Turning the screw

[erhaab1965]

As myself and many others on here have noticed over the years, the bookies have been slowly turning the screw on us punters. As highlighted in other threads their EW terms are much much worse than in the past, like offering 2 places ante post when 10 are still in the betting. I highlighted that Fred and Hills now apply their Lucky15 bonuses on the profit and not the returns which was previously the case. This morning I was in Cor.als for a coffee and a read of the papers when I started reading the small print on their Liucky 15 slips. They now on longer apply any bonuses now for 4 winners , it's only Lucky 31s where they only give you 10% on 5 winners. How much more can the screw be turned?

[Primevil]

Re: Turning the screw

As myself and many others on here have noticed over the years, the bookies have been slowly turning the screw on us punters. As highlighted in other threads their EW terms are much much worse than in the past, like offering 2 places ante post when 10 are still in the betting. I highlighted that Fred and Hills now apply their Lucky15 bonuses on the profit and not the returns which was previously the case. This morning I was in Cor.als for a coffee and a read of the papers when I started reading the small print on their Liucky 15 slips. They now on longer apply any bonuses now for 4 winners , it's only Lucky 31s where they only give you 10% on 5 winners. How much more can the screw be turned?

I was led to believe there are pots of gold inside bookmakers. Gosh.:unsure

[BillyHills]

Re: Turning the screw Its because punters just use the shops for drinking coffee and reading their papers these days:ok

[Aidymac]

Re: Turning the screw

Its because punters just use the shops for drinking coffee and reading their papers these days:ok

:clap Aye Erhaab, stop your whining, and get a bloody good single bet on summit! Lucky 15's... Pffffffffffft! The chances of getting 4 winners is close to nil anyways, so there is no need to worry about a bloody bonus.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Turning the screw Yes I am whining , but it's on behalf of the punters who do them on a regular basis. I'm well aware they are hard to get up, and if I do them which is not very often its only to relatively small stakes, so it doesn't affect me, but that's not my point. Yes most days, I go in for a read and a brew ( which I'd happily pay for but are free nowadays in a lot of shops), which costs them in heating/rent/tea/milk but they recoup that and more by giving us punters less back in returns. Mini rant over, just a bit peeved this morning because I know a lot of older ( than myself ) /retired punters like to do these bets on a daily basis and there are less rewards when they get once every leap year.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Turning the screw Only light hearted rant no need for protracted debate.

[Aidymac]

Re: Turning the screw All the muggers in the bookies get free coffee/tea and bikkies every day Erhaab. That alone is a nice gesture, and gets people in. At the end of the day a bookies is a business. Just like a normal Tesco's, they have special offers that will expire after a certain period. If you get 4 winners up in a Lucky 15, you won't care about a bonus. In my local paddy powers, they give you a yankee 11 bets for the price of 10, treble the odds one winner in a L15 etc. It's not all bad.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Turning the screw Agree with all your points Aidymac, it's just business. If they spend £5 (approx 6 Euros) at the pound shop they'd get enough tea bags/sugar/powdered milk/biscuits to keep punters refreshed for a week. Good business. They make that back hundred of times over.

[Aidymac]

Re: Turning the screw

Agree with all your points Aidymac' date=' it's just business. If they spend £5 (approx 6 Euros) at the pound shop they'd get enough tea bags/sugar/powdered milk/biscuits to keep punters refreshed for a week. Good business. They make that back hundred of times over.[/quote'] You don't see free tea and biscuits in tesco's. ;) Put yourself in the shoes of the bookmakers, if you were the owner. Different mindset then. 60% of betting is now online, you do the math.

[jayalexander]

Re: Turning the screw Regarding free beverages: I've never been offered any in my home town of Milton Keynes, but in London's East End and also in Wellingborough I was offered a cuppa!

