French Open 2012

[keepsakes]

Re: French Open 2012 Fairly simple one this. Errani vs MaSha Ever since the draw was out and Serena lost in the first round, the way the tournament panned out seems like the Russian s name has been already etched on that trophy. Today Errani has about as much chance of Richard Gasquet winning the French Open. Zilch... None.. Take Unders at 1.83 or Maria on the handicap. My reason: What can Errani do to trouble Masha here.. There is nothing that the crafty Italian could use to trouble the Russian. Maria will smoke Sara s serves and break her more times than Masha can win her own serve. Be it the serve, returning or the groundies, Errani has no real weapons that can match up to the Russian. I expect Maria to run riot and take this one in less than 60-70 minutes. I doubt if Errani could win more than 4 games all day..

[keepsakes]

Re: French Open 2012

Good work again Fishy yesterday, and excellent stuff overall in the tournament. Its been a tricky one for most including myself, so to come out with such a good profit is impressive. Lost the bets on the overs in the Sharapova semi, meaning I wasn't able to claw myself back into profit for the tournament. Not touching the womens final today, just hoping Errani can keep the fight going for one more match. If she can then she'll scare Sharapova i'm sure, but after the week she's had in her singles and doubles matches (her and Vinci won yesterday) its a big if whether she'll have enough left in her. What do people reckon for the mens final then? Its always a shock to the system to see Novak priced at almost 4's and intial thoughts are that overs or the + handicap could be worth a look. Don't think we'll see another repeat on Monte Carlo. Djokovic played a good game vs Fed, an improvement on his previous two and with all thats at stake, you wouldn't expect the Serb to roll over.

I don't know why there is no interest on this womens finals. IF there is ever a straightforward one, it is to say that MaSha will win easily. She despatched Kvitova easily and even stosur took the second set 6-1. Sharapova is ultra consistent with very few unforced errors (which is unlike her). Errani has no serve and the italians shots will probably end up in the hitting zone of Maria. I cant believe ppl are talking about mens finals already. This one is much more straightforward than most think.

[Banner]

Re: French Open 2012 Iv gone with under 20.5 games at 1.8, won on both games yesterday lets hope its another win today, so far so good

[seanV]

Re: French Open 2012

Today Errani has about as much chance of Richard Gasquet winning the French Open. Zilch... None..

Must admit I laughed :rollin

[fishy25]

Re: French Open 2012 Some good calls on Sharapova guys. Wasn't interested in taking anything in that match as quietly I was rooting for Errani given what she's done over the past couple of weeks. Decent semi final results and pretty glad it's Djokovic and not Federer in the final tomorrow as Roger wouldn't have troubled Nadal at all. Going into tomorrow's final though, I'm currently sitting on +21.20 for the tournament and hopefully that will improve tomorrow. Will have a proper look at the match tomorrow once all of the markets become available but agree with what's been said. Djokovic at 3/1 for any single match is too high but we'll see what happens later on.

[CzechPunter]

Re: French Open 2012 Back Rafael Nadal (-2.5 sets) to beat Novak Djokovic for a 2/10 stake at 2.76 with Pinnacle Smaller stakes only, but I cannot see past Nadal to be honest. Djokovic has been fairly average so far and you need some magic in order to beat Nadal here. Djokovic failed to do anything against Nadal during the clay court swing - and Nadal is even better now than back then. For the full preview click here: http://www.punterslounge.com/nadal-vs-djokovic-betting--rafael-nadal-is-not-going-to-lose-at-the-end-of-his-clay-swing-journey

[keepsakes]

Re: French Open 2012

Back Rafael Nadal (-2.5 sets) to beat Novak Djokovic for a 2/10 stake at 2.76 with Pinnacle Smaller stakes only, but I cannot see past Nadal to be honest. Djokovic has been fairly average so far and you need some magic in order to beat Nadal here. Djokovic failed to do anything against Nadal during the clay court swing - and Nadal is even better now than back then. For the full preview click here: http://www.punterslounge.com/nadal-vs-djokovic-betting--rafael-nadal-is-not-going-to-lose-at-the-end-of-his-clay-swing-journey

