R Thornton needs sacking

[w1nsome]

This jockey has totally lost the plot--must be 1 of the worst jockeys to have a top job--riding for 1 of the best stables.[A.King] I know A Kings horses have not been in top form all season,but the amount of mistakes and falls this jockey gives his mounts during a race is terrible --can he not see strides???. I'm sure he is gonna wreck a few decent horses careers before they even start ,with his pathetic horsemanship.

[bowles10]

Re: R Thornton needs sacking

This jockey has totally lost the plot--must be 1 of the worst jockeys to have a top job--riding for 1 of the best stables.[A.King] I know A Kings horses have not been in top form all season,but the amount of mistakes and falls this jockey gives his mounts during a race is terrible --can he not see strides???. I'm sure he is gonna wreck a few decent horses careers before they even start ,with his pathetic horsemanship.

not seen enough to comment really as i rarely back Kings horses as they are in such poor form i know it sounds like we talk through our pockets but these things are well worth putting up perhaps the title is a little strong though! :\

[diamond1924]

Re: R Thornton needs sacking I've practically given up on King's horses this season, never once thought Choc was poor. King talks highly enough of choc and his role in the operation.

[stewartd14]

Re: R Thornton needs sacking

This jockey has totally lost the plot--must be 1 of the worst jockeys to have a top job--riding for 1 of the best stables.[A.King] I know A Kings horses have not been in top form all season,but the amount of mistakes and falls this jockey gives his mounts during a race is terrible --can he not see strides???. I'm sure he is gonna wreck a few decent horses careers before they even start ,with his pathetic horsemanship.

Oh come on ....... please :zzz

[Gingertipster]

With such a strong thread name W1nsome, think you should give some examples of Thornton's supposed poor horsemanship. Kingy's form in the last week has been quite good. However, a friend of mine went on a stable visit to Barberry Castle on Friday. He informed me their party were kept away from the actual stables, with horses brought out to parade for them. This suggests there is still some sort of virus in the yard and Alan does not want it spread. King's form all year has not been up to his usual standard; whoever rides them. This is though, only one year and it is far too soo to write off either trainer or jockey. Do think there should be questions asked. My Way De Solzen was a terrific genuine racehorse for a few years, yet something clearly went wrong. Latterly his form tailed off and looked as though his temperament deteriorated. If this was just one isolated case it could be easily excused. But Blazing Bailey also lost his form in a similar way, before age caught up with him. Voy Por Ustedes another who used to be a very genuine quick and accurate jumper. Yet this year he's a poor jumper who obviously has a problem. A much higher head carriage than in his younger days suggests to me it could be physical. At the moment it is impossible to say whether it is trainer, jockey or coincidence. Have thought about backing Bensalem for next year's Cheltenham Gold Cup. Considering the poor year they've had; if Mr King can get his fencing sorted out, could yet improve in to a top class racehorse. Like any jockey, Robert Thornton is probably effected by confidence, but his Cheltenham record before this year is remarkable. In my opinion he's still in the top 7 jockeys. Few weeks ago there was a similar thread about Richard Johnson, look what he's done since!

[w1nsome]

Re: R Thornton needs sacking Ginge thanks for your coments Lets start with Bensalems last 3 runs jan23rd hay--4 runner races--cantering in last place,turning into straight DiamondHarry really quickens pace going to 3rd last--Choc decides to barge between horses and in my view caused Bensalem to fall, as horse was a little distracted barging between runners. 13th feb newbury--3 horse race--again cantering in last place.the leader InchnadalyRock is continually jumping vilently out to right at each fence.What does Choc decide to do???chalenge on the outside going to the cross fence,when he had acre's of track to make the challenge on inside--result--demolished the fence and lucky to survive. 16th mar Chel--24 runners--always going well came to 2nd last with plenty of horse,Choc seemed to be searching for a stride,at that moment other jocks are commiting their horses became pretty tight and down he went. I believe there is a huge race in this horse and dont believe hes that bad a jumper--as long as he is not soured

[diamond1924]

Re: R Thornton needs sacking Would that no suggest there's a problem with Bensalem?

