heniek31 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! Poker sites aren't rigged its simply a question of maths. When you play live you average about 1/3 of the number of hands you will see playing online. Also people make more calls as they can just sign up for another tourney within a few minutes. However if you get knocked out in a live casino game then thats it for the night so you fold hands you might jave called online. So the combination of more hands and more calls equals more beats that still happen live but the cards responsible were already folded. How many times have you heard someone say at a live event I nearly called there but folded and flopped the straight against ur AA. Even if they were rigged you wouldnt know because it would just average out over time. This is the smartest post in this tread :clap:clap:clap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgc100969 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! This is the smartest post in this tread :clap:clap:clap. Cheers mate:cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! Poker sites aren't rigged its simply a question of maths. When you play live you average about 1/3 of the number of hands you will see playing online. Also people make more calls as they can just sign up for another tourney within a few minutes. However if you get knocked out in a live casino game then thats it for the night so you fold hands you might jave called online. So the combination of more hands and more calls equals more beats that still happen live but the cards responsible were already folded. How many times have you heard someone say at a live event I nearly called there but folded and flopped the straight against ur AA. Even if they were rigged you wouldnt know because it would just average out over time. Personally, I think it is very naive to believe that there is no truth at all in the claims that sites are rigged! Ultimate Bet/Absolute Poker is a prime example.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgc100969 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! Personally, I think it is very naive to believe that there is no truth at all in the claims that sites are rigged! Ultimate Bet/Absolute Poker is a prime example.... Rigged to do wot??? If u think its personal against u then see ur GP If not then the rigged hands will average out for you over time so dont worry bout it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! Personally, I think it is very naive to believe that there is no truth at all in the claims that sites are rigged! Ultimate Bet/Absolute Poker is a prime example.... The UB/AP thing is a bit different. As I understand it, somebody built something into the software that allowed the bad guys to intercept and read the hands of their opponents. I'm no expert, but I would guess that that part of the software, dealing with the transmission of information between the server and individual players' computers, hasn't changed much since they got it working. But sites like PokerStars keep introducing new games, and from what I know of how computer programmers work, they won't write the dealing part of the program from scratch; they'll take the existing dealing program, fiddle about, and re-use parts of it. That part of the code would be frequently studied, and unless all of PokerStars' programmers are in on the conspiracy, it just seems extremely unlikely to me that nobody would notice a "fix": certainly something like a fix to produce more "action" hands, or to river you more, which would be quite complicated to program. There have been cases of people deliberately adulterating food. Is it "very naive" of me to believe that the people who run the shop across the road don't put LSD in their pork pies? No. Of course, it's possible that they do, but I don't believe they do because I have absolutely no evidence that they do (although, on reflection, their pork pies do taste a bit odd :unsure). And that's what's missing with the claims of poker sites being "fixed": evidence. I don't think it's impossible, but on the other hand nobody has given me convincing evidence that it's true. There are plenty of geeks in the online poker community with statistical expertise and far too much time on their hands. And that's how UB/AP got caught: people did statistical tests and found convincing anomalies. Where are the people who've done statistical tests on PokerStars' rivers and found convincing anomalies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgc100969 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! The UB/AP thing is a bit different. As I understand it, somebody built something into the software that allowed the bad guys to intercept and read the hands of their opponents. I'm no expert, but I would guess that that part of the software, dealing with the transmission of information between the server and individual players' computers, hasn't changed much since they got it working. But sites like PokerStars keep introducing new games, and from what I know of how computer programmers work, they won't write the dealing part of the program from scratch; they'll take the existing dealing program, fiddle about, and re-use parts of it. That part of the code would be frequently studied, and unless all of PokerStars' programmers are in on the conspiracy, it just seems extremely unlikely to me that nobody would notice a "fix": certainly something like a fix to produce more "action" hands, or to river you more, which would be quite complicated to program. There have been cases of people deliberately adulterating food. Is it "very naive" of me to believe that the people who run the shop across the road don't put LSD in their pork pies? No. Of course, it's possible that they do, but I don't believe they do because