Where do you learn about horseracing?

[A7]

Like with football, you've got SSN, MOTD, Sky Sports and bbcfootball.co.uk etc .. it's in your face all the time. It isn't hard to work it out. It takes 10 minutes for someone who knows nothing about it to be told the rules and understand it. But where do you learn about horseracing?? What makes one horse better than another? Age, weight?? If neither of those 2 are prominent reasons, what are the main differences that set them apart?? Jockey? Why is it that so often the favourite is nowhere near winning and that from what it seems to me more often than not it's someone who is ranked 2nd/3rd/4th/5th/6th etc on odds of 16 or 12 or sometimes 69 :unsure, who wins the race?? It makes me wonder, because it seems very random. I remember that race, Ascot? where Goldikova and Paco Boy were racing .. why have I not seen them since?? Why is it that most races on Betfair seem to be class 4/5 etc?? Also how many horses are there?? Because I'm trying to get a gist of the horses and just build up my ideas about some, but it seems impossible to remember most of the names cas there's so many horses! The daily races on Betfair, is it a league or some kind of competition?? Or is it just like a friendly or something?? Just general questions like that I'd like to know the answers to if possible, cheers. It is something I'd like to get to know because I must admit I've really enjoyed horseracing since I've started betting on it .. that beautiful feeling when you see your horse power home :notworthy Cheers.

[fintron]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? gaz, there is a structure to uk racing. We have flat and jumps. Within jumps there are hurdles and chase races. Ill take flat as an example. The races are divided into classes, 1 down to 7, the higher the better the quality of horse competing and the higher the prize money. Within class 1 there are group 1, group 2 or group 3 races, as well as listed races. Group 1 are for the elite horses, the champions league if you like.

[Gingertipster]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? What a question GA! That'll take a month to answer. Will try and help when I have more time.

[A7]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing?

gaz' date=' there is a structure to uk racing. We have flat and jumps. Within jumps there are hurdles and chase races. Ill take flat as an example. The races are divided into classes, 1 down to 7, the higher the better the quality of horse competing and the higher the prize money. Within class 1 there are group 1, group 2 or group 3 races, as well as listed races. Group 1 are for the elite horses, the champions league if you like.[/quote'] So take the 18:40 at Windsor tonight ... I know it's class 5, where on Betfair does it say the Group and whether it is flat or jump? I can't see it.

[Gingertipster]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? Might be better to start by looking at the Racing Post or Sporting Life websites rather than betfair to start with GA. Look at their racecards section. If you want to know the kind of stuff to consider when having a bet, then take a look at How To Produce A 100% Book on page 48 here (you are on page 1 now). If you want to know about every horse that has run in GB and I this season, suggest you buy a Timeform Black Book.

[Gingertipster]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? GA, I'd advise any novice gambler to keep his wallet sewn up until he knows more about racing.

[fintron]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? every horse in training has an official rating, this is like a fifa ranking allocated to teams in football. If a horse wins races its rating goes up, if it loses it often goes down. The rating is on a sliding scale of 0 upwards and decided by the british horseracing authority (bha). horses have to either run three times or win a race and are given a rating. Once they have rating the trainer can determine which class of race to enter as there are limits, for example a class 4 at windsor tonight is for horses rated 0-80. Anything rated 100 is deemed too good for the race and isnt allowed to enter.

[A7]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing?

every horse in training has an official rating' date=' this is like a fifa ranking allocated to teams in football. If a horse wins races its rating goes up, if it loses it often goes down. The rating is on a sliding scale of 0 upwards and decided by the british horseracing authority (bha). horses have to either run three times or win a race and are given a rating. Once they have rating the trainer can determine which class of race to enter as there are limits, for example a class 4 at windsor tonight is for horses rated 0-80. Anything rated 100 is deemed too good for the race and isnt allowed to enter.[/quote'] So within a class 4 race, what makes you go for a particular horse?

[fintron]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? there are many different types of race. In Handicaps each horse carries a different weight with the aim of giving each runner the same chance of winning. Maidens are for horses that have never won a race and weights are pretty much same for all runners. Sellers are for poor grade horses and the runners are bidded on after the race and are for sale. Group races are for the elite. Have a read around gaz, hope theses basics help give gibe a starting point

[Monterosso]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing?

GA, I'd advise any novice gambler to keep his wallet sewn up until he knows more about racing.

This. I non stop lost money until I was clued in, Now I make money at it. Just follow it for a few months, Pick out horses and just watch them run for a while, I done that for 6 months and now back a few horses every day and have had good results for the last 6 months. It's not a game to get involved in if you're clueless about it. Watch, Listen and Learn, Then when you know your stuff, Take out the cold hard cash and you'll hopefully win.

