I want horses to run their best every time.

[chris34]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time.

Never mind wanting horses to run to their best. I just had a hefty wallop on GO NANI GO and J Fahy was strolling at the back of the field but couldn't get a clear run (What does he expect in a 5f sprint at Lingfield) Flew at the death and just got beaten. I got 13.5 and it was backed in to 8.0 so even when they are trying other things can conspire against you. Fortunately I backed the day's good thing at Yarmouth ALJAMAAHEER and was lucky enough to get 13/8.

I am of the opinion this is the most pointless thread ever! Its all part of punting working out whether its that horses 'day' we all know what these trainers are like, we can all look over there history, we can all look at the breeding and therefore we can alll take it into account before betting! As for Go Nani Go I thought he got the ride the best he can he knew they were going too fast upfront and wasnt gonna go with them and it nearly paid off hes not an easy horse to ride thats clear from his appalling strike rate, often opens up around lingfield bend so not sure where you coming from saying thats a common thing at lingfield. And as for after eventing that is not allowed on the forum!

[Aidymac]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time.

Interesting that Cumani had the second in Petrol's race at 100/1, again ridden by a young claimer, maybe he got a right bollocking for not finishing out the back with his stable mate?? My point is that just because the number 1 jockey isnt used it doesnt mean they are not trying, how many second strings have we seen win this season, the most i can remember. Its impossible to work out so i just ignore it most of the time and if i'm not happy i avoid the race and stick it in the memory bank for another time:ok

Would it also be fair to say BH that trainers may put up so-called lesser jockeys to enhance a price? With Fallon on board for Cumani, i am sure it would be a lot smaller price than a lesser jockey on board...

[erhaab1965]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time.

Interesting that Cumani had the second in Petrol's race at 100/1, again ridden by a young claimer, maybe he got a right bollocking for not finishing out the back with his stable mate?? My point is that just because the number 1 jockey isnt used it doesnt mean they are not trying, how many second strings have we seen win this season, the most i can remember. Its impossible to work out so i just ignore it most of the time and if i'm not happy i avoid the race and stick it in the memory bank for another time:ok

Cumani's horse which came second is owned by L Marinopoulos.He is one of the richest owners in the world and the horse will probably be running on his merits with the view of breeding later.It is very unlikely the billionaire connections will be looking to land a gamble of any sort. Checking out the owner may be an indicator of whether a gamble is in the pipeline or not.For me I discount it if its owned by arabs , aristocracy or billionaires eg the Rothchilds , Godolphin , Oppenheimers , Queen ....etc. This theory can be applied to Sir M Prescotts horses. He is synonymous with running horses under wrong conditions early in their career to achieve low ratings.However this does not apply to the Kirsten Rausing horses in his yard.She is one of Britain's richest people and is in racing for the long term not to land a punt.About 10 yrs ago she part owned a horse which landed the Doncaster Cup and was subsequently very well handicapped for the Cesarewitch , Sir Mark Prescott obviously wanted to go for it but she over ruled it saying " we don't do handicaps". I too have noticed this season many second strings doing the business , a lot more than in previous years. As a general rule I stick with the first string but a few times like you say BH I have avoided having a bet

[erhaab1965]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time.

Would it also be fair to say BH that trainers may put up so-called lesser jockeys to enhance a price? With Fallon on board for Cumani' date=' i am sure it would be a lot smaller price than a lesser jockey on board...[/quote'] Not a consideration if it is owned by L Marinopoulos.

[erhaab1965]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time.

I am of the opinion this is the most pointless thread ever!

I have made a note of your point.

[Aidymac]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time.

Not a consideration if it is owned by L Marinopoulos.

Its grand and well the owner being a billionaire but the trainer has to make his money!!!

[erhaab1965]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time.

Its grand and well the owner being a billionaire but the trainer has to make his money!!!

Yes you make a point and I'm sure its applicable to the trainers at the bottom of the ladder who have a punt here and there to make things viable. I'm not sure whether Cumani needs to get a few quid on to make his money.They don't call him " filthy Luca " for nothing.

[Aidymac]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time.

Yes you make a point and I'm sure its applicable to the trainers at the bottom of the ladder who have a punt here and there to make things viable. I'm not sure whether Cumani needs to get a few quid on to make his money.They don't call him " filthy Luca " for nothing.

Well if thats the case why would he need to hold a horse up in a race and make sure it doesnt win, like you claim earlier?

[torn up slip]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time.