The more I think about it, the less I am convinced of Nadal. When was the last time Rafa was tested?? Who are the world beaters he got the better of? Novak might have stuttered along the way but he is not supposed to have got past Seppi Tsonga and Federer. The No1e has upset all the odds and got to the finals. Federer never was really in the reckoning here at Roland Garros but then the consummate professional that he is, he somehow made it to the semis meanwhile ensuring he wouldnt lose too many points. The Swiss i wayy craftier than most ppl think and I dont think he gave his best here at Paris. In fact he mentioned he wasnt felling physically as well as he would have liked to. The epic struggle against Seppi and then against Tsonga reveal the mental and physical colossus that Novak is. Against Federer, the Serb stuck to a simple yet effective plan. The Swiss has nothing to lose. I did say in my earlier post that something is amiss about Roger. And given that this year has olympics, I think Federer took it easy to preserve himself for further tournaments while collecting bonuses viz. Madrid title and Semi finals at rome and Paris. The Swiss had nothing to lose. He went for his shots with disdain and that attitude kind of makes him dangerous. He could have been two sets up. But we all know how bad a matchup the single handed BH against the more-effective-on-slower-surfaces BH he(fed) comes up against. Still Novak broke down both the BH of Federer. Also the Serb played a highly effective match. Although the media and expert-opinions abound make it look like Novak didnt play all that great, when I look at it, I reckon it was professional, neat and quick. Also I notice that Novak has got back the killer backhand and he has just about begun to take the ball early; definitely earlier than in the matches against Seppi and Tsonga. Has Nadal really made any significant adjustments?? I doubt it. at least I doubt the effectiveness of the changes he made. The Spaniard is still too one dimensional. He played a terrible first set against Almagro. Rafa did seem out of the world against Ferrer. But then Ferrer is too predictable. Neither Ferru s serve nor his groundies are effective against NAdal on the slowest court in the world. Once Nadal starts winning the rallies (which might not be as easy on hardcourts) and neutralizes Ferru's serve, Nadal had his fellow spaniard in his pocket. Also PLEASE REMEMBER that fellow Spaniards are too INTIMIDATED by "their" Rafael Nadal. In slams, over five sets, Novak Djokovic has owned Nadal. In fact in USOpen 2011 Novak had serious niggles and he stilled powered through Roger Federer and NAdal. I remember seeing Nadal being fllattened out like a rag doll in Wimbledon, USOpen and the epic Aussie Open. I am absolutely convinced Novak will outlast Nadal if it comes to that. If they play a not-so-lopsided match, Novak will win in the end. What did Novak do last year to beat Nadal twice on Clay without losing a set?? He was just aggressive and never let Nadal settle down. Many argue Nadal has started serving to Nole s FH with some success. some youtube vids will show you Nole actually had a few FH return winners when Nadal served so (at rome). Even without playing well Nole had his chances against Nadal at Rome. A sharper Novak would have closed out the first set 6-4 at Rome. He had his chances. Also, at Monte Carlo and Rome, Nole had a sloppy Backhand. In his match against Federer, Nole s backhand was rock solid. Also Nole started changing the direction of the ball much better as compared to his matches earlier in the year, much akin to the serb's 2011 form. Nole s FH BH serve, defence, offence and serve all match up quite favorably to Nadals on current form. Novak is fitter and has better stamina. He at least has a 40% chance to win tomorrow. I am making a case for Nole to have 45-50 % chance tomorrow (or whenever finals might happen). Nole s motivation is also quite big. Winning this one match will readily and instantly catapult Novak Djokovic into the GOAT debate. And it will be a blow from which Nadal might not recover. Somehow, nadal saying that "he is wary of Novak" only rightly convinces me that he will be very nervous tomorrow. Nadal is trying to relieve the pressure of expectancy by saying Nole has a favorite's chance (something like that). At the cost of making a complete fool of myself, I urge punters to exercise caution. I don't at all think Nadal will win with anything to spare. I do quite fancy Nole s chances here. More than Nadal and More than federer, Nole has a legit chance to hold all 5 major trophies at once ;)

[sportxtipster]

Re: French Open 2012 @keepsakes: You must admit that Djokovic struggled to get here against people that shouldn't! Nadal won against Almagro and Ferrer, guys that are clearly representing something on clay! If Del Potro wouldn't had that injury on the knee, he would have beaten clearly old Roger. And I do not think that Djokovic would have cruised in the semis. Except for Murray, Federer was the worst in the Quarter Finals. I always thought that Djokovic is a good player for a season or two, able to come up with all guns blazing, but on long term he will not be as Roger or Rafael. For the good of the tennis hope I will be wrong. On clay, Nadal seems to be an absolute nightmare for everyone and I never saw him so determined and good!

