rule 4 query at Towcester

[danj2202]

I still often pop in the bookies on my lunch or when I have a spare hour in the day while I am at Uni and I can see this from both points of view. Depending on which Bookie I go in, the service you get in them and the people that frequent them are vastly different. Due to time constraints I might have to go in the bookies that is full of people that you would expect in a busy town centre shop. I actually went in last week to put a bet on and could not believe it when I seen some man shouting and swearing at the screen. He wasn't shouting at his horse getting beat or his dog getting beat but was screaming at the screen at the daily 49's. There was a little old couple sat in front of him and I could see the old lady didn't want to hear what he was shouting and she got up and left. In the same bookies a couple of years ago a man put a stool through one of the roulette machines. I asked behind the counter how much he had lost and she said £20. Absolutely ridiculous. It's these types of people that the staff shouldn't have to deal with but unfortunately you are going to get them all the time in that environment. I for one would not be able to keep calm if someone started shouting at me because they had lost 50p. I find it hard enough to keep calm working part-time in a coffee shop! On the other hand the shop I go into near where I live is brilliant. The staff are all friendly and everyone that goes in is nice. Very rarely do you get any riff-raff in but I think it makes a massive difference when the atmosphere of a shop is good. One thing I have noticed a couple of times when going into a bookies are when a race is about to go off, you get a mad rush to the counter with everyone trying to get their bets on. I have seen a few times people going to collect their winnings only to be told that they didn't get the bet on in time. I don't know how it works but when exactly does the cashier know that the bet isn't on? Is it when they put it through the machine to put it on or is it when they flash the slip after the race? I would be extremely frustrated if this happened to me but touch wood it never will.

The example of the late bets. With my lot they dont know till the result is through. However my staff are all working to the brief of you take the bet you pay it out and its your neck as to refuse to pay a winner after the race is outrageously unfair. Knock it back before the race or pay it out. Doesnt help when the company leaves "still betting at sp" on the screens for ages after the off though Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[danj2202]

I will add it never ceases to amaze me how many customers are caught by surprise when the 4.10 race starts at 4.10. I mean who would have expected that? Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[The Saint]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

When this happens it is a deliberate act of fraud. They are hoping you have backed a loser and they just pocket the money

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow!!! When was that said!?! I managed many different Bookmakers in the 90s - before the screens/automated bet systems came in. It was basically down to my disgression as to how long after the off I could take bets.... IT WAS MY MAJOR BUG BEAR WITH PUNTERS THOUGH!!!! WHY oh why, do people feel the need to run up to the counter just before or just after the off?!?! It's mental!!! I have yet to have a decent explanation!!!! Seriously - I would love to hear one!! The only thing I could think of was that you want/ed to ensure that your horse starts the race.... Well 'that' was a false dawn - yeah, you may have gotten away with one in every 5,000 where your particular horse had refused to race but there was no way I was taking a bet from you once any horse had planted itself at the start!!! Punters of Exeter, Plymouth, Cornwall, Honiton and Bristol - all you ever gained from this annoying tactic was to annoy the hell out of me!! Maybe you managed a little sex wee every time you did it but seriously?! What was the point?! SOMEONE EXPLAIN IT TO ME PLEASE???!!!!!!!

[danj2202]

My neck of the woods that is saint and i can assure you things as expected are unchanged Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[The Saint]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

My neck of the woods that is saint and i can assure you things as expected are unchanged Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

I can't say I miss it Dan! I used to work for Vickers Bookmakers - mainly in Cowick Street in Exeter. We got taken over by Stanley Racing (then fruit machines and 49s turned up and I got out!) and then William Hill.... Where are u based?

