PAULM03 Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Played this on SO earlier today. Dealt QQ on the button Raise 4xBB All fold except BB, who calls Flop is: J J 2 BB bets 300. Do I call, raise or fold? I'm very slightly slightly short stacked, after his bet of 300 I have 1195, he has 970. Blinds are 50/100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Raise, you have an overpair, plus a 40% chance of a full house. If he had a top pair like AA or KK he'd have raised pre flop, not just called. The concern is he has 3 of a kind. but I don't see it, I put him on a pair of tens, I think you have him. he's full of sh!t imho, take him out, agressive raise 600 or 700 chips should do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAC Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? He's holding 72os. I hope you folded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Was it a rainbow flop or were there real flush possibilites? I certainly wouldn't fold, maybe a small raise or just a call, but it would have been a shame to go out to J 10s or AJo. If the villain bet into the flop on the turn I'd certainly be looking at laying the hand down. (Whether I could or not is a different matter...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daftpegasus Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? If you were to raise then he is either going to fold or go all in. The big question in my mind would be "would I be happy going all in with my hand?". Generally I would say yes although you have to be worried about him holding a jack (or pair of 2's). I think I would raise and see what he did. The other things that should affect your judgement are what type of game he's played so far. Has he paid to see most flops, or rarely played a hand yet? Has he generally been agressive or tight? Let us know what you did and the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULM03 Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Flop was rainbow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Played this on SO earlier today. Dealt QQ on the button Raise 4xBB All fold except BB, who calls Flop is: J J 2 BB bets 300. Do I call, raise or fold? I'm very slightly slightly short stacked, after his bet of 300 I have 1195, he has 970. Blinds are 50/100 With a pot of 1150 (400 raise + 400 call + 50 SB + 300 bet) I'm going all in here. You can't call/raise as you'll be pot committed whatever happens, might as well see all 5 cards if you get called. I put him on either a lower pair or something like AK. Of course he could also be holding AJ, KJ which is possible, but I think he would have gone all in on the flop if he had a jack. Double up time, I'm sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULM03 Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Yeah, flat call was pretty much out of the question. At this stage of the game it was all-in or nothing. I chose nothing, mainly because he'd been reasonably loose. So the possibility of 10 J, J Q, K J, A J and even 9 J was at the forefront of my mind. In addition his 300 bet screamed 'pot juicer', if he had nothing at all he would have just checked that flop IMO. By folding I'm leaving myself with 10BB and a reasonable chance of picking up another hand before the screw really turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Puntalot Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Decent raise called for there Paul imo, if he has anything you'll know shortly after, but I would find it hard to put that down. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Puntalot Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? if he had nothing at all he would have just checked that flop IMO. Disagree - You find that when a pair flops, the first to bet nearly always takes the pot down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpurMan Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? IMO, Raise all-in. You have him covered, so although you would be crippled you aren't out, although you would be down to 2xBB If he has the J or a pair of 2s, you still have plenty of outs. If he has a J, a Q wins it, if he has a pair of ducks J or Q wins it. You said he had been pretty loose, so I think PR is right in so far as he is probably trying to win the pot with the scary flop. Double up time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedonist Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? I'd put him on a pair lower than yours. His bet of 300 is the type of bet I'd make if I held a pair. I'd go all in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Well............................ assuming this was a stt????? ...in a stt: Definite FOLD(seems I am the only one with that opinion).... No need to call that big a raise without KNOWING you have the nuts... ... the main thing in a stt: SURVIVAL untill the money...!!! That works!!!! How much were the blinds??? You raised 4x BB??? was that 120?? 200?? What...??? Anyway... folding leaves you with 1195, which is plenty of chips.... Different thing in a multi... I think... you will HAVE to take some chances to get in the money... therefore: ALL IN... right away... Just my point of view.... and way of playing stt's and mtt's :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULM03 Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Posted the blinds, 50/100 :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Posted the blinds' date=' 50/100 :)[/quote'] So you raised 400 preflop???