[keepsakes]

Re: French Open 2012

@keepsakes: You must admit that Djokovic struggled to get here against people that shouldn't! Nadal won against Almagro and Ferrer, guys that are clearly representing something on clay! If Del Potro wouldn't had that injury on the knee, he would have beaten clearly old Roger. And I do not think that Djokovic would have cruised in the semis. Except for Murray, Federer was the worst in the Quarter Finals. I always thought that Djokovic is a good player for a season or two, able to come up with all guns blazing, but on long term he will not be as Roger or Rafael. For the good of the tennis hope I will be wrong. On clay, Nadal seems to be an absolute nightmare for everyone and I never saw him so determined and good!

Certainly.. I agree with the fact that Novak has no business to be here in the finals. But he deserves to be here. He was sloppy before the semis. AND he had no business to be in last years US Open finals as well ;) Needless to say what happened. I might be hallucinating but the fact that the Serb has been tested (with 4 match points against him) only makes me think he will be very hard to beat. Also you are off the mark with Roger. Federer owns Delpotro and the match points the Swiss had against Nole in the fifth set of the USOpen is a testament to his craft, skill and unrivalled ability to read the game. Somehow he found some energy to play the fifth set and have matchpoints and then fluff them both. ALSO Roger Federer did play three tight sets against Nadal in Last years Roland Garros finals. If he had grabbed that set point at 5-2 in the first set, things could have been different. My sole argument is: Nole of 2011 form OWNS Nadal. Will he turn up? Given what is at stake, I think he just might. Only just

[fishy25]

Re: French Open 2012 I'l give a few things in response to you guys and them some things to think about whilst I'm watching the darts. First all of all Keepsakes, you say it is an upset that Djokovic has made the finals? I'd have to disagree with that to be honest and it would have been an extremely brave man to bet against these two guys meeting in the final tbh. Federer is a level below these guys just at the minute, with Murray, Ferrer, Del Potro, Berdych and Tsonga a level below that still. The fact you've mentioned that Djokovic struggled against Seppi and Tsonga shouldn't be discounted whatsoever. The truth of the matter is Djokovic shouldn't be struggling against either guy, not on clay at least. It shows that Djokovic isn't as formidable as he was last season, which we've seen throughout this season so far. The point about Nadal being too one dimensional? Well tbh, you only have to look at his success to see that this 'one dimensional' style of play has hammered pretty much every player he's ever played against before. I also disagree about the point of the Spaniard's being intimidated by him as well. Not Ferrer anyway as he's already pushed Nadal on clay this season and beaten him in 2 grand slams as well. The point is that Djokovic isn't playing as well as he was last season. That's pretty evident. Saying that however, I do think he will be a much bigger test for Nadal tomorrow. Whether the Serb exactly deserves to be in the final is another question as Tsonga probably should have beaten him, but I'm pleased he is as realistically, he's the only player that could cause Nadal problems on the clay. Motivation is there for both players for different reasons and Djokovic still holds that mental edge you feel. Still not sure about the match tomorrow, still need to give it more thought but there's a few points to consider.

[Dylan]

Re: French Open 2012 Yeah well done to those backing Sharapova. Being Italian (well half and only when I feel like it) I just wanted to sit back and watch the final without having to worry about bets as well as Sara herself. As for the final tomorrow, I'm finding it pretty difficult to find a reasonably price bet. :( I know I mentioned earlier about Novaks price and the fact that he might have added motivation because of the history he could make holding all the slams but i'm now not sure how much importance should be placed on that. If this was a goal that he was really focused on achieving then I imagine he would have had that motivation all the way through the tournament as he wouldn't get the chance to do it if he lost in the 4th round. However his performances against Seppi and Tsonga were really poor (lets not forget against Tsonga he was down numerous match points) and when you get a player particularly like Seppi pushing you that hard then its quite clear that he's nowhere near those 2011 levels. That 2011 unbeaten run was the only time that Novak has beaten Rafa on clay, all the other 10 times has seen Rafa come out as victor, predominantly in straight sets so the -2.5 set pick that Czech posted might be worth another look. I do feel the overs and the handicaps particularly on Rafa are just a game or two too high for me. It is the final after all and I cant imagine Djokovic getting bullied of court. In a tight occasion like this he could well take a set. I do however expect Rafa to win. I think in the end I might just follow Fishy in whatever he picks ;)

[fishy25]

