French Open 2012

[keepsakes]

Re: French Open 2012 How good nadal s fore hand really is? there is a huge difference between say a 1-2 federer fore hand winner and nadal constructing points with his defence, offence and transition. Nadal hardly pulls the trigger with his forehand as compared to a Delpotro or a federer. It is subjective interpretation. With federer, FH is a clear weapon. On clay rafa can run around most balls and use his forehand. It is certainly the slow surface and his movement that creates a platform for his FH. if it were as good a a weapon as you say, he need not go into long rallies whatso ever. Ferrer has much better chance against Nadal on hard court than on clay. Recent evidence is conclusive. Nadal s forehand remains the same. but Rafa has more time on slower surface to use his FH. it is the SURFACE. the supreme athlete that rafa is, he cannot be outhit on clay and he has all the time in the world to retrieve balls with excellent effect (no short balls). I will make a bold claim, a guess and say one of Tsonga, Federer and Murray will beat nadal on grass/hard slam/olympics this year. over five sets. We will see. faking and lulling your opponent into believing your are injured is not the same as taking a convenient medical timeout when your opponent is in the ascendancy. SW19 fined nadal for "coaching". Nadal could have appealed but alas video evidence would have revealed 'uncle' toni was dishing out more than the occasional 'vamos'. It is on record and you know it. In 2010 when nadal played Delpotro, he played the games until 6-games apiece in the first set. he had a set point and he played on. Del potro saved and made it six games all. just before the tie breaker rafa called for the trainer while delpotro was clearly on the up and up. if he can play till 6 games all when he had a set point, he can surely carry on until the end of the tie breaker. Turning point in oz open. Oh come on.. one point turned the match is it? then how come nole won five games in a row? Nadal was just out of breath and this serbian would just not go away. Going by the same argument, nole should have shut the door on Nadal in the fourth. At 0-40 down three break points nadal played a blinder and too the tie breaker only the way he could have. And then adrenaline or its lack caught up. He was drained. I am completely wrong about the "against all odds". I concede that. Nole was and is supposed to be here in the finals. I wrote it all wrong. What i meant is he came from the brink. And he spent way too much time and energy on the court on those five setters. I didnt think he will recover and I genuinely thought federer will at least take a set off the djoker.

[fishy25]

Re: French Open 2012 Oh no doubt that Nadal's forehand is far more lethal on the clay surface, but it's still superb on the quicker courts as well with the top spin he generates on the ball. The way you're talking about Ferrer suggests he's no better than a top 50 player. He's one of the best in the world now and he's worked extremely hard to do that. People really underrate him. The truth is he can give any player a game on any surface if he's at his best. I'll give my last point as it looks as though we're going to have to agree to disagree on a few things. I'm not saying the likes of Murray and Tsonga won't beat Nadal. I actually think Tsonga has an outside chance of winning Wimbledon in truth and I think there could be a different winner than we usually see come a months time. Federer though is so poor against Nadal. Whenever you watch the two of them, Nadal completely dominates and never has to actually play that well to beat him. It's more of a mental thing really in which the Spaniard just has the edge over Federer now and has done for a while. I'd love to see Federer win another slam. Whether it will happen I'm not sure tbh. Think Nadal and Djokovic will win loads more, Murray should win at least a couple I think. Would be surprised if Tsonga and Del Potro don't win one in the coming years, whilst Raonic's game looks to be improving all the time and he could well be amongst the front runners sooner rather than later.

[IAmGooner]

Re: French Open 2012 Doubt Murray will ever win one tbh, still think Fed takes him down in a big slam match. Obv Nadal and Djoker there too. For me, Nadal's forehand is the most effective shot in the game, key word effective rather than the best. It's an unorthodox shot, and a big reason why the match-up is a problem for Fed with single-handed backhand hitting flat.

[keepsakes]

Re: French Open 2012

Oh no doubt that Nadal's forehand is far more lethal on the clay surface, but it's still superb on the quicker courts as well with the top spin he generates on the ball. The way you're talking about Ferrer suggests he's no better than a top 50 player. He's one of the best in the world now and he's worked extremely hard to do that. People really underrate him. The truth is he can give any player a game on any surface if he's at his best. I'll give my last point as it looks as though we're going to have to agree to disagree on a few things. I'm not saying the likes of Murray and Tsonga won't beat Nadal. I actually think Tsonga has an outside chance of winning Wimbledon in truth and I think there could be a different winner than we usually see come a months time. Federer though is so poor against Nadal. Whenever you watch the two of them, Nadal completely dominates and never has to actually play that well to beat him. It's more of a mental thing really in which the Spaniard just has the edge over Federer now and has done for a while. I'd love to see Federer win another slam. Whether it will happen I'm not sure tbh. Think Nadal and Djokovic will win loads more, Murray should win at least a couple I think. Would be surprised if Tsonga and Del Potro don't win one in the coming years, whilst Raonic's game looks to be improving all the time and he could well be amongst the front runners sooner rather than later.