[fintron]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? to answer your two questions. The race distance gives away if its flat or jumps. No races less than 2m are jumps and in flat most are a miler or less. How you you decide who to back in a race....there are so many factors to consider, its best to bet dry and investigate as others have said, you will only waste money until you are clued up.

[Blair Boy]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? I would advise picking out a few races to watch, once you have seen the race go back and look at the card to try and figure out why the winning horse won the race. Which factors were in the horses favour to show why it was able to go on and win. Also compare the winner to your own selection if that is the case to see where you went wrong.

[Gingertipster]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing?

So within a class 4 race' date=' what makes you go for a particular horse?[/quote'] Look at the rating each horse is capable of running to given the race conditions: The two things that effect a horse's performance most are going (surface ridden on) and distance raced over. What going and distance requirements they have. Most horses are better on one type of surface than another. Turf goings are: Heavy, soft, good-soft, good, good-firm and firm. Then there's all-weather surfaces polytrack and fibresand. Racehorses have different distance requirements, some athletes are better at 100 metres, 200m, 400m, 800m, 1500m, 5000m, 10000m or 26 miles. It's the same with racehorses; some will be better at sprints (5 furlongs or 6f), 7f to 1 mile, 1m2f to 1m4f (middle distances), 1m6f to 2m6f (staying distances). 1 furlong is equal to 220 yards. You need to ask yourself: Is each horse favoured by the distance? If it hasn't run over the trip before, does his breeding (father and mother, brothers and sisters etc.) and how he races at other distances (pulls hard or finishing strongly etc.) suggest it will be effective at the distance concerned.

[Gingertipster]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? Then there are other things that influence a race: Is the horse in good form? How did it run last time? Is it improving or likely to improve or on the downgrade? Did it run well or poorly last time out? Was there a valid reason for it running poorly? How is the race likely to be run? Will it be a fast run race or slowly run? Is each horse likely to be favoured by how it will be run? To know this take a look at how many in the race like to race prominently, how many like to track pace, how many like to be near the back (held up or dropped out). What is each horse's temperament like? Some don't want to lead (win). Some try hard to win (genuine). Who is the trainer? Is he / she in form? Is it ridden by a good jockey? Is it suited by the type of track? Some like undulating tracks, some like a flat track, some like one with sharp bends.

[Gingertipster]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? Once you've assessed each horse the most important question is: Is each horse value to win? A horse priced at 3/1 needs to (in your opinion) have a better than 25% chance of winning to be worth a bet. A 9/1 chance 10%, 33/1 3% etc.

[Trotter]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? I think a good way to get started would be how I did it At first I was only looking at a basic daily newpaper 'card' with the limited information available. Doing this you're quite likely to be impressed by the betting forecast and the form figures and the jockey/trainer and symbols like C, D, CD, BF etc.........these are the things that distinguish one horse from another on the card. You learn what all these things mean, then how much relative importance to attach to them in your own mind and in your selection process It's a good place to start because there's limited information, you won't get information overload until you've grasped some basics and can cope with it. (You'll probably be losing money during this period, so bet small !) Pretty soon you'll realise that you haven't got enough information and you'll start asking questions like - what if the race that horse A finished 5th in was a much, much better race than the one horse B won ? Is it enough to know that a horse won last time out and another finished 5th, or do i really need to know what races those were, how good were they ? Why is horse A carrying 9 stone 10 when it hasn't won for 7 races and another horse is carrying 8 stone 4 and it's won it's last 3 races ? Why is the horse trained by Sir M Stoute favourite when it's never run and the one of Mrs R Carr 20/1 when it finished 2nd last time ? ..........and one question will lead to another............ At that point you've got to graduate to proper racing form, which these days means The Racing Post All the information you need is there - you've got to decide what questions you're asking about the race and go look for the answers. You might start off by thinking that 'class of race' is something you really need to know - what class have todays runners been running in before and are they now in an easier race or a harder one ? You might go a few days just looking at this. Then another thing might come up like - is there any clues in the horses previous runs that they'll be suited by todays 7 furlong race on soft going.........and you spend a few days focussing on that aspect. But you've still got 'race class' in mind as well.......... Then you move on to another factor........and so on .......differences between tracks and similarities of some tracks to other tracks and if these suit particular horses, is the trainer 'in form' ?.........collateral form, speed figures, form ratings, breeding, ..........there's a myriad of variables you can consider or can look at and decide not to bother with. Gradually you build up your own pattern of what to look for in a horse's race history which might lead to it having a good chance of winning todays race. This is probably something we all develop individually over time.........you find a 'form study method' that you're comfortable with........ In short - give it time and work at it..............