Re: French Open 2012

Yeah well done to those backing Sharapova. Being Italian (well half and only when I feel like it) I just wanted to sit back and watch the final without having to worry about bets as well as Sara herself. As for the final tomorrow, I'm finding it pretty difficult to find a reasonably price bet. :( I know I mentioned earlier about Novaks price and the fact that he might have added motivation because of the history he could make holding all the slams but i'm now not sure how much importance should be placed on that. If this was a goal that he was really focused on achieving then I imagine he would have had that motivation all the way through the tournament as he wouldn't get the chance to do it if he lost in the 4th round. However his performances against Seppi and Tsonga were really poor (lets not forget against Tsonga he was down numerous match points) and when you get a player particularly like Seppi pushing you that hard then its quite clear that he's nowhere near those 2011 levels. That 2011 unbeaten run was the only time that Novak has beaten Rafa on clay, all the other 10 times has seen Rafa come out as victor, predominantly in straight sets so the -2.5 set pick that Czech posted might be worth another look. I do feel the overs and the handicaps particularly on Rafa are just a game or two too high for me. It is the final after all and I cant imagine Djokovic getting bullied of court. In a tight occasion like this he could well take a set. I do however expect Rafa to win. I think in the end I might just follow Fishy in whatever he picks ;)

:pukeOh God. You have a death wish mate? :lol

[Banner]

Re: French Open 2012 Nadal to win but not as easy as the bookies are expecting in my opinion, Over 36.5 games @ 1.8, Djokovic hasnt played his best tennis getting to the final but if he could make this a close game with a good performance and should nick a set or maybe even two, Ferrer had break points against Nadal so I would also expect Djokovic to!

[Dylan]

Re: French Open 2012 Don't knock yourself mate, you've been on a roll this tournament. Would have liked to have a further look at a few of the lesser markets but with the Euro's as well i've struggled to find the time to cover everything. I just want to stick a couple of quid on something to keep things interesting, these finals can go on for bloody ages.

[devman]

Re: French Open 2012 Djokovic VS Nadal: Without engaging in a lot of head scratching and soul searching, I think the only point of focus should centre on whether Djokovic can take a set off Nadal as the answer to this will guide one on which way to bet. If the belief is that Djokovic is well capable of winning a set, then the over 36.5 is highly supported. There is also another school of thought that seems to want to convincingly suggest that the overs can still be covered in three tight sets. For some reason I cannot just bring myself to believing that Novak can raise his game any higher than he already has during this championships. Some people seem to have found a new lease of confidence in a trumped up analysis of what might happen preferring to hold on to Novak's fighting spirit as a forte. The also argue that there is more at stake in terms of history for Novak this time around. Novak also must have known this before he was many match points down against Tonga. However, the strongest indication of who is likely to win comes from the h2h. Apart from the two freak wins Djokovic has had over Nadal on clay, every other victory by Nadal has been rather clinical with a lot of sets won convincingly. I also believe that Djokovic has too much ground to make up on the last two comprehensive defeats. Beating a half dead player like Federer does nothing to illuminate his case. Going with paddy powers alternate handicap of Nadal -3.5 looks a safe option as I believe a Nadal victory regardless of sets played should cover the handicap. Gl guys!!!

[keepsakes]

Re: French Open 2012 @ Fishy and @Devman: There is no shame being threatened by Tsonga. I dont know if you folks noticed. This current period from French until the end of wimbledon is where Tsonga plays his best. Iremember last year when he played an excellent match against Djokovic at SW19. I found that far convincing than what Nadal could muster against Nole of 2011. Tsonga can be a freak sometimes who plays with fearless disdain. There are matches where anything and everything he hits goes in. For once, I saw someone outhit Nole from behind the baseline. The frenchman s serve was lethan ON CLAY. On any other surface, if he had reproduced that serving and baseline display, there is NOBODY on planet earth that can beat Tsonga. I do understand if I sound crazy. Tsonga played an unbelievable match. Only people who do not appreciate reality can say Nole should have had no problems with him. It was purely INSPIRED tennis from an unheard of realm in my humble opinion.

[Atko]

Djokovic is playing well, but Nadal is playing better. And this is Rafa's palace, he owns Chatrier. Ever since he beat Nole in Monte Carlo, he's got the belief back. That was clear in Rome. I'm not going to bet but I fancy Nadal to do it in either three or four. He's a class above on clay right now. Just sit back and enjoy, rather than scrabble around for bets that aren't there.