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpurMan Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Pene makes a valid point. Was this an STT or an MTT?. I for one assumed an MTT. I might possibly play it differently in an STT, depending on players to the money (e.g 4 left, 3 paid). First instinct would still be all in though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? plus a 40% chance of a full house. Having just "argued" with Paul in another thread - it's your turn now fools - I must be in an argumentative mood :lol :lol I've chucked it into a calculator and come up with a 16% chance of a FH. However,as the FH is as mitigation against him having trip Jacks, the chance is actually less than that - he holds one of the 4 cards that make you a FH (a J), the other J makes him Quads, so your FH is worthless. The only FH of benefit to you is from one of the 2 remaining Q. If he holds a J you only have 2 outs (and a few runner runner outs). Overall if he has a Jack, then you are less than 10% to beat him (I think!!!!)....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULM03 Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? So you raised 400 preflop???? Yep.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Yep.:) Okay... then no need to waste another 300 on QQ... NOT always a winning hand ;) ...although I have heard that 2 ladies are a paaaaarteeey... :lol :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Pene makes a valid point:clap :clap Doesn't she always???? :tongue2 :tongue2 Paul, you still haven't told us if it was a stt or a mtt... HUGE difference IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULM03 Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? STT. Would have called without hesitation in an MTT (I think). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? STT. Would have called without hesitation in an MTT (I think). Then we agree... you did the right thing and folded... IMO... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Puntalot Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? I still reckon raise is the call in an STT, but I don't play them - why would it differ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? I still reckon raise is the call in an STT' date=' but I don't play them - why would it differ?[/quote'] Because you are 10 players in a stt...and 1 billion in a mtt... ... main goal is to get ITM in both... but A LOT easier in a stt... so no need risking so many chips... I play a looooot of stt's... and trust me on this... tight is good... untill they all THINK you are very tight... Survival, survival, survival... In a mtt, you have to catch some luck aswell... Luck not always needed in a stt... skill is enough ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULM03 Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Survival, survival, survival... In a mtt, you have to catch some luck aswell... Luck not always needed in a stt... skill is enough ;) That's what I always thought, but I'm going through an awful run that has left my bank very nearly empty after doubling up about once a month for the last 5 months. I don't think I'm doing anything differently, but maybe something subtle in my game has changed. Part of me thinks I'm just having a bad run of cards, I can't remember the last time I had a draw after the flop, just seem to be catching raggy pairs at best. hmmmmm.:\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? I still reckon raise is the call in an STT' date=' but I don't play them - why would it differ?[/quote'] Payout structure in an STT is "flatter" - more benefit to "limping" into the last payout place than there is in an MTT (and by implication less interest in "gambling" to go for the overall win) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? That's what I always thought' date=' but I'm going through an awful run that has left my bank very nearly empty after doubling up about once a month for the last 5 months. I don't think I'm doing anything differently, but maybe something subtle in my game has changed. Part of me thinks I'm just having a bad run of cards, I can't remember the last time I had a draw after the flop, just seem to be catching raggy pairs at best. hmmmmm.:\[/quote'] I have just had a run like that myself... and you get scared of playing your cards... I went down in stakes for a few days and found my normal game again... Cards matter of course, but what matters more is how you play them... and if you lost heaps, you are BOUND to get afraid of losing... and will play badly!!! You need to play for the amount of money that wont hurt you if you lose it... when you are having a bad run... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgej Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Paul - there have been some STT games where i have had over 30 hands without playing them (not because of disconnects). Play the premium hands if you keep getting rags - go fishing with the suited connectors. And i would have raised. Did i just get slapped down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULM03 Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? Cards matter of course, but what matters more is how you play them... and if you lost heaps, you are BOUND to get afraid of losing... and will play badly!!! I think this is part of it. And partly the reason why I posted this thread, I'm on such a bad run I just 'knew' my pocket queens weren't going to stand up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Call, raise or fold? I think this is part of it. And partly the reason why I posted this thread' date=' I'm on such a bad run I just 'knew' my pocket queens weren't going to stand up.[/quote'] Well, get back in it... smaller stakes and find your way back to your normal game... be wise... but fearless... :ok (I hope this has an impact even though I AM a blonde :unsure ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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