[erhaab1965]

Re: Turning the screw Not having a go at you Aidymac specifically but in general (you are great for the forum). But I find that a lot of the contributors on here don't like to say anything negative . Anything bad said about bookies, trainers,Jockeys etc is brushed to one side. We're not going to change any policy by having a debate/rant every once in a while but it would be a change from reading just tips.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Turning the screw ;)

Regarding free beverages: I've never been offered any in my home town of Milton Keynes' date=' but in London's East End and also in Wellingborough I was offered a cuppa![/quote'] If you can afford to live in Milton Keynes, you can afford to go to Starbucks.:D

[jayalexander]

Re: Turning the screw

Not having a go at you Aidymac specifically but in general (you are great for the forum). But I find that a lot of the contributors on here don't like to say anything negative . Anything bad said about bookies, trainers,Jockeys etc is brushed to one side. We're not going to change any policy by having a debate/rant every once in a while but it would be a change from reading just tips.

People come here for tips though, and perhaps to learn more about the sport. This is especially the case for those new to horseracing. The negativity may put some of the new blood off and I feel that there are members who only post a few positive notes, so a balance between positive and negative would be grand :)

[erhaab1965]

Re: Turning the screw I'm not sure whether any negativity actually puts newbies off. Everybody on here loves the sport including myself, any negativity is just highlighting aspects which is of concern. Nobody is saying ”...I hate bookies...I hate this trainer.....I hate that jockey....". Instead what they actually mean is don't have a bet with this bookie coz this particular bookie is offering this and that or watch out for this trainer because he has a tendency to run unfit horses etc etc... Or watch out for A Culhane coz he has is infamous for not getting the best possible finishing position. I certainly don't hate A Culhane. People have highlighted him, so other members don't fall into the trap of doing their dough on a non trier.

[Primevil]

Re: Turning the screw There now must be alot of people, especially the OLD , trying to keep warm in these times. And if they put a £2 bet on, Nohalmdone, Cheaper than putting the heating on. Plus some banter, and free papers to read. Problem is for all that they are welcome from the staff with a smile.....The men at the top dont want this punter anymore, The L15 50p of this world. A bang of sand in the FOBT is what they want, alas the times are closing in..£2 max spin by the end of the year:nana, Then and only then will the offers come back, Thank god our goverment is finally doing something over the machines, Better for all punters in the UK, the sooner it happens.:ok

[The Saint]

Not having a go at you Aidymac specifically but in general (you are great for the forum). But I find that a lot of the contributors on here don't like to say anything negative . Anything bad said about bookies, trainers,Jockeys etc is brushed to one side. We're not going to change any policy by having a debate/rant every once in a while but it would be a change from reading just tips.

If u could ask, u might find that people are scared to post anything at all for fear of being jumped on or accused of being negative. Maybe there should be some clear rules about what can and can't be said on subjects such as Jockeys, Bookmakers, Trainers etc. I'm not sure what constitutes putting the site in jeopardy and what doesn't to be honest so I say nothing :(

[erhaab1965]

Re: Turning the screw FOTBs........you've got it spot on Primeval, £2 a spin is the right way,just means punters will be queing out the door waiting for others to exhaust their dough. The bookies are just modern day drug dealers,they even have 1000s of staff members hooked,they nip into rival bookies during their fag break for a quick fix.

[bowles10]

Re: Turning the screw my take is that a bonus is a bonus, it helps along the way but the bookies only offer it so you choose them over another bookie. You will find them if you search around along enough. I do L15's with a few bookies, i have no idea what bonuses they pay. If i am lucky to get 4 winners up, i will be happy with that :) I never have a bet in the bookies these days and used to live in them before online accounts were available. The thing that annoys me about bookies is they only ever moan about losing money on certain days etc and normal;y when they have offered up a decent money back bet etc however they make an absolute fortune so never feel sorry for them :)

[BillyHills]