[fishy25]

Re: French Open 2012 Final day then. Currently on +21.20 for the tournament with one match to go. Like Atko says, better to be wary on the bets if you're not totally confident with them. No need to try and convince yourself or persuade yourself into taking something just for the sake of it. I'm not entirely sure the handicaps or overs are the way to go in this final as there's too many possibilities that could ruin them IMO. I was thinking maybe Nadal 3-1 could be a possibility as I do think Djokovic will win a set if nothing more but I'd want a bigger price on that. As it is, I'm having 2 in the final which are coincidently the same bets I took in last year's final in Paris which didn't let me down so I'll hope for a repeat of that. Novak Djokovic (-1.5 Aces) to beat Rafael Nadal- 5/4 Ladbrokes- (7/10) Over 7.5 Breaks of Serve- 21/20 BetVictor- (4/10) Bit of value on both but I don't understand the prices. I took exactly the same bets last year when Federer played Nadal and even though the Spaniard won comfortably, both of these bets were comfortable winners. The ace handicap is a bet I always look to take when Nadal is playing in the semis and final when up against the other top 3. His serve has improved this season but until he turns into a Raonic or Isner for a match, I'm happy to back against him on the ace handicap. I don't actually understand why the handicap is this low as usually it's up at the (3.5/4.5) line which is what I think it should be at. The truth here is that Nadal still doesn't serve that many aces, especially on the slow clay and double especially that he's up against the best returner in the men's game. If we look at the stats so far, Djokovic's ace count as the rounds progress are 6,5,3,5,7,6 whereas Nadal's tally is 0,0,1,2,10,2 so excluding that Almagro match, Djokovic has covered this ace handicap given in every round. Now of course the argument will be that Djokovic has played far more tennis, and his matches have been longer which is true, but in actual fact, Djokovic outscored Tsonga on the ace count in their match which is no easy task and even the likes of Schwank and also Istomin both would have covered this ace handicap against Nadal as well. Nadal as we know gets so much spin on hit shots, and has the advantage of that lefty serve which give him the extra angles, but he shouldn't be serving too many aces here. Djokovic is the best returner on tour and has an effective serve like the stats suggest so I'm pretty happy to hit at least 2 more aces than Rafa in this one. Also backing the overs on the breaks of serve like I did in Djokovic's match against Federer. Even in 3 sets the overs came through comfortably and athlough the worry would be that Nadal does the job hiere in 3 which would harm the bet, I'm still not convinced. Djokovic still has the mental edge in my eyes in the slams despite Nadal beating him twice already this season on clay. He is really the only guy who can cause Nadal some problems on the clay and I'd be extremely surprised if Nadal isn't a little nervous at the start of this match, and the same goes for Djokovic. The Serb really hasn't served particularly well over the 2 weeks in Paris, and has been broken far more than he usually is so Nadal should create chances for himself. Now Nadal I think I'm right in saying has only lost his serve once or twice in Paris which is a superb record, but Djokovic will be at the other side of the net and should put the Spaniard under a lot more pressure than his previous opponents have done. Novak will drive his backhand to Rafa's forehand on the run I expect and that should keep Nadal thinking and Djokovic will always look to mix his baseline ground strokes up a bit to not allow Nadal to settle in as much as he would like. In the end, I do think Nadal will win, perhaps in 4 as I think Djokovic has enough about him to take a set, and if we saw 4 sets, I certainly expect at least 8 breaks of serve, which could be covered in 3 tightish sets anyway but given the value of the odds against for the bet, I'm happy to take it on.

[keepsakes]

Re: French Open 2012 I have a nibble at Djoker winning the first set 6-4 @14. Novak to win 3 sets to 1 @11. Poor bets though. Please feel free not to follow and get burned

[Simmo]

4 breaks of serve and only 7 games played....looking like a great call fishy, glad I followed.

[owenclass]

Re: French Open 2012 what do you reckon guys on nadal losing a set in this match it looks like it might be over in three and i went for over 35.5 games

[CzechPunter]

Re: French Open 2012 Too bad, the rain ruined my bet.

[keepsakes]

Re: French Open 2012

Too bad' date=' the rain ruined my bet.[/quote'] Give the man some credit when it is due. It is not the rain. Its raining games for No1e.. So much for the sarcasm from that six-lettered man... And it is not one bit as straightforward as it was believed... 1,29?? Absolute Djoke..

[CzechPunter]

Re: French Open 2012 No, I am not saying that. Djokovic fully deserves all the credit and it would be fair if he goes on and wins this - in fact, I am probably rooting for him in this one now. I am just saying that he was down and out before the first rain delay, angry, demolishing his chair, etc.

