIN25 Fold *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 1260.00 LEOWIN25 Fold Win: 0.00 corrado54 Fold Win: 0.00 Kissgé Fold Win: 0.00 badboy35 [Kd, 2d] Ace high straight Win: 1260.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $167.19) he is risking nearly a 1/5th of his stack with K2s :eyes and thats the reason he called, they are soooooooted - I bet fecking womble doesn't realise he is only about 2% better with K2s than with K2 off I say again - their weakness is your strength ......you WANT them to be playing badly - then it's just a question of working out how you can best profit from it - the better they play, the harder it is to work out how to beat them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Re: GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank $167.19) I say again - their weakness is your strength ......you WANT them to be playing badly - then it's just a question of working out how you can best profit from it - the better they play' date=' the harder it is to work out how to beat them....[/quote'] I agree entirley and I think I have - just play on the flop when i know how good my hand is rather than gamble PF. though in the last game even though I had OESD 98 on 764r board the villian decided to call my CRAI for another 1400 with his AK just in case...... :rollin Damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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