Ka4by Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday It's probably impossible to know because a lot of deals are done privately and the amount wouldn't be disclosed From what i can gather the most expensive at a public auction was 'The Green Monkey' who went for 16 million dollars at Keeneland in 2006, bought by John Magnier Never won a race......... nice one mate thanks for that...16 million dollars is alot of money esp if it doesnt win lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris34 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Noble Mission ran well but the winner looked special! Noble Mission a Group 1 horse? Probably not! Wanna take a bet on that?? Looked a really nice sort in paddock very very similar to Frankel, plenty of room for strengthening up and ran a great race away from the main part for most of it, also beating another very good looking sort in Frasers Hill and clearly well regarded I fully believe he will pick up a group 1 sooner rather than later! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris34 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Forgot to put these up, only taken on Iphone so sorry for not great quality; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Wanna take a bet on that?? Looked a really nice sort in paddock very very similar to Frankel' date=' plenty of room for strengthening up and ran a great race away from the main part for most of it, also beating another very good looking sort in Frasers Hill and clearly well regarded I fully believe he will pick up a group 1 sooner rather than later![/quote'] Sooner rather than later eh? Ok ill put my money where my mouth is! I will bet you £1,000 quid he doesnt win a Group 1 before 2013.. I will send the money to one of the moderators Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Can i have a little of that ? Seems a very good bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Can i have a little of that ? Seems a very good bet. Bring it on, the more money for me the better!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartd14 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday I'm with Aidy here. He may be Frankel's brother, but a 2nd in a Yarmouth maiden doesn't send me rushing to conclusions that he will win a Group 1. Even if he does mature, and develop once he turns 3. Could prove me wrong, but I'd like a lot more information first before I would be convinced he is anything other than half decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Was decent enough, he was very green but showed ability Godolphin horse looked excellent on the other hand, performance taken a backseat but it was classy. Time will obviously tell how good that maiden was. Sea Moon won it last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday I'm with Aidy here. He may be Frankel's brother, but a 2nd in a Yarmouth maiden doesn't send me rushing to conclusions that he will win a Group 1. Even if he does mature, and develop once he turns 3. Could prove me wrong, but I'd like a lot more information first before I would be convinced he is anything other than half decent. 2nd in a Class 5 maiden, destroyed by the Al-Zarooni horse... I would even really struggle to say the winner of the race would be capable of winning a Group 1, and it was mightily impressive! It may be Frankel's brother, but it is impossible that it can resemble Frankel in any way as Frankel is a complete freak of nature! Noble Mission has been reported to look a lot weaker in his hind quarters as when Frankel made his debut also. So they dont reckon it is as powerful as his brother. Bullet Train won this race before and the best Bullet Train has managed since is a Group 3 success at Lingfield. Sea Moon also won the race and he has only managed a Group 2! Noble Mission was soundly beaten in this race! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn up slip Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday What sort of time did the winner post? Looking at the picture of it in the parade ring, it looks like he's been starved for a a month prior to racing. As it gets older it may make up into a nice horse, group one who knows but you cant be too harsh on it at this point purely for the fact that he's clearly going to strenghten and grow massively over the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris34 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Time was: TIME 1m 42.30s (slow by 5.10s) Not bad time in conditions! Time will tell and yeah perhaps were all getting carried away just because he is Frankels brother some of us ready to back him no matter others ready to dismiss him no matter what, each to their opinion! Yarmouth maidens especially this time of year tend to be very strong as some of the big Newmarket based yards use them for a run as was clear today in the first 4 races today plenty of horses with fancy entries and costing a fortune! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Time was: TIME 1m 42.30s (slow by 5.10s) Not bad time in conditions! Time will tell and yeah perhaps were all getting carried away just because he is Frankels brother some of us ready to back him no matter others ready to dismiss him no matter what, each to their opinion! Yarmouth maidens especially this time of year tend to be very strong as some of the big Newmarket based yards use them for a run as was clear today in the first 4 races today plenty of horses with fancy entries and costing a fortune! I will have a friendly 100 quid with you mate! If that makes it an easier bet for you.. But i wont go lower than 50 :p One thing we have to keep in mind is pedigree;s dont win races, horses do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris34 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday I will have a friendly 100 quid with you mate! If that makes it an easier bet for you.. But i wont go lower than 50 :p One thing we have to keep in mind is pedigree;s dont win races, horses do! Friendly bets just arent that mate (rather back next time he runs) and also disallowed on the forum ;) rather just have an open and good debate! There was an interesting article in RP today about horses relations, like you say some live upto it others dont, but people buy horses on pedigree and pay a hell of a lot more for decent ones so there is obviousbly something in it ;)!