No disrespect to ferrer at all whatsoever. the fact that clay is his best surface and that he is more effective against the best clay courter of all time in nadal on a surface other clay suggests 1. nadal is just godon clay 2. on faster surfaces nadal s weapons can be neutralized. I dont know if it is a mental problem or more of a matchup problem. but yeah nadal owns federer over five sets. i would love to see what would happen if they meet again on grass and hard courts (usopen). As for Tsonga winning a slam, it is a very tough ask. he underperforms against the smaller guns which is a classic sign of complacency. He will get out to the likes of Raonic Dimitrov Dolgopolov Tipsarevic - players who are no nadals and federers but who can play a solid game on slams. But every once in a while Tsonga does play blinders. I would love to see him win. I really do not think Delpotro has another slam in him. not in the next three years. It was already enough to contend with nadal and federer. as if it wasnt enough now djokovic has improved. Murray and ferrer are contending for the 'best player never to win a slam' title. I would like to see if andy murray can do it. honestly i dont think he can take two ppl out of the top three in slams. My last one - this. cheers fishy. great discussion. Learnt a few things

[jpffc]

Djokovic to win @ 3.40 betfair A set down and with a break up in the 4th, if he can grab the 4th it's 50/50 in my opinion. Lost all the momentum yesterday with rain calling it off but I think he still has control mentally over Nadal who wished he could of put it to bed in 3 sets. If he wins the 4th I will try and cover my stake back betting on Nadal at 2.00. Fingers crossed and good luck

[Simmo]

Re: French Open 2012

Djokovic to win @ 3.40 betfair A set down and with a break up in the 4th, if he can grab the 4th it's 50/50 in my opinion. Lost all the momentum yesterday with rain calling it off but I think he still has control mentally over Nadal who wished he could of put it to bed in 3 sets. If he wins the 4th I will try and cover my stake back betting on Nadal at 2.00. Fingers crossed and good luck

Took this bet myself last night. Rain or no rain, winning 8 games straight against Nadal on clay deserves A LOT of respect. He may have been whinging about the conditions, and they may or may not have affected his game more than Djokovic's (any thoughts from our resident experts?) but the truth is both players had to deal with it. I'm fairly sure Djokovic wasnt delighted about playing in those conditions, but he just got on with it. I said to my other half during the second set that I thought Djokovic just needed to cut down on some silly errors and he would be right back in the match, and it duly happened. It was clear to see that once the longer rallies got going, Djokovic had more power than Nadal and was managing to hit the ball earlier than Rafa, who was frequently scrambling back to get in position and subsequently hitting it off the back foot and late. More and more it looked like Djokovic was thriving on having to deal with the high bounce, using it to his advantage by jumping off the ground slightly just before impact, meaning that he could effectively 'slap' the ball back to Nadal with a lot of power. I can easily see Djokovic winning this now and odds of 3.40 are too good to turn down. Inspired Breaks of Serve bet Fishy, I think something like 11 out of the first 23 games were breaks.

[Lahrio]

Re: French Open 2012

More and more it looked like Djokovic was thriving on having to deal with the high bounce, using it to his advantage by jumping off the ground slightly just before impact, meaning that he could effectively 'slap' the ball back to Nadal with a lot of power.

I think the conditions reduced the bounce, which made it much easier for Novak to deal with Rafa. I don't think he will find it as easy today to deal with it. I also think Rafa was creating problems in his mind as a result of the conditions which you would expect him to have fixed with a sleep. I think the odds are about right, and expect Rafa to come out as he did at the start of the match. If Novak isn't at the top of his game from the first serve of the day, Rafa will take the set and that will be it.

[Simmo]

Re: French Open 2012 Any idea how dry the court will be after yesterday? Would have thought clay would take a while to dry out completely.

[Lahrio]

Re: French Open 2012 I won't answer because it would almost be a guess to be honest. Maybe one of the more experienced clay court tennis punters on the forum would have a better idea?

[Atko]

Re: French Open 2012

Any idea how dry the court will be after yesterday? Would have thought clay would take a while to dry out completely.

The court will be heavy and grimey and the conditions are quite muggy so I'd expect it to be slow play.

[fishy25]

Re: French Open 2012 Looks like that break in play did Nadal the world of good. Shame I didn't plump for that 3-1 Nadal score like I had originally thought but on the whole it's been a really good tournament profit wise. The final wasn't a great success betting wise as I didn't envisage Nadal outserving Djokovic on the aces but the breaks of serve was covered virtually in the second set and a few look to have got on board which was good. As it is though, the final means it's a final standing of +18.40pts which I'll take as I always feel the French Open is the hardest slam to predict and make a sizeable profit out of. I'll take a couple of weeks out before Wimbledon as it's been quite a hectic period in the past couple of weeks with uni exams and the French coinciding. Well done to everyone in profit for the tournament and let's hope the good calls continue through Queens and Halle into Wimbledon. :ok

[owenclass]

Re: French Open 2012 well the overs came through in the end i thought it might go to five sets but well done rafa he won it again