I think the answer to this lively debate should be that at the side of each runners name on the race card should be either N:O which means NOT OFF or T:T TRYING TODAY. I have also thought for many years that each horse should be "weighed" as it enters the parade ring ( Just walks over a weigh bridge thing?) so we can see if it is anywhere near it's racing weight or not. Of course this will never happen as this is another weapon in the armoury of the Trainer. He is the only one who knows if it is fit or not and like AIDYMAC has said it is his business after all.:)

Good idea in practice regarding the weighbridge thing. But how would you define it's racing weight? You're dealing with a half tonne of horse. A few kilo's here and there are going to be hard to argue over when discussing it's true racing weight.

[wwweeerrr]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time.

I am of the opinion this is the most pointless thread ever! Its all part of punting working out whether its that horses 'day' we all know what these trainers are like, we can all look over there history, we can all look at the breeding and therefore we can alll take it into account before betting! As for Go Nani Go I thought he got the ride the best he can he knew they were going too fast upfront and wasnt gonna go with them and it nearly paid off hes not an easy horse to ride thats clear from his appalling strike rate, often opens up around lingfield bend so not sure where you coming from saying thats a common thing at lingfield. And as for after eventing that is not allowed on the forum!

It's not a pointless thread my friend, as you say yourself, GO NANI GO has an "appalling strike rate" but only if it was trying and had conditions in its favour everytime it ran. Clearly it doesn't and neither does any horse try every time it runs and that is a fair view point for a thread. As for a field "opening up at Lingfield" I was actually talking about most sprint races as usually there is at least one horse who finds trouble and it takes a great amount of skill and judgement to ride a hold up horse in a sprint. This time I believe the jockey cocked up as he could have switched to the outside around the bend instead of moving to the inside. The horse was in front just after the line and would have won. But I have seen top quality jockeys like Fallon cock up. Look at his ride on RED DUKE at Goodwood on the 27th July and there were only 7 runners. I backed that one too! Sorry about the after eventing, mustn't break the "rules!!"

[Aidymac]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time. Prescott just had a 10/1 winner in a 4 runner race with an 8/13 FAV that "wasnt his"... :loon

[erhaab1965]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time.

Prescott just had a 10/1 winner in a 4 runner race with an 8/13 FAV that "wasnt his"... :loon

The winner was owned by Sheikh Fahad probably as rich as K Rausing a fellow big owner in Prescott's.Same theory applies , his horses won't be made to underperform.

[erhaab1965]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time.

Whenever punters back a horse they want their horse to put in maximum effort each time. We would all be happier if we believed that to be the case even if we didn't get a return. One aspect of horseracing which annoys me is when horses aren't run on merit.I pointed out a few days ago a horse called True to Form a multiple winning horse for Sir M Prescott when transfered to G Baker he campaigned it over the wrong trip with A Culhane aboard till it reached a favorable handicap mark when the money was down and it does the business. Another trainer who likes to use A Culhane is D Flood who in the past had his training liscence revoked for administering banned substances to his horses.He employs similar tactics. Take his horse Dazakhee , all his win are at 1m yet straight after a win the horse is upped to 1m 4f to bring his handicap rating back down. Today there is a horse in the 250 Yarmouth called Petrol owned and trained by L Cumani.As we all know K Fallon is the stable jockey and he is in contention for the jockey championship.His two rivals are present at Yarmouth as well as Fallon himself.Yet T Hussain (7lb) is booked to ride. It is my belief that the trainer does not want the horse to put in a good performance.Putting Fallon aboard would mean the horse may finish in a superior position than expected.His dam is Pongee who for those who recall started off over inadequate trips as a 2YO before ending up as a group performer over middle distances.Cumani also owned Pongee too , so I expect to see another two poor performances over the wrong conditions before a spate of wins next year. This tactic is widely employed by trainers who include Prescott , Dunlop and Akehurst year after year. I know the onus is on punters when they put their money on but there will be a few punters up and down the country who will have a quid or two on with absoloutely no chance of getting a return. I may be wrong and have totally misread the situation.What do you think?

I flagged this horse a couple of years ago as a horse intended to be used for punting purposes and handbraked for its first 3 runs. Its been well beat on each run and this is its 4th run tonight at Wolverhampton tonight , Im astonished its 3/1 fav !!!! Please note I high lighted this horse even before it made its debut , I may have got it wrong , my dough is down I hope I was right.

[BillyHills]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time. Good luck:ok

[mowgli77]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time.