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn up slip Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday 2nd in a Class 5 maiden, destroyed by the Al-Zarooni horse... I would even really struggle to say the winner of the race would be capable of winning a Group 1, and it was mightily impressive! It may be Frankel's brother, but it is impossible that it can resemble Frankel in any way as Frankel is a complete freak of nature! Noble Mission has been reported to look a lot weaker in his hind quarters as when Frankel made his debut also. So they dont reckon it is as powerful as his brother. Bullet Train won this race before and the best Bullet Train has managed since is a Group 3 success at Lingfield. Sea Moon also won the race and he has only managed a Group 2! Noble Mission was soundly beaten in this race! Whilst im inclined to agree with you, I dont think you should be so quick to poo poo the horses chances all together after just the one run. Plenty of horses have ran in worse races than that on debut and gone onto feed at the top table. As has been mentioned already, the race was stacked full of horses from prominent stables and the card itself had horses with all manner of fancy entries against their name. As I say, on balance of likelihood of it happening and not, you would have to err on the side of no, but you appear to be writing it's chances off all together which is particularly crass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Friendly bets just arent that mate (rather back next time he runs) and also disallowed on the forum ;) rather just have an open and good debate! There was an interesting article in RP today about horses relations, like you say some live upto it others dont, but people buy horses on pedigree and pay a hell of a lot more for decent ones so there is obviousbly something in it ;)!! Well why did you ask me to have a bet with you then? :spank:spank Im up for a debate!! What about the horse that was bought for 16 million? And didnt win a single race! :\ People go overboard on pedigree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Whilst im inclined to agree with you, I dont think you should be so quick to poo poo the horses chances all together after just the one run. Plenty of horses have ran in worse races than that on debut and gone onto feed at the top table. As has been mentioned already, the race was stacked full of horses from prominent stables and the card itself had horses with all manner of fancy entries against their name. As I say, on balance of likelihood of it happening and not, you would have to err on the side of no, but you appear to be writing it's chances off all together which is particularly crass. I am not writing its chances off at all mate! But the chances of it winning a Group 1 in 2012 would be very slim, i would imagine you would get very good odds on it to win a Group 1 actually, it was quoted 33/1 or 40/1 for one of the big races next year. As i said i am not writing off the chances of the horse, but the only singular thing that is supposedly in its favour is that it is Frankel's brother. Cecil did say it is a backward horse also which wouldnt be too inspiring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn up slip Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday I am not writing its chances off at all mate! But the chances of it winning a Group 1 in 2012 would be very slim, i would imagine you would get very good odds on it to win a Group 1 actually, it was quoted 33/1 or 40/1 for one of the big races next year. As i said i am not writing off the chances of the horse, but the only singular thing that is supposedly in its favour is that it is Frankel's brother. Cecil did say it is a backward horse also which wouldnt be too inspiring! Thing is though mate, the one singular thing that is in it's favour is what people are willing to pay many hundreds of thousands, and even millions of pounds for. I have to say I never actually saw the run due to being at work but the time is not the worse for the grade and by all accounts the winner was very impressive. The fact Cecil claims the horse to be backward and likely to come on for the run should surely give a pointer towards the likelihood of it coming on in leaps and bounds for the big races next year. As Walliams from Ladbrokes also points out, the middle distance division next season doesn't look too strong from what we've seen this year so that's yet anothe indicator of wether it may find a group one virtually set up for it next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Thing is though mate, the one singular thing that is in it's favour is what people are willing to pay many hundreds of thousands, and even millions of pounds for. I have to say I never actually saw the run due to being at work but the time is not the worse for the grade and by all accounts the winner was very impressive. The fact Cecil claims the horse to be backward and likely to come on for the run should surely give a pointer towards the likelihood of it coming on in leaps and bounds for the big races next year. As Walliams from Ladbrokes also points out, the middle distance division next season doesn't look too strong from what we've seen this year so that's yet anothe indicator of wether it may find a group one virtually set up for it next season. Thats a fair point! it will be very interesting to see how it fares on its next 2 runs, we will learn an awful lot from them runs¬ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris34 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Well why did you ask me to have a bet with you then? :spank:spank Im up for a debate!! What about the horse that was bought for 16 million? And didnt win a single race! :\ People go overboard on pedigree! Sorry was just speaking metaphorically, your right people do go overboard sometimes but more often than not it pays off otherwise it wouldnt keep happening would it? :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Sorry was just speaking metaphorically' date=' your right people do go overboard sometimes but more often than not it pays off otherwise it wouldnt keep happening would it? :unsure[/quote'] The very rich people of this world only buy the most expensive things available! As you notice its