[danj2202]

Magic sign burnthouse lane. Live just behind the shopping precinct on cowick street. Your old shop is the hills opposite sawyers then! Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[erhaab1965]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester When punters put bets on after the off in my local Betfred the cashier always says "..let me check if its been accepted .." In another Betfred a mile away they don't do this , although I appreciate the other cashier is being nice and doesn't have to do it. In this Betfred over the years the manageress has tried to short change me on numerous ocassions. One of her favorite tricks is to underpay by £1 exactly on mulitple bets. Having been ripped off by mostly independant bookies from time to time in my younger days I always carried a calculator to calculate my returns prior to collection. I noticed quite often this particular manageress would short change me when doing mulitples and on football coupons. On some occasions when I got multiple bets up I'd send in a friend to collect only to have them come back with £1 less than expected just to test out my theory. I noticed a lot of pensioners would question the manageress about the returns , obviously I don't know what the bets/returns are but I suspect she is making a few quid a day short changing punters. I believe over 95% are honest , but there'll always be those who are out there is make a few extra quid by ripping off punters/employers.

[erhaab1965]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

Pretty strong allegation, not sure we should be using those terms to be honest as you have no proof whatsoever or know how the system works in all shops. In my local shop it isn't known whether a bet is too late until the bar code is flashed from the bet receipt, which cant be done until the backer brings it to the counter, whether that be straight after the race or an hour later. Punters sit there all day and rush up at the very last second and its the bookies fault half the time? PS: The punter can always ask the cashier to flash the bet as soon as it is put on just to double check if its void or not before the race has finished, a guy i know who often puts dogs bets on the bell always does this.

I'm not naming any individuals just saying it goes on. Can't say what the system is for all firms but I know some cashiers know when bets are not accepted , so to not say anything when the horse loses and the punter remains in the shop is what I would consider fraud. Also a cashier told me they are no longer allowed to inform regular punters who have winning bets which have not been collected in a long time , even though they recognise the winning punters handwriting. Isn't that unethical too ? Are they called "sleeper bets" in your trade ?

[The Saint]

Magic sign burnthouse lane. Live just behind the shopping precinct on cowick street. Your old shop is the hills opposite sawyers then! Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

No - but I would understand why u would say that! My shop last time I looked, was a Cheers off license... Same customers most likely!! Massive unit - it was a nice shop actually. The Hills u refer to were our main rivals!!

[The Saint]

Small World!!

[The Saint]

I'm not naming any individuals just saying it goes on. Can't say what the system is for all firms but I know some cashiers know when bets are not accepted , so to not say anything when the horse loses and the punter remains in the shop is what I would consider fraud. Also a cashier told me they are no longer allowed to inform regular punters who have winning bets which have not been collected in a long time , even though they recognise the winning punters handwriting. Isn't that unethical too ? Are they called "sleeper bets" in your trade ?

They were sleepers back in my day Erhaab. As far as short changing punters, you wouldn't dare in Exeter - not knowingly anyway. And pensioners nearly always query their 2p ew across the card bollox bets that are impossible to read!! They didn't like me! If I had returns of 73p down and they said it was 79 - which they would - I'd give them a quid!! I think the settling was the best part for them but 99 times out of 100 they were wrong bless em!

[LoveNorthernRacing]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester Oh jeez! I used to get that all the time too! I had an old sod that just loves to argue that goes out of his way to find the open races at all the nights greyhound meetings and he puts 2p E/W Doubles, Trebles, Fourfolds, 5p E/W Singles, 10p Wins, 8p Wins.... just totally random different amounts on all of them.... knowing full well they won't go in our system. So I have to settle them, then wait for him to debate the returns on every single slip he comes in with the next day. I now tell him if he can show me how hes working out that he should get more with a calculator, pen and paper he can have the difference! He doesnt debate the returns anymore. :lol Maybe not the greatest example of customer service but enough is enough, the betting shop I manage is busy on a morning I don't need that hassle! I had to VELCRO the bleeding rules chart to the wall in my shop as I have to get it down so often to show punters various different rules! Even had one guy threatening to write off to IBAS as he felt he was paid TOO MUCH a couple of years ago!!! :lol

[Haystacks]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

the poor bookies manager... you nearly think the punter was taking money from your pocket... you will be glad to hear i was de-barred, but refused an apology, a few regulars instead said they would stop coming if i was barred... victory to the punter

No idea why on earth you think you deserved an apology after: 1. You were the one that was wrong about the rules. 2. You then behaved badly to the staff. Honestly think you should man up and take the staff a box of chocolates and an apology.