[keepsakes]

Re: French Open 2012 He was down for sure. Was he out? That is debatable... 8 straight games against Nadal on chatrier... That s as good as it gets. I dont even care how the rest of the match pans out. If anything, I am only more certain Nadal s trade wont work on other surfaces. So dull, one dimensional drab and boring to watch.. I fell asleep twice...

[fishy25]

Re: French Open 2012

He was down for sure. Was he out? That is debatable... 8 straight games against Nadal on chatrier... That s as good as it gets. I dont even care how the rest of the match pans out. If anything' date=' I am only more certain Nadal s trade wont work on other surfaces. So dull, one dimensional drab and boring to watch.. I fell asleep twice...[/quote'] The 8 straight games were all pretty much won when it started raining and Nadal started complaining. Djokovic is also playing better now than when the match started but if the rain hadn't have come, I'd have expected Nadal to have won in straight sets tbh. Interesting conclusion tomorrow though. And what are you talking about with all respect? 'Nadal's trade won't work on other surfaces?' Considering he's won Wimbledon twice, as well as the other 2 slams as well, and made the final of the last 5 grand slam finals, including this one, I'd have to say otherwise. If you fall asleep watching Nadal, I'd suggest going to bed at an earlier time or learning to appreciate one of the greatest players ever to have set foot on a tennis court.

[keepsakes]

Re: French Open 2012

The 8 straight games were all pretty much won when it started raining and Nadal started complaining. Djokovic is also playing better now than when the match started but if the rain hadn't have come, I'd have expected Nadal to have won in straight sets tbh. Interesting conclusion tomorrow though. And what are you talking about with all respect? 'Nadal's trade won't work on other surfaces?' Considering he's won Wimbledon twice, as well as the other 2 slams as well, and made the final of the last 5 grand slam finals, including this one, I'd have to say otherwise. If you fall asleep watching Nadal, I'd suggest going to bed at an earlier time or learning to appreciate one of the greatest players ever to have set foot on a tennis court.

No of finals and semi finals etc should not count as to how great a player is. If that was the way things are counted then there would be no match the old man federer. See clearly nadal is what he is because of clay. 6/10 slams on clay says it all. And he has NEVER defended ANY title other than on clay. I seriously wish him some of the tougher draws. He always has it easy. Who did he beat for his second wimbledon title and he had a ridiculous draw at USopen 10.. Oc course he can only beat what is in front of him. I seriously wish either Federer or Nole to end up in Rafa s draws at SW19 and Flushing meadows. And for some reason he almost always gets murray/ferrer. Statistical impossibility if the draws were fair. He is what he is on clay because he is like a wall and keeps putting balls back despite the opponent hitting several back to back good shots. Nadal s trade wont work on other surfaces - as in i dont think he can beat novak on other surfaces in slams. Afterall we are (were) talking abt how he has 'adapted' his game to novaks. Some of the suggestions doing rounds were plain ridiculous. For instance, serving more to the FH of novak paying dividends etc. And how nadal hits it deep to the middle. 3 grams of raquet weight (that takes the cake!!!) Before this match, many discounted novak as having no chance and that he was rightly a dog at a whopping 4. For whatever reasons, Novak managed to win EIGHT straight games on PHILIPPE CHATRIER (the slowesssssssssttt court there is) against RAFAEL NADAL. Rain or no rain... whatever the excuses. Novak dominated him. And that is exactly what I predicted would happen before the match. In fact if Nadal wins tomorrow, I might argue that he got out of jail because he returned fresher the next day as opposed to being flattened out by novak the longer the match goes if played today. one can argue from either point of views aiding or harming nadal. For now, I am hoping Nole just found the right mix of shots, the correct way to play Nadal and i hope he wins tomorrow. For the record, Nadal is one of the finest players ever. I absolutely loved your pick of no of breaks. Hats off mate. And hearty congratulations on such a fabulous deserved success at this French Open. I will go to bed as i please.