nearly always the people of the Arab world who are forking out the millions for horses as their pockets are endless.. How much did Frankel cost? Out of curiosity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileni4uk Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday I think you're looking at the wrong horse. He might be a full brother to Frankel, but won't be anything special. The most interesting hype horse is Born To Sea (half brother to Sea The Stars), who won a listed event with no fuss whatsoever fto. Mr. Oxx didn't want to overhype him so early in his career, but I saw in his eyes that he thinks quite a lot of him. Murtagh was excited as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris34 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday The very rich people of this world only buy the most expensive things available! As you notice its nearly always the people of the Arab world who are forking out the millions for horses as their pockets are endless.. How much did Frankel cost? Out of curiosity Bred by Juddmonte themselves same as Noble Mission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidymac Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday I think you're looking at the wrong horse. He might be a full brother to Frankel' date=' but won't be anything special. The most interesting hype horse is Born To Sea (half brother to Sea The Stars), who won a listed event with no fuss whatsoever fto. Mr. Oxx didn't want to overhype him so early in his career, but I saw in his eyes that he thinks quite a lot of him. Murtagh was excited as well.[/quote'] Agree there Born to Sea looks exciting! When a horse can win like that first time out and is related to Sea The Stars, you just know its going to be a good-un! Looking forward to seeing Middays sister is it, run on Thursday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bathtime For Rupert Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Born To Sea is definitely the one I'd be wanting to side with. Brushed a good field aside on debut over 6f. And will be better over further obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Born To Sea hopefully out at Leopardstown on Sunday again, possibly V Ballydoyle horse Apollo who I know they really like, they like him as much as Camelot. Maybe a bit less now though :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpo Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday I remember a Godolphin horse costing a ridiculous amount (possibly £5 million ish) and won absolutely nothing. It began with a J and may have won a group race but came nowhere near to winning a group 1. Also the winner of the Arc this year cost something like 8000 guineas. Very cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fintron Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Cecil did state before the race that he was backward and would come into his own over middle distances next year. It was a solid, if not spectacular debut if you ask me, he stalked the Highclere runner on the rail and travelled well, Tom never hit him with the stick and it was a gentle introduction as there was no need to butcher him when it became obvious the Godolphin chance had won. Its not an easy race to rate I suppose. Yarmouth isn't the best of tracks but plenty of big Newmarket yards were represented so it was clearly above average for the course. Two things to be cautious about 1) the winner made every yard. 2) the ground was soft. The first three home were all debutants so perhaps its best to rate the race around the 4th, Commitment, who raced on the stands rail infront of Noble Mission as it happens, and finished with a late rattle, probably bettering the effort of his Newmarket fourth to Encke on debut IMO. Thus, I''d rate the front four roughly as follows. Swedish Sailor 85 Noble Mission 73 Frasers Hill 73 Committment 72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Yarmouth maidens especially this time of year tend to be very strong as some of the big Newmarket based yards use them for a run as was clear today in the first 4 races today plenty of horses with fancy entries and costing a fortune! I recall in the late 90s getting a phonecall in regards to a David Loder trained 2 year old making his debut in this race over the mile at Yarmouth.I was told to lump on and it duly won by a mile. Prior to making his debut they changed his name from something like Yaazer to Dubai Millenium ! Only time will tell if Noble Mission reaches the same heights as Dubai Millenium but i think the race was selected with the historical value in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn up slip Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Agree there Born to Sea looks exciting! When a horse can win like that first time out and is related to Sea The Stars, you just know its going to be a good-un! Looking forward to seeing Middays sister is it, run on Thursday I think one of the key things to note when comparing the various pro's and con's of direct relatives of superstar horses is the sex of them. Namely female horses and their temperament, there are a whole host of issues that can go wrong with the colts at the beginning due to, well, we all know what. The fillies aren't going to have that issue and as such, are always likely to be safer to follow than a colt having it's first run possibly getting a sniff of the good stuff for the first time at a racecourse. How many times do you see the fella's wandering round the paddock with the old john thomas swinging about clearly not concentrating on what it's there for. Just because a colts sire acts well, doesn't always mean it's male off spring are certain to. Not something Jason Weaver is going to tell us either is it. "Errr yeah Boycie, Noble Mission is wandering round with his cock swinging like an elephants trunk, not the best of signs" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Re: Frankel's full-brother runs at Yarmouth on Tuesday Not something Jason Weaver is going to tell us either is it. "Errr yeah Boycie, Noble Mission is wandering round with his cock swinging like an elephants trunk, not the best of signs" They do tell us but they use the code words - 'acting coltish' :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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