[Aidymac]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

I'm not naming any individuals just saying it goes on. Can't say what the system is for all firms but I know some cashiers know when bets are not accepted , so to not say anything when the horse loses and the punter remains in the shop is what I would consider fraud. Also a cashier told me they are no longer allowed to inform regular punters who have winning bets which have not been collected in a long time , even though they recognise the winning punters handwriting. Isn't that unethical too ? Are they called "sleeper bets" in your trade ?

A cashier has nothing whatsoever to gain from ripping off a punter, they get paid the same amount of money at the end of the week. Pure drivel

[The Saint]

A cashier has nothing whatsoever to gain from ripping off a punter' date=' they get paid the same amount of money at the end of the week. Pure drivel[/quote'] Unless.... I had a cashier once who I taught to do mental settling. She wasnt ripping the customer off that I am aware but was ripping the company off a treat!! I'd obviously settle te bets and hand them to her, she would do her thing and pay the bets out and let me know how much she had paid out.... The sly bunt was adding a 1 or 2 in front of my returns and pocketing the 10 or 20 quid!! Being more interested in reading form than checking her payout lists, she got away with it for too long!!! How I kept my job after that I have no idea!!!

[The Saint]

Someone should write a book.... 'Adventures in Bookmaking!'

[cpo]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester I once went into a bookies and was asked by the girl behind the counter if I wanted to know how much I had bet in total in that shop and how much I had won in total. At first I thought what the hell is she going on about so I asked her and she told me that due to the type of bets, the amount I was staking and my handwriting someone had worked out how much I had bet in total since I had been going into this shop. I didn't really want to know as I was dreading how much I had money I had wasted in this one shop but I said OK then tell me. She told me and I was extremely shocked how much money I had bet in this one shop. I knew this wouldn't be an exact amount but she said that very few people that came into the shop were staking what I would put on a bet so it was pretty accurate. The good thing was that I was actually in profit but that still didn't stop me feeling a little funny about them working that out behind the counter. I very rarely go in that shop now but has anyone else ever heard of this type of thing going on in a bookies?

[keithbeaky]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester Priceless.

[Cons]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

I don't know how it works but when exactly does the cashier know that the bet isn't on?

Depends on the length of the race, there is a 'window' of lateness for sure, well back in 2009 there was anyway. EDIT: Also we did see winning bets on the screen and were told not to tell the winners about them, and I know of a guy who got sacked from fishing out non-runners from the bins and cashing them in. Tiz a dirty business

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester Tiz a dirty business How very very true.

[erhaab1965]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

Depends on the length of the race, there is a 'window' of lateness for sure, well back in 2009 there was anyway. EDIT: Also we did see winning bets on the screen and were told not to tell the winners about them, and I know of a guy who got sacked from fishing out non-runners from the bins and cashing them in.

When bets are taken after the " off " the cashiers may not know if the bet has been accepted , but when they have to enter the bets into the system surely they will be made aware that some bets have been taken too late and are not accepted. To not tell the punter if he is still in the shop is when I'd call fraud especially if the horse loses and the punter throws his slip away. Only twice on differerent occasions/shops had I backed a non runner and gone to collect on a different day with the original slip only to find somebody had already collected my returned stake. I can only think that a cashier had collected as nobody else would have known about my non runner bets and they also saw me leave the shop.

[erhaab1965]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

Unless.... I had a cashier once who I taught to do mental settling. She wasnt ripping the customer off that I am aware but was ripping the company off a treat!! I'd obviously settle te bets and hand them to her' date=' she would do her thing and pay the bets out and let me know how much she had paid out.... The sly bunt was adding a 1 or 2 in front of my returns and pocketing the 10 or 20 quid!! Being more interested in reading form than checking her payout lists, she got away with it for too long!!! How I kept my job after that I have no idea!!![/quote'] In the nearest betting shop to my home I went to collect 5 winning slips which amounted to several hundreds of pounds , the assistant manager paid me the exact amount less £10. I went to sit down and pulled out my calculator with the Racing Post results page open , a minute later he came over and said there was an error in the system which meant the wrong amounts came on the screen and gave me the missing £10....what a liar !! Its been over 10 years since I've been in that shop , he's now the manager.