I flagged this horse a couple of years ago as a horse intended to be used for punting purposes and handbraked for its first 3 runs. Its been well beat on each run and this is its 4th run tonight at Wolverhampton tonight , Im astonished its 3/1 fav !!!! Please note I high lighted this horse even before it made its debut , I may have got it wrong , my dough is down I hope I was right.

Won by 1 1/4 lengths, plenty of petrol in the tank tonight. It's now trained by O'Meara and was ridden by Tudhope. SP was 7-2, reportedly opened 5-1 and touched 7-1. Well done Erhaab. :ok

[Tedthewolf]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time. Great call Erhaab hope you had plenty on pal :clap

[erhaab1965]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time. A lot of you out there see me as a nutter, who likes to moan and cry when results go against me. I can see why you think that based my posts. I'm Revisiting this thread after Petrol Has won on his 4th start just as I predicted exactly even before its debut. I'm not really boasting about backing a winner but want to debate the fact fraudulent practices were used with the handling of the horse in its early days. As I suggested it would be well beat on its first 3 runs before winning on its 4th run. Question, did the horse run to its best on its first 3 runs? Was it run to decieve the handicapper /punters? Afterall it was given an OR of 47!!! The chances are that it is much better than its current rating. We all know this goes on but is it acceptable if punters are putting their money on runners which have absolutely no chance despite whatever odds they may be. From time to time I read news from other nations and I get the impression that in eastern countries not running to merit is unacceptable and punters vent their anger publicly. Hope some of you take time to contribute to this discussion, looking back there have been some interesting points made.

[markmywords]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time. Erhaab I backed the horse after you pointed out you was expecting a big run from a low mark. But went in again after reading on racing post it has been gelded since last run hence the break. I think the fact it has been gelded since last run needs to be acknowledged.

[BillyHills]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time. Erhaab mate, its a great debate but i really dont see the point in arguing over something that has no answer. Have you seen (and i'm sure you have) some these 25 runner Irish Maiden hurdles, half of them are out the back after one hurdle. Perfect example toady at Doncaster, Broctune Pap Gio, a miler on the flat, three hurdles runs nowhere near catching the judges eye, today runs in a handicap on his 4th outing, races prominent and wins going away. My point is that it happens all the time in one way or another, i know two wrongs dont make a right but it will never change and for eagle eyed people like yourself that should be good news so you can back them. well done on your winner today, your first ever tip!! :clap Good point about being gelded too Mark, improves some horses no end:ok

[Aidymac]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time. Well done Erhaab, your only 99% insane now after this tip. :clap Hope you won a fortune.

[The Saint]

I've not read the thread as yet Erhaab but certainly will be. Will probably be related but for various reasons I've not had a bet until the off for a few weeks now. That kind of makes me redundant as far as BBOTD and offering up tips on PL goes but I want every single clue the market offers at the moment. The difference between positively backed horses and drifters is staggering and I'd venture as informative as its ever been. As I've said in other threads - it's corrupt and it's never gonna change under the current regime. Just as u have with Petrol, gotta find a way of making that info pay! Well Done m8 - cracking to see.

[chris34]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time. Well done Erhaab well spotted my problem with it all is the Authority have the power to stamp it out and yet dont, the steward enwuiry after Petrols run reads;

8.40, seventh race The Stewards held an enquiry to consider the apparent improvement in form of the winner, PETROL, ridden by Daniel Tudhope and trained by David O’Meara, which had never previously been placed. They interviewed the trainer who stated that the gelding benefitted from being dropped in class. Having heard his evidence they forwarded his explanation to the British Horseracing Authority so that the previous performances of PETROL could be reviewed.

Are the stewards thick or something, reason given drop in class?? In ran in a seller last time out you cant get any lower yet today in a handicap, how can they be satisfied with that answer?? They say its been forwarded to BHA to review previous runs we all know thats it job done for me personally just leaves a sour taste when this one is so obvious, poor excuses. I can understand ground, tack, trips etc. as excuses but drop in grade when it hasnt even been dropped in grade does sour me!

[mowgli77]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time. If a trainer is plotting a handicap target his horses are never going to run to their best because a handicapper will quickly become exposed. Jockeys are told to just do enough to get over the line and trainer and jockey always try to withhold just how much the horse has in hand in order to go in again when only raised a few pounds rather than a stone. Was it Prescott who used to go 6f,6f,7f horse does nothing, low handicap mark and over 1m2f bolts in, explanation for improvement, step up in trip?

[erhaab1965]

Re: I want horses to run their best every time. Not recommending a bet for tonight but I expect a continuation of his winning streak later this evening.