BAM Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Whilst on holiday I was catching up on the magazine back catalogue and I was incensed to read the piece on Daniel Negraneu in last months Pokerplayer. Where do these so called pro's get off at slagging off us so called amateurs? He wants to change the main event to a shootout format to limit the risk of "chips that one of these donkeys can win off other donkeys". He says its too easy to get to eight million in chips without ever coming up against a pro. I am sick of hearing these pro's bleating about how hard done they are in the main event. They hark on about back in the day when it was all pro's at the final table (and probably more important to them there was only 20 runners). Have people like Negreanu not realised the link between us donkeys and the poker boom and without us he would still be turning tricks behind Vancouver bus station. Has he also not realised that our hard earnt rake on Pokerstars goes towards keeping him cheap hockey shirts. Most of the people in the main event have qualified or have bought in direct they could keep the money but no they decide to sit down and take their chance with $10K of their own money. They have earnt their right to be their more than he has and they have also earnt the right to play their cards in any way they choose. What gives him the right to call and belittle the very players that are upholding this game. Why turn the greatest MTT event of the year into a SnG championship???? He goes on to state that amateurs are dumbing down the game and we are changing it from a sophisticated game into a game of bingo and he is worried about the prestige of the game. PRESTIGE !! :@ PRESTIGE!! is this the same guy who gambling millions on Wii bowling and tennis and millions on a golf shot - thats what I call fckin dumb. The best of it all he has a go at Annette 15 for disrespecting the old pro's :lol I have written to Pokerstars to tell them I am withdrawing my roll as none of my money is going to that clown. From now on I will only be playing freerolls or large value tourneys on Pokerstars. It will not make a difference to Stars I'm a small fish but it will make me feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu Fair enough. I read the interview and agreed with a lot of it, the main event is a complete lottery. Making the first days play a shootout would go a massive way to changing this. Every one starts day two with the same ammount of chips in what is then basically a $100,000 buy in event The real answer is to increase the buy in tenfold and this does it without excluding the "little guy" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu I don't really like the guy, but I guess there is an arguement for raising the buyin at the main event from $10k, I have no idea how long it's been there, but it's as long as I can remember.He seems to be complaining that good players can't beat bad ones, must be one of the great urban myths of poker. If that is the case, I wonder how he'd explain Phil Helmuths 11 bracelets ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu It's been $10,000 since 1972.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu I think he's pissed off too at the new breed of Poker Player, the Annette's and the Tabatabai's who have no fear at all. It may appear that they these kids play like donks at times but the pro's have gotten away with playing ABC poker for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu I wonder how he'd explain Phil Helmuths 11 bracelets ?? I think He's on record as saying that Helmuth is very good at getting chips of bad players. Every one wants to knock Helmuth out which plays to his strengths. GaF's reading up on Helmuth as we speak for the be the bounty tourney on 32 Red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu I wrote a letter to Poker Player, saying that basically the blokes an arse -(Don't think it will get published though :lol) Although must admit that full marks should go to the interviewer who let him make himself sound like an arse with some nice leading questions.:clap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hedonist Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu Have people like Negreanu not realised the link between us donkeys and the poker boom and without us he would still be turning tricks behind Vancouver bus station. Funniest thing I've read in a very long while! :lol:lol:lol (Also utterly libelous!):loon Most of the people in the main event have qualified or have bought in direct they could keep the money but no they decide to sit down and take their chance with $10K of their own money. They have earnt their right to be their more than he has and they have also earnt the right to play their cards in any way they choose. What gives him the right to call and belittle the very players that are upholding this game. Why turn the greatest MTT event of the year into a SnG championship???? Very good point! The WSOP ME is a tournie, and just like any other tournie you need a bit of luck to get deep. There's absolutely no reason why any of the "best 50 players on earth" should make the final table, year on year against a field of 8000+. Shirley, the Main Event is already a sideshow for the amateurs/qualifiers. The real prize is the H.O.R.S.E. event?!? The real answer is to increase the buy in tenfold and this does it without excluding the "little guy" I think a $100,000 buy in would pretty much exclude the "little guy". But I'd like to raise the point of why the WSOPE ME cost twice as much as the WSOP ME. That seems facking scandalous - especially as the prize pool was so much smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu I think a $100,000 buy in would pretty much exclude the "little guy". But I'd like to raise the point of why the WSOPE ME cost twice as much as the WSOP ME. That seems facking scandalous - especially as the prize pool was so much smaller. Less TV revenue mate, ESPN are paying a fortune for the rights to show the WSOP, that translates into prize money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football-Tipper Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu Isnt it just the buy-ins that translate to prize money and nothing else or I have miss understood AJ? Sorry its still early if I have :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu You may be right, I dunno. I assumed the whole income from the event, inc a proportion of TV money would be used to fund prizes, liek any other sport. There is a large proability I'm totally wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu It isn't just him though, is it? I'm pretty sure that Paul Jackson was saying almost the same thing about us amateurs and it doesn't stop there. The number of times you watch poker shows and the commentator's lambast the internet rookie/qualifier for making a dumb play with something like Ad8d which is fair enough (who the hell plays that anyway?) but some time later a pro will make a similar play and its 'inspired' and 'brilliant'. Wasn't Negreanu the guy who got quite a lot of publicity from offering one of us chumps the chance to live his lifestyle through his failed poker site? Heaven help 'em when Mole gets up to their level and points out that all that he has achieved comes from one £50 deposit.:lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB80 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu You may be right, I dunno. I assumed the whole income from the event, inc