Re: Turning the screw

If u could ask' date=' u might find that people are scared to post anything at all for fear of being jumped on or accused of being negative. Maybe there should be some clear rules about what can and can't be said on subjects such as Jockeys, Bookmakers, Trainers etc. I'm not sure what constitutes putting the site in jeopardy and what doesn't to be honest so I say nothing :([/quote'] Nothing puts the site in jeopardy Saint and you probably already know that, but certain people just love to have a go at every single opportunity when anything goes wrong with their betting life. Its juts that we at the PL dont want to be like the other forums, it gets you down after a while and if you really want to complain all the time then go on betfair or the racing forum and join in with them, they will be happy to agree with all thats wrong in the sport and you lot can have a right old chin wag on how to put the world straight. Some moan that its all about tips on here, but let me guess who moans about that, the people who dont put tips on here!! in case they give away another little edge away to the reading millions, come on guys we are here to enjoy our sport and most have signed up for that in the first place, some come across as lonely old people with nothing better to do and then we get accused of being the PL Police Force for trying to point out that its not all that bad in this game. If you ask me the real PL Police are those who jump on the keyboard and report that a jockey has made a mistake, a trainer has pulled off a gamble (but we missed it so it must be bad) or a bookie has restricted a bet. Its nothing new and been going on for a few years yet those very same people carry on taking part in a sport they obviously have a problem or two with. In my opinion its them who have the problem and cant either accept that life aint what it used to be like when bookies were popular places and they were happy to accommodate punters because their turnover was double what it is now or can move on and find something else to try and beat the bookies with. Just to clarify once and for all, the red letter guys on here (as some call them) have no instructions on how to moderate the forum, Paul never gives us a policy to follow, ever. You will have to trust me on that one but its true. I totally accept that certain issues will be discussed, good and bad things about Racing and i have contributed to them, but since the turn of the year it has come a fad to point out all sorts of stuff that is totally one sided and when you look at the forum as a whole (like i often do) it can look a very negative place to belong to and hence may put new members off from signing up, thats my one and only concern. Another myth is that we censor threads all the time, well can someone point out how many threads have been moved in the last 6 months, i can only think of one and personally have never deleted a thread in this section unless it was a duplicate or something on the admin side. Nothing has been deleted from the Jockeys or Trainers thread so not sure what the problem is there, the bookmakers have a section of their own because of any problems that may arise then Paul needs to know about it so its better all in one place. (the PL has helped many punters in that section with queries by the way, but that wont get reported!) Basically you can say what you like about who you like, no rules here, but don't be surprised if others give the opposite view to you, when that happens dont take it as the PL Police are on your case like Mr erhaab seems to do all of the time.

[The Saint]

Fair points as always BH. Although to be fair, I can think of 4 threads that have been removed this year - all concerning Bookmakers. It doesn't matter - I think the site should protect its own interests. I'm trying to protect mine and other punters when I whinge about Bookmaker limits so it would make me a hypocrite if I said otherwise - there is bound to be a conflict in interests there!! An obvious problems is that obviously we/you will only get opinions from current posters who are happy with the site as it is because they are posting!!! Those that pop in and bugger off again can never be asked what they think. I'm certainly not criticising the site or its moderation. I agree, the site should be protected from becoming like The Betfair Community but obviously there is a balance to be achieved between just tips and other threads! Glad it's not my problem to sort ;) - keep up the good work :)

[onecog]

Re: Turning the screw They didn't turn the screw on me yesterday. Read my post titled.......Amazing. Someone was feeling generous.

[The Saint]

They didn't turn the screw on me yesterday. Read my post titled.......Amazing. Someone was feeling generous.

What was going in there then?! I did read it after the event and assumed that a Bookmaker must have been well out of line and would have claimed palpable error if that particular selection won! As a rule of thumb I find that if something looks too good to e true it very often is! Having said that, well done on spotting it and getting paid on it. Great stuff!

[BillyHills]

Re: Turning the screw The worst thing is we are looking out of our windows today at the snow when we should be concentrating on the first big race of the new flat season and looking forward to two very nice mares' races at Newbury. Instead we find ourselves contributing to a thread about a bonus on a multiple bet, that sums it up i suppose:lol Roll on some good weather for next week and the week after for Aintree:ok

[Aidymac]

Re: Turning the screw Saint, I can't recall a single positive comment coming out of you in all the time I have been here. It's you that has the issues mate, nobody else. You have a grudge against racing for some reason, I don't know why, but you do. Also, those bookmakers threads that were deleted were not deleted, they were moved to the right part of the forum. It is also true what BH says, Paul does not tell us how to moderate, he trusts us to have our own judgement on situations, and if a mod does step out of line, he is told. And for some reason, every little chance you get, you try and have a go at the mod's, thinking we (or mostly I) come down on people like a tonne of bricks when it is not the case. The last thing I want to see happen is this place turn into a circus (i.e. Betfair forum), and I assure you people that are negative 100% of the time and drag the forum down, it won't be tolerated. That may sound heavy handed, but that's just the way it is. There are far too many good things about racing to keep dwelling on the bad things over and over.