[markmywords]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? Ginge would your up your stakes if you think a 100/1shot has a 50/1 chance? GA there is a decent glossary above that helped inform me more trotter advice is spot on though

[jayalexander]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? There is an excellent book for someone just starting out, by Belinda Levez. It's called Back A Winning horse. The top price you'd say for it is £10, but it's bang up to date. Highly recommended!

[Gingertipster]

Ginge would your up your stakes if you think a 100/1shot has a 50/1 chance?

MMW, Nobody is 100% accurate in their working out, so I have a "margin for error". If backing something I believe has a fair 4/1 20% chance at 9/2 (18.2%) I need to be within 1.8% accurate each time I bet. Where as (unless I think it is a very easy race to work out) if I believe a horse has a 20% fair 4/1 chance, and is available at 5/1 (16.7%) I'd only need to be within 3.3% accurate. Therefore, I usually only back one I believe has a fair 4/1 chance, if I can get 5/1 or bigger. There's a sliding scale, being easier to work out what is a 2% rather than a 3% or 1% chance, than working out a 20% rather than an 18% or 22% chance. So a 1% difference is o.k. for a rank outsider. If I think a horse has a 2% 50/1 chance, in most circumstances I'd need 100/1 (1%) to back it anyway. So no would not up stakes. Although I do have a way of staking where I up the stakes depending on how much value I believe is in the bet. Basically adding 1 point per percentage point above my evaluation. e.g. If I think a horse has a fair 3/1 25% chance who's available at best price 7/2 (22%), the difference between 22 and 25 is 3, so 25 + 3 = 28. So the stake is 28 points @ 7/2. If my fair price was 3/1 and best price available 4/1 (20%), 25 - 20 = 5, 25 + 5 = 30, so my stake is 30 points @ 4/1. This way of staking means you stake more on the horses with a good chance of winning (short prices), yet win more on the horses with less money risked on them (outsiders). Toying with the idea of adding 2 points per percentage point to increase the stake for excellant value bets.

[markmywords]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? Thanks for the answer Ginge it makes value betting a fair bit clearer.

[TheRat]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? I used to study form based on paper comments and going, form etc and not even see the races I was betting due to time, and didn't get chance to see much racing. Now I watch it all day and it makes a massice difference to my slections. I have already said I am doing really well in group races this year because I see all races around the globe multiple times and this just maes a massive difference. I can pick winners based on form lines and performance. Obviously the basics still apply in a big way but at the top level it is not about looking at the top rated etc. It doesn;t always help, like Flying Cloud today, but watching top handicaps and knowing horses that will improve on the step up by watching them come through the ranks makes a massive difference where as before I was just reading about it and looking at figures etc I am still miles off but doing this for a few years I think personal judgement means so much in this class and it has made a difference to my betting

[fintron]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing?

i dont want to here about tomorrows best bets i just want 1winner a week/month rather than ten winners a day and 50 loosers:lol

What if the final profit from ten winner and 50 losers was bigger than having 1 winner a week and no losers? Profit is more important than yield. ;)

[fintron]

Re: Where do you learn about horseracing? Punter A has one bet a month on strongly fancied horses that meet all of his selection criteria. He backs horses around evens to 2/1 and finds 8/12 winners (66 % Strike rate) over the course of the year for final profit of 8 pts frpm 12 pts staked. A ROI of +66 % Punter B looks in the same odds ranges for his bets and also only backs horses he fancies strongly. However, he isnt as select as punter A and has around two bets a day on average. Because he has more bets his strike rate is lower than Punter A but he still stays ahead by betting to 1 pt/per bet and manages a strike rate of 50 % with his overall profit over the same time period of 12 bets lower at 3 pts. However, because his volume of bets is larger he actually ends up with more profit than Punter A. 2 bets a day = 60 a month = 720 a year as opposed to 12 of punter A. If Punter B is making 3 pts profit for every 12 outlaid (a 25 % yield) then he makes 180 pts profit at the end of the year. Would you rather have a 66 % yield and 8 pts profit or 25 % yield and 180 pts profit? you could argue that Punter A bets less frequently so is able to bet larger amounts, but that itself can lead problems. How does he know one of his ultra strong bets is gonna be around the corner? Will his judgement be clouded if the first couple lose, forcing him into actually backing horses by bending criteria that he wouldnt otherwise touch if in form. Punter B throws money at the bookmaker a lot more frequently but his is a safer way of betting, a safety in numbers approach if you like. He knows that although he may experience short term losing runs in the long run he will be ahead when the winners do come in, and even though his yield is lower he grinds out the profit gradually. It makes him less susceptible to losing runs. I'd be interested to see what other members think?