[fishy25]

Re: French Open 2012 Cheers for the kind words mate. Still can't agree with everything you've said though ;) Although I quite like this kind of discussion at the end of the tournament. You're saying the number of semis and finals shouldn't give an indication of what a great player is? For me that's the most important factor, and I can't really see what argument there is against that tbh. With regards to defending his titles away from Paris, think you're forgetting that he had to withdraw from Wimbledon in 2009 because of injury where he would have been defending champion. Needless to say he then won it the next year before Djokovic beat him last season. For his second Wimbledon title, he beat Murray in his home tournament and Soderling, before beating Berdych who was playing exceptionally well that week (beat Federer and Djokovic comfortably) Think you're also forgetting that Nadal has beaten both Federer and Djokovic on numerous occasions in slams, sometimes one after the other so I can't go along with your theory about him never having any tough draws. In my eyes Murray would be favourite against Federer in most matches, it's just he can't beat Nadal. It's definitely not 'statistically impossible' though. :lol Nadal isn't what he is because of him being like a wall. That's not his game at all really. He's as good as he is because of his ruthless forehand which is ridiculous at times with the kind of power and spin he gets on it. His serve and passing shots on the backhand side have also improved. He's not just about returning as many balls as possible like say Murray or even Rochus. :rollin Nadal should have actually beaten Djokovic in the end in Melbourne earlier in the year. In that fifth set he missed a smash to make it 5-2 I think but missed it, allowing Djokovic to fight back superbly and take it. I thought the Serb would have chances in this match just because he's that good. Nobody else in the game would have any sort of chance of beating Nadal on clay other than Djokovic but that cross court backhand that I spoke about before the match is crucial when playing Nadal. Whether the rain has played a part (I would say it definitely has) is a tad irrelevant really. Nadal shouldn't have let it get to him regardless, and there's no doubt that Djokovic had ridden the early storm and is matching the Spaniard now. I do agree with you in that the rain perhaps has saved Rafa a bit. If they had continued and the match carried on how in the same manner as it was going, Djokovic would have been where my money was but it could well be a different story come tomorrow morning when the two players essentially have to start all over. FWIW, I sort of want Djokovic to win just because of that never say die attitude in him. Rafa didn't impress me with his attitude towards the umpire and throwing a ball in his direction to try and convince him to suspend play. We'll have to see tomorrow though.

[keepsakes]

Re: French Open 2012

Cheers for the kind words mate. Still can't agree with everything you've said though ;) Although I quite like this kind of discussion at the end of the tournament. You're saying the number of semis and finals shouldn't give an indication of what a great player is? For me that's the most important factor, and I can't really see what argument there is against that tbh. With regards to defending his titles away from Paris, think you're forgetting that he had to withdraw from Wimbledon in 2009 because of injury where he would have been defending champion. Needless to say he then won it the next year before Djokovic beat him last season. For his second Wimbledon title, he beat Murray in his home tournament and Soderling, before beating Berdych who was playing exceptionally well that week (beat Federer and Djokovic comfortably) Think you're also forgetting that Nadal has beaten both Federer and Djokovic on numerous occasions in slams, sometimes one after the other so I can't go along with your theory about him never having any tough draws. In my eyes Murray would be favourite against Federer in most matches, it's just he can't beat Nadal. It's definitely not 'statistically impossible' though. :lol Nadal isn't what he is because of him being like a wall. That's not his game at all really. He's as good as he is because of his ruthless forehand which is ridiculous at times with the kind of power and spin he gets on it. His serve and passing shots on the backhand side have also improved. He's not just about returning as many balls as possible like say Murray or even Rochus. :rollin Nadal should have actually beaten Djokovic in the end in Melbourne earlier in the year. In that fifth set he missed a smash to make it 5-2 I think but missed it, allowing Djokovic to fight back superbly and take it. I thought the Serb would have chances in this match just because he's that good. Nobody else in the game would have any sort of chance of beating Nadal on clay other than Djokovic but that cross court backhand that I spoke about before the match is crucial when playing Nadal. Whether the rain has played a part (I would say it definitely has) is a tad irrelevant really. Nadal shouldn't have let it get to him regardless, and there's no doubt that Djokovic had ridden the early storm and is matching the Spaniard now. I do agree with you in that the rain perhaps has saved Rafa a bit. If they had continued and the match carried on how in the same manner as it was going, Djokovic would have been where my money was but it could well be a different story come tomorrow morning when the two players essentially have to start all over. FWIW, I sort of want Djokovic to win just because of that never say die attitude in him. Rafa didn't impress me with his attitude towards the umpire and throwing a ball in his direction to try and convince him to suspend play. We'll have to see tomorrow though.