[The Saint]

Re: Turning the screw

Saint, I can't recall a single positive comment coming out of you in all the time I have been here. It's you that has the issues mate, nobody else. You have a grudge against racing for some reason, I don't know why, but you do. Also, those bookmakers threads that were deleted were not deleted, they were moved to the right part of the forum. It is also true what BH says, Paul does not tell us how to moderate, he trusts us to have our own judgement on situations, and if a mod does step out of line, he is told. And for some reason, every little chance you get, you try and have a go at the mod's, thinking we (or mostly I) come down on people like a tonne of bricks when it is not the case. The last thing I want to see happen is this place turn into a circus (i.e. Betfair forum), and I assure you people that are negative 100% of the time and drag the forum down, it won't be tolerated. That may sound heavy handed, but that's just the way it is. There are far too many good things about racing to keep dwelling on the bad things over and over.

I'd like to rise above this but I can't. Are you kidding me!?! You've just jumped all over me now haven't u?? I don't agree in the slightest Aidy - I must have started a ton of posts that were good disscussion posts last year. I've got no problem with Racing at all. I've accepted it's corrupt and I've adjusted the way I bet in accordance with what I believe. I DO have a massive problem with cheating and rule breaking but that's because I treat Horse Racing as a sport and hate cheating across all sport. I love Racing - I go racing and have worked in racing. I have a problem/grudge with Bookmakers and have no idea why you think I am ante horse racing!! I am genuinnly interested to know where you draw these conclusions from. I've often defended Jockey's and we all know that Trainers don't always run their horses on their merits but so what - I've rarely complained about this - just learned from it. The Bookmakers threads have been deleted - it's not in the Bookmakers section anymore - and I apologise unreservedly if it is still there. Not entirely sure why moderating has come up either - I stated in my last post that I have no problem with the site or the moderation. I think you are being a little paranoid if I'm honest. As YOU bought it up, I think that the Admin you do as a moderator is 2nd only to BH and one can only admire your committment, passion and dedication for that. I don't think you come down on newbies liek a tonne of bricks at all. If I have any criticism at all it's that you do pick on certain posters - Primevil and Erhaab for 2 and I guess I'll add myself to that list too!! To be completely Black and White, I preferred it when you weren't moderating purely becasue we could argue and discuss things on a level playing field where as now I don't feel I am talking to the real you whom I 'met' on the forum a year ago or whatever. I'm glad you agree with exactly what I said concerning the site turning into a circus but please don't assume to tell me what will and won't be tolerated. I appreciate your work Aidy but that really does sound heavy handed. It IS hard to take considering that you can be at least as aggressive as me and other posters and have been in the past. If getting your name in Red gives you a pass for all previous misdemenours then so be it - good on ya. I've got no grudge with you at all - just becasue I think you are a better poster when you were being yourself it does not mean I have a problem with you at all. Madness!!!

[Stakes n chips]

Re: Turning the screw

As myself and many others on here have noticed over the years, the bookies have been slowly turning the screw on us punters. As highlighted in other threads their EW terms are much much worse than in the past, like offering 2 places ante post when 10 are still in the betting. I highlighted that Fred and Hills now apply their Lucky15 bonuses on the profit and not the returns which was previously the case. This morning I was in Cor.als for a coffee and a read of the papers when I started reading the small print on their Liucky 15 slips. They now on longer apply any bonuses now for 4 winners , it's only Lucky 31s where they only give you 10% on 5 winners. How much more can the screw be turned?

I think bookmakers still want to keep your business but they would much prefer to have in online, or better still by mobile. From a business point of view the cost savings on premises etc could be enormous if the high street biggies were able to convert most of their shop client base. Offers for using mobile platforms are in general pretty darn good at the moment, particularly amongst the larger players in the market...well worth adjusting how you bet imho. (apologies for breaking up the current discussions people - my brain is playing catch up!)