a proportion of TV money would be used to fund prizes, liek any other sport. There is a large proability I'm totally wrong. The TV money/sponsorship etc all goes into Harrah's dirty mits. Only the buy in's (minus the cut Harrah's take of course!) is the prize money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPlayerDave Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu I wrote a letter to Poker Player' date=' saying that basically the blokes an arse -(Don't think it will get published though :lol) [/quote'] I'm really glad the interview's stirred up some controversy. And feelings in the office are much the same as on here - mixed. As for not publishing the letter, I'm not sure if it's yours or not, but someone wrote one about the article and it's next month's star letter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu I think a $100,000 buy in would pretty much exclude the "little guy". But I'd like to raise the point of why the WSOPE ME cost twice as much as the WSOP ME. That seems facking scandalous - especially as the prize pool was so much smaller. The prize pool was so much smaller because the number of players was a lot smaller. I don't see anything particularly scandalous in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu I'm really glad the interview's stirred up some controversy. And feelings in the office are much the same as on here - mixed. As for not publishing the letter, I'm not sure if it's yours or not, but someone wrote one about the article and it's next month's star letter. Ah well I wrote to PokerPlayer as well :lol So we'll have to open a book now to see who has won...slap what odds are you giving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULM03 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu I read somnething on this ages back in an interview with some pro whose name I forget. His solution was to make the main event pot limit, arguing that you generally have to be a good player post-flop to get anywhere in pot limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football-Tipper Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu It isn't just him though, is it? I'm pretty sure that Paul Jackson was saying almost the same thing about us amateurs and it doesn't stop there. The number of times you watch poker shows and the commentator's lambast the internet rookie/qualifier for making a dumb play with something like Ad8d which is fair enough (who the hell plays that anyway?) but some time later a pro will make a similar play and its 'inspired' and 'brilliant'. Wasn't Negreanu the guy who got quite a lot of publicity from offering one of us chumps the chance to live his lifestyle through his failed poker site? Heaven help 'em when Mole gets up to their level and points out that all that he has achieved comes from one £50 deposit.:lol Dont worry Mr V I got it :lol:lol:lol:lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu Less TV revenue mate' date=' ESPN are paying a fortune for the rights to show the WSOP, that translates into prize money[/quote'] No TV Money - indeed I think a number of Pro's boycott WSOP because they view the juice as a scandal.....prizes are purely total buy ins minus the juice - IIRC it's about 6% - so Harah's raking it in, even without any sponsorship/TV money - think there's an expectation for prize winners to tip the dealers prize pool too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hedonist Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu The prize pool was so much smaller because the number of players was a lot smaller. I don't see anything particularly scandalous in that. Fair point, I over egged the pudding a bit. However I still don't see the justification for a £10,000 buy-in, when the real deal is only $10,000. On a secondary note, wasn't Negreanu whingeing this year about the way the levels were run in the main event, even though he sat on the body that arranged how the levels were organised. Doh! Also, if you see how he exited the WSOP ME this year... well, its no bloody surprise he can't win it! :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu I just got around to reading the interview, and to be honest I almost thought I must be reading a different article from everybody else. I'm not a big fan of Negreanu (not for any concrete reason, but he always comes across to me as a bit false in some indefinable way that slightly irritates me), and I didn't agree with everything he said in the interview, but I don't think he said anything that was particularly out of line. [On the other hand, I think I remember the article by Paul Jackson that Mr V referred to, and that was an embarrassing load of whinging.] Of course, he's right that the WSOP Main Event as it is now is no way to decide the "best player"; that's almost self-evident. If a pro can't say that without being accused of being offensive to "amateurs", that's just Political Correctness Gone Mad.* Where I part company with Negreanu is that I don't think that really matters. I don't think anybody who knows anything about poker really thinks that winning the Main Event means you're the "best player" or anywhere close, and I think that it's good for poker in publicity terms to have a high profile event where unknown players win seriously life-changing amounts of money. But (and here I agree with Negreanu) I think that there's room to introduce some more higher buy-in events. * Me accusing Brian of being PC. :loon Who'd have thought it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu * Me accusing Brian of being PC. :loon Who'd have thought it? Stop being stupid baldy :lol I personally think that in the past few years the main event final table has thrown up some complete unknown amateurs who have gone on to become established pro's - David Williams, Greg Raymer, Joe Hatchem, Aaron Kanter, Paul Wasika, Mike Binger, even Jamie Gold has gone on to prove himself in HSP. Last year's FT had established pro's such as Phil Hilm, Lee Watkinson, Rain Khan, Alex Kravchenko and the not so established pro's like Skalie and Lee Childs. It is only because they don't play in the big game or they are not in the Negreanu clique they seem to be labeled as donkeys. It was only the final two that let it down and since then Tuan Lam has been signed up by pokerstars. Making big tournies a shootout to clip the wings of the donks will not always work just look at Rajesh Modah. The ME is an open circus for everyone to have a shot at lets just keep it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu Ah well I wrote to PokerPlayer as well :lol So we'll have to open a book now to see who has won...slap what odds are you giving? GUKPT Qualifier Winner .... Ha ! ... Fooking - WPT (chipset) Winner - Read it and weep :tongue2 HI Martyn, Congratulations! You won the star letter this month .................... I’ll get the WPT chipset sent out to you. Regards, Rick Dacey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu GUKPT Qualifier Winner .... Ha ! ... Fooking - WPT (chipset) Winner - Read it and weep :tongue2 HI Martyn, Congratulations! You won the star letter this month .................... I’ll get the WPT chipset sent out to you. Regards, Rick Dacey fooking plagiarism I bet :dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Re: I'm really beginning to dislike Negreanu Just got this months Poker Player. Top letter Martyn. Very funny.:lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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