If you count the finals semis etc, Federer will eventually be the GOAT with no scope for argument given he is still going strong. Lets us not even go there. If nadal s spin is what makes him nadal on clay, then why would rain affect him much? the last time i checked damp slow conditions take the pace and sting off novak s serve and groundies. Nadal s a relatively poor server. his strengths lie in getting impossible balls back and he plays high percentage tennis. The surface greatly and significantly enhances this. Poor man fed tried his best against Rafa on clay. His single handed backhand has absolutely no chance. Novak has no problems with spin. So technically rain should aid rafa. If the sun beats down, I think nole will win more points. Also, although nadal might have won more points there in that match, Nole eventually won more points than nadal. If conditions are not wet and damp I think it will be nole all the way. I too want djokovic to win. At the australian open, Nole should have won in 4 sets period. that game at 0-40 with three break points on nadal s serve, had nole converted even one, he would have served for the match. Lets assume nadal did miss that sitter when at 5-2. Still it could have at worst had nole take the game at 5-3 and to 5-4. But from 5-2 to 5-7, clearly you cant be serious saying nadal should have won. He had it in his raquet. What more do you want?? In hindsight, nole just bullied nadal off the court in fifth defying all odds. He ran the spaniard ragged like a stuffed toy and Nadal was just dead with no energy. Just like he was at SW19 and Flushing meadows in the finals last year. If the match had gone the distance, i do not think it is likely nadal would have outlasted novak at all. I hate rafa s gamesmanship tactics. In the previous wimbledon wins, he had dubious medical timeouts against Philipp Petzschner and Delpotro. Rather conveniently timed. Even the media cried foul. Again he was here complaining to umpire today abt the rain. Although strictly within the ambit of rules, shoddy attitude. It has been four years since nadal played federer at wimbledon. and i dont think they have played at flushing meadows if my memory serves me well. at least not after 2005. We will get a better picture once they play on these surfaces more frequently before federer is too old. The australian open hard court is probably the slowest. It was this year. the slowest hard court. If only serious tourneys are played indoors. If djokovic played the way he played against nadal on clay at philipp chatrier, I am certain nadal won beat nole on other surfaces over five sets. Will he beat federer? We will find out i guess. sooner than later.. or so i hope

[fishy25]

Re: French Open 2012 How on earth do you class the legends of the game then, if not by grand slam finals and titles? For one, the rain makes the court and balls heavier, meaning Nadal has to put far more into his shots. It shouldn't affect him too much, but the heavier balls will affect any player as it's not what they are used to playing with. Your point about Nadal being a relatively poor server? Coming into the final, he'd only been broken once all tournament and his serve is far better than it used to be. His strengths don't lie in returning impossible balls :lol He is superb at that because he's a fine player, but his strengths are his spin, and primarily that forehand of his which is destructive to anyone. If you can't recognize just how good Nadal's forehand is, you need to watch more tennis. What do you mean, 'let's assume Rafa missed that sitter'? He DID miss that sitter and Djokovic eventually broke. That's what the main turning point in that fifth set was. If Nadal had put it away, I struggle to see a way in which he wouldn't have won that match given how much effort he had put into the comeback. Djokovic was certainly not running Nadal off the court in the fifth set in that match. If you think that, again you need to watch that match again. There's no doubting the Serb's physical condition, but Nadal is a fantastic athlete as well, which is shown through his multiple 5 set wins on the big occasion. Fair enough Nadal wasn't superb attitude wise earlier, but that's the first time I've ever seen him like that. As you love Djokovic so much, if you could explain to me why he feels the need to fake injuries and pretend to be injured, shortly before returning to his best? Surely you can't be criticizing Nadal's gamesmanship when you have Djokovic at the other side of the set? Federer won't beat Nadal again in a grand slam. If you think he has the game, you're firmly living in the past. Nadal has won the last 5 meetings between the two in the slams, including that on the quicker surfaces in Australia and Wimbledon. Federer is a clear level below the top 2, with the other band of Murray, Berdych, Del Potro, Tsonga and Ferrer below that still. Djokovic is certainly at a better place than Nadal right now, but the gap has decreased significantly from last season. Nadal's already beaten Djokovic twice this year in clay, something which he would have struggled to do last year. One last thing, you keep referring to Djokovic 'defying the odds'. What exactly do you mean by that? You said before in one of your posts that he defied them by reaching the final. Tbh, it would have been a shock if he didn't make the final so I don't really get how he's defied the odds there. You've mentioned it again by saying the Serb defied the odds by outplaying Nadal earlier this year in Melbourne (something he didn't do but whatever), why is that defying the odds? If he was handicapped, playing in a wheelchair and blindfolded whilst listening to the sounds of Shania Twain, I'd agree he would be defying the odds, but not in the cases you mention.