I have absolutely no evidence that they do (although, on reflection, their pork pies do taste a bit odd :unsure). And that's what's missing with the claims of poker sites being "fixed": evidence. I don't think it's impossible, but on the other hand nobody has given me convincing evidence that it's true. There are plenty of geeks in the online poker community with statistical expertise and far too much time on their hands. And that's how UB/AP got caught: people did statistical tests and found convincing anomalies. Where are the people who've done statistical tests on PokerStars' rivers and found convincing anomalies? These tests are now done independently and in house to ensure the integrity of the sites. Sites like pokerstars make so much already that the risk of being caught out rigging is a gamble they dont need to make. The fact they make millions everyday doing it right then whats the point of risking everything to gain very little. They rely on probability and statistics to make their money and the bad beats are part of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgc100969 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! Some players only play premium hands and get upset when they dont win everytime. Well thats poker guys they dont!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heniek31 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! I know what you are saying Gaz about getting inside the system and cheat, but when it comes to nasty beats, its utter bollocks. 2-3 years ago, I 100% believed all poker sites are rigged and no explanation would change my mind. And then I started playing live. I was in total shock, but very positive one. The amount of bad bad beats in live games I saw put me in right place (just ask Uber about his last hand in live game at Barries ;)). I remember one Virgin festival and Tikkay running around tables when all in was announced at the table. At the beginning, first 3 times, aces were cracked each time. At Irish festival in Dublin, on the bubble (€2.7k) aces were cracked by Q7o. How painful is that? We all remember bad beats, but never suck outs and thats the biggest problem of every poker player who thinks all is rigged. I have accepted all now and treat as a part of the game. Believe what you want :ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! There are plenty of geeks in the online poker community with statistical expertise and far too much time on their hands. And that's how UB/AP got caught: people did statistical tests and found convincing anomalies. Where are the people who've done statistical tests on PokerStars' rivers and found convincing anomalies? Whilst not disagreeing with you, and not really wanting to undermine your argument, Weren't UB ultimately caught because one of their CS staff accidentally sent a file with the full hand history? Without that, the investigation wouldnt have started with such vigour and evidence wouldn't have come to light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! If u think its personal against u then see ur GP If not then the rigged hands will average out for you over time so dont worry bout it thanks tom, i may see my gp then :unsure:loon I've played poker long enough now to understand and accept any beats I get, however, on stars I see far too many beats for it to be believable, not just beats to me but to other players. I've played on a variety of sites and have had no suspicions of them, however stars is different. Having said that, others have said they think IPN (Virgin etc...) are worse than stars, however, I play a lot on there and trust it 100% so maybe its just a personal viewpoint? :unsure I'm not of the strong opinion that online poker is 'fixed' but I have my suspicions due to beats I see sometimes and what others have said, and the UB/AP thing made me more aware that it is possible! As I personally think stars is a bit dodgy I simply don't play there now! :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgc100969 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! Whilst not disagreeing with you' date=' and not really wanting to undermine your argument, Weren't UB ultimately caught because one of their CS staff accidentally sent a file with the full hand history? Without that, the investigation wouldnt have started with such vigour and evidence wouldn't have come to light.[/quote'] That scandal was different they were allowing players to see ur hole cards. There has never been a scandal regarding the bad beats Gaz alludes to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! That scandal was different they were allowing players to see ur hole cards. There has never been a scandal regarding the bad beats Gaz alludes to. So if a site allows someone to see everyone elses hole cards then doesn't it make you wonder what else the sites can do? :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgc100969 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! thanks tom, i may see my gp then :unsure:loon I've played poker long enough now to understand and accept any beats I get, however, on stars I see far too many beats for it to be believable, not just beats to me but to other players. I've played on a variety of sites and have had no suspicions of them, however stars is different. Having said that, others have said they think IPN (Virgin etc...) are worse than stars, however, I play a lot on there and trust it 100% so maybe its just a personal viewpoint? :unsure I'm not of the strong opinion that online poker is 'fixed' but I have my suspicions due to beats I see sometimes and what others have said, and the UB/AP thing made me more aware that it is possible! As I personally think stars is a bit dodgy I simply don't play there now! :ok LOL Thats best thing just dont play on there. We all