[mowgli77]

Re: Turning the screw I hate when threads like this turn into personal spats and arguments rather than debate and discussion. Some of the negative stuff posted on here drags the forum down. Don't get me wrong if there is stuff going on that is screwing over the punters I feel it definitely needs highlighting but with the way some posters go on I wonder why they bother to watch racing or post on here at times. To be fair to The Saint, I know he does this as a career at the moment rather than a hobby so a bookie screwing him would mean more than a bookie screwing me over, it's his livelihood and the food in his kids mouths whereas for me I work full time and betting is a sideline. Nothing wrong with a good discussion/debate whatever the topic but no need for all the arguments all the time. I think we are all here for the same reason, to make money from betting on the racing. There should be plenty to talk about, Black Caviar winning again or Danedream being in foal to Frankel 2 recent examples or even Sprinter Sacre going up in trip and the potential for Simonsig QMCC 2014 and Sprinter Sacre Ryanair 2014. There is no them and us mentality here, all mods are posters first and foremost and contribute to the forum, there is no power trip to ban people or delete threads. It's more a case of keeping the place tidy and keeping a level of quality with reasoning, hence why I closed The % Man's thread but gave an explanation as why to go with it.

[The Saint]

Re: Turning the screw To be 110% crystal clear, I have no problem with Punters Lounge as a Site or any of the Moderation which I think is first class and completely essential. I do not like that I am percieved to be negative and to have never offered anything positive. That's upsetting but I will live! There are more important things in life for sure. Good Luck to all today as always:ok

[mowgli77]

Re: Turning the screw

I think bookmakers still want to keep your business but they would much prefer to have in online' date=' or better still by mobile. From a business point of view the cost savings on premises etc could be enormous if the high street biggies were able to convert most of their shop client base. Offers for using mobile platforms are in general pretty darn good at the moment, particularly amongst the larger players in the market...well worth adjusting how you bet imho. (apologies for breaking up the current discussions people - my brain is playing catch up!)[/quote'] It makes no sense to take a price in a high street bookies with no BOG rather than taking a price online with the same bookie and getting the BOG. Any right minded shrewd punter is online unless limited and on Betfair. The shops are filled with the FOBT players now and footy betting on a weekend. I haven't seen their figures for horse racing takings but surely they will down compared to say 5-10 years ago. The high street bookies is one moan people have yet the on course bookies are even worse, offering 1/7th odds each way at some courses. If you can get wifi or 3g you might as well place a bet through your phone, get better odds, better ew terms and BOG rather than taking prices on course. Surprisingly the odds at Haydock and Wetherby recently have been ok and ew terms were as they should be yet last season on the flat they were a disgrace. Only a matter of time before a lot of these bookies pack it in.

[The Saint]

Re: Turning the screw

It makes no sense to take a price in a high street bookies with no BOG rather than taking a price online with the same bookie and getting the BOG. Any right minded shrewd punter is online unless limited and on Betfair. The shops are filled with the FOBT players now and footy betting on a weekend. I haven't seen their figures for horse racing takings but surely they will down compared to say 5-10 years ago. The high street bookies is one moan people have yet the on course bookies are even worse' date=' offering 1/7th odds each way at some courses. If you can get wifi or 3g you might as well place a bet through your phone, get better odds, better ew terms and BOG rather than taking prices on course. Surprisingly the odds at Haydock and Wetherby recently have been ok and ew terms were as they should be yet last season on the flat they were a disgrace. Only a matter of time before a lot of these bookies pack it in.[/quote'] Getting back on topic, I do think that Timeform are ahead of the game and there is a defiante possibility that Betfair/Exchange SP becomes the industry standard when returns are given out for Racing. I don't know what percentage of Bookmaker profit is through Horse Racing anymore but I'm not even sure they would be completely against it either if the income from FOBTs, Football, 49s and Virtual Racing is enough. I know my natural inclination is to talk/discuss in Betfair SP, exchange movements and decimal odds now which I would have seen as ridiculous even 4 or 5 years ago! I've quite possibly been very slow on the uptake mind you :(