[erhaab1965]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

A cashier has nothing whatsoever to gain from ripping off a punter' date=' they get paid the same amount of money at the end of the week. Pure drivel[/quote'] Very niave statement mate , betting shop fraud happens a lot , I've witnessed it dozens of times. If you are due £106.59 and get back £105.69 or a lesser amount , I'd put it down to fraud before computer error. You should accept part of the blame if you cannot work out your returns too.

[BillyHills]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

I once went into a bookies and was asked by the girl behind the counter if I wanted to know how much I had bet in total in that shop and how much I had won in total. At first I thought what the hell is she going on about so I asked her and she told me that due to the type of bets' date=' the amount I was staking and my handwriting someone had worked out how much I had bet in total since I had been going into this shop. I didn't really want to know as I was dreading how much I had money I had wasted in this one shop but I said OK then tell me. She told me and I was extremely shocked how much money I had bet in this one shop. I knew this wouldn't be an exact amount but she said that very few people that came into the shop were staking what I would put on a bet so it was pretty accurate. The good thing was that I was actually in profit but that still didn't stop me feeling a little funny about them working that out behind the counter. I very rarely go in that shop now but has anyone else ever heard of this type of thing going on in a bookies?[/quote'] Cpo, we had to log any punter who had an effect on the business, now that doesn't necessarily mean they were winning punters, if one person was responsible for anywhere near 5% of the turnover we had to note down every single bet they had that day and keep them in a file. The shops managers were paid on the grade of their shop which was made up of a formula which took into account slips and stakes. Now if one punter went missing and the shop went down a grade a manager could fight his corner for his pay not be dropped but had to know why and give a good argument to keep his shop the same grade. I had an example in one of my shops where they only took about 300 bets a day but one bloke backed in hundreds, all of the others were 5p round robin merchants. he went missing for about 6 months and the shops turnover went down about 70%, turned out he was a dealer and got sent down but the shop was put on hold for a year. Amazingly the profit was much higher in his absence which helped things.

[BillyHills]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester Erhaab have you ever complained to anyone about these many instances of fraud you have witnessed?

[NeilM]

Punters who can't work out their returns are the bane of my life. If you can't work it out or don't understand the bet, don't do it.

[Cons]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester If a bet has been 'cashed in', or even if you have lost your slip, be it a winner or a non-runner, you can write the bet out again and request that they manually search through the betting slips that they keep, as they are kept for a long period of time. Then they can pay you out on that basis if it hasnt yet been paid. In an instance where it has already been cashed in, the slip that you as the punter have wouldnt be in your hand at that time, as it ties up to your barcode and would have been put in the winning/non-runner slip pile.

[Aidymac]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

Erhaab have you ever complained to anyone about these many instances of fraud you have witnessed?

I wouldn't imagins so! Afterall it is Erhaab against the rest of the world, whinge whinge whinge! I was over-paid by nearly €300 once... Awful frauds them bookies, cheek of them to give me too much money.

[erhaab1965]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

I wouldn't imagins so! Afterall it is Erhaab against the rest of the world, whinge whinge whinge! I was over-paid by nearly €300 once... Awful frauds them bookies, cheek of them to give me too much money.

Over the years I have written many letters of complaints , all you get back is a "....sorry for your bad experience in one of our shops....blah blah blah..." Better to deal with the shop direct , if you say you are going to complain to customer services they ususally sh-t themselves and sort out your problems immediately. Getting over paid is as bad as getting short changed from a service point of view. I'd much rather get the correct amount than too much or too little.

[Gavlar17]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

Over the years I have written many letters of complaints , all you get back is a "....sorry for your bad experience in one of our shops....blah blah blah..." Better to deal with the shop direct , if you say you are going to complain to customer services they ususally sh-t themselves and sort out your problems immediately. Getting over paid is as bad as getting short changed from a service point of view. I'd much rather get the correct amount than too much or too little.

Call me cynical, but I'd much rather get overpaid! :lol