have bad runs and streaks too. e.g. last night i had 7 pocket pairs off the trot beaten by an ace that was the 1st card out e.g. last year i won 10000$ guaranteed on paddypoker 3 times in a week with over 1000 runners each time... never made final table since Thats poker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgc100969 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! Even live I could say Aspers is rigged because I have never cashed there despite playing loads of times there. However I have won several times at Stanleys including a treble last year Sunday, Thursday, Sunday. Although I have only won once at Grosvenor I have cashed many times. Worst beat ever was in 100£ game at Aspers on the bubble. I call a raise from the bb with 44 Flop comes q44 he bets i call then q on turn he moves all in and i call only for q on river to give him quad queens with his aq. Online that would be fixed but it was in the casino by the way at the time he was chip leader and i was second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! Whilst not disagreeing with you' date=' and not really wanting to undermine your argument, Weren't UB ultimately caught because one of their CS staff [b']accidentally sent a file with the full hand history? Without that, the investigation wouldnt have started with such vigour and evidence wouldn't have come to light. My memory's a bit hazy, but didn't that happen after people had come up with fairly convincing evidence that something was amiss? Granted, it certainly made it a lot harder for UB to deny that there was anything wrong. Also, "accidentally"? I have my doubts. And that's one of my problems with conspiracy theories that require a lot of people to keep quiet. When I was about 10 years old, the most powerful man in the world failed to get away with a conspiracy to carry out a burglary because a man named after a porn movie didn't keep quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! Even live I could say Aspers is rigged because I have never cashed there despite playing loads of times there. However I have won several times at Stanleys including a treble last year Sunday, Thursday, Sunday. Although I have only won once at Grosvenor I have cashed many times. Worst beat ever was in 100£ game at Aspers on the bubble. I call a raise from the bb with 44 Flop comes q44 he bets i call then q on turn he moves all in and i call only for q on river to give him quad queens with his aq. Online that would be fixed but it was in the casino by the way at the time he was chip leader and i was second. can this post get moved to the 'bad beat, have a moan' thread :eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! This is the smartest post in this tread :clap:clap:clap. And that was the dumbest:clap:clap:clap I really cant belive that there are so many people on here stupid enough to belive that were such a large amount of money is involved coruption is not a possibility. Sorry looking back its only actually tgc that thinks that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisa Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! that's exactly why they would 'rig' their site! The more players a company has, the more rake and fees they receive. If the site gives players an equal amount of luck then they are going to hold on to these players and hence more rake and fees! ;) Disagree as I think its interesting to actually see how many people think sites are rigged. The fact that this has had such a big response suggests that there has to be some mileage in claims that sites are rigged? :unsure If you genuinely think it's rigged, well, you're the idiot then aren't you for continually playing on a "rigged" site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! If you genuinely think it's rigged' date=' well, you're the idiot then aren't you for continually playing on a "rigged" site.[/quote'] I think you should read all posts.. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazdiamonds Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! i don't think anyone has accused any site of being rigged. its just interesting to see other peoples opinions. anyway i LOVE stars now after hitting quads 4 hands out of 23;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! That's the way to do it! :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconni Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! Just found this wonderful snippet of information on the 'Poker Stars Cracked site (http://www.pokerstarscracked.com/) http://www.pokerstarscracked.com/sitebuilder/images/psc.html-13.png Obviously it has relevance to all that's been said here and does you make one think, eh? Good flops/luck :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodie Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! I have a notepad with 54 hands this week all bad beats from my games. ZZZZZZZZZZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Re: Why I Hate Stars!!! Proof that it's fixed: My daughter dealing...me and my son heads up in STT. Both all-in. My 77 vs his QQ AK92... I'm on my feet...''777777777'' ...and the 7 comes on the river. Sick of these bloody fixed home games...it's all bloody fixed isn't it. that was a few days ago and this afternoon I commented that I'll remember that hand forever. Now to the rather obvious point... We actually played three STTs, with probably about twenty or so hands in each...so maybe 70 in total...but none of us can recall one other hand...only the ''bad beat''. So it is online. You may play hundreds of hands a day, but you only remember the dodgy looking ones...thus giving you the impression, falsely of course, that these happen too often to be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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