[w1nsome]

Re: R Thornton needs sacking Heres the stats on AKings list of runners for last 14 days R Thornton -----25 rides=2 wins W Hutchinson---13 rides=4 wins Statistics

Last 14 Days Decs/Entries

Date	Conditions			Runner	Race Result	Jockey	OR
27Mar10	Ban	24GS	4y+ HcapHdl(13K)	Thetwincamdrift 11-7[6/1]	15th of 15 55.75L behind Mith Hill	W Hutchinson
27Mar10	Ban	17GS	4y+ H(5K)	Mister Stickler 11-0[13/8]	1st of 8 1L to Castlerock	W Hutchinson
27Mar10	New	21S	4y+ HcapHdl(40K)	Asturienne 11-2[20/1]	p.u. in race won by Ryde Back	R Thornton
27Mar10	New	22S	5y+ NovCh(40K)	Over Sixty 11-4[4/1]	u.r. in race won by Double Hit	R Thornton
24Mar10	Kem	10A	3y+ Mdn(4K)	Ebiayn 10-0[12/1]	1st of 7 3 ½L to Celtic Commitment	J P Spencer
24Mar10	Hay	16S	4-5y NHF(2K)	High Benefit 10-9[11/10f]	1st of 9 16L to Saintly Lady	W Hutchinson
24Mar10	Her	20GS	4y+ H(5K)	No Tears 11-1[7/2]	fell in race won by Five Out Of Five	R Thornton
24Mar10	Her	20GS	4y+ HcapHdl(4K)	Prince Broc 11-10[8/1]	p.u. in race won by Kahsabelle	R Thornton
23Mar10	Kem	21G	4y+ H(4K)	Ravethebrave 11-1[15/8]	1st of 9 4L to Great Reason	R Thornton
21Mar10	Fon	18GS	4y+ H(5K)	Kauto The Roc 11-1[4/1]	5th of 9 21.94L behind Sophies Trophy	R Thornton
20Mar10	Ffo	16G	4-6y NHF(2K)	Lucky Mix 10-4[5/2]	6th of 7 11.56L behind Character Actor	W Hutchinson
20Mar10	Utt	16G	4-6y NHF(1K)	Raya Star 10-9[13/2]	1st of 10 2 ¼L to O Malley's Oscar	R Thornton
20Mar10	Ffo	24G	5y+ HcapCh(15K)	Wind Instrument 11-11[7/4f]	5th of 5 36.75L behind Petite Margot	W Hutchinson
20Mar10	Utt	16G	4-6y NHF(1K)	Tocatchaprince 10-6[14/1]	7th of 10 9.75L behind L'accordioniste	Gerard Tumelty
20Mar10	Ffo	20G	4y+ HcapHdl(8K)	Pagano 11-0[10/1]	6th of 7 47.00L behind National Trust	W Hutchinson
20Mar10	Utt	24G	5y+ NovCh(15K)	Junior 11-12[14/1]	3rd of 11 28.75L behind Carrickmines	R Thornton
20Mar10	Utt	16G	4y+ HcapHdl(9K)	Peter Grimes 10-10[12/1]	p.u. in race won by Miss Ladybird	R Thornton
19Mar10	Che	20GS	4y+ HcapHdl(50K)	Saticon 11-6[33/1]	9th of 24 16.75L behind Pause And Clause	Gerard Tumelty
19Mar10	Che	20GS	4y+ HcapHdl(50K)	Balzaccio 11-0[33/1]	16th of 24 34.63L behind Pause And Clause	Charlie Huxley
19Mar10	Fak	21G	5y+ HcapCh(10K)	Bormo 11-12[10/11f]	1st of 5 1 ¾L to Royal Wedding	W Hutchinson
19Mar10	Fak	24G	5y+ NovCh(7K)	Penn da Benn 11-0[4/9f]	2nd of 6 11L behind Pheidias	W Hutchinson
19Mar10	Che	24GS	4y+ H(100K)	The Betchworth Kid 11-7[16/1]	p.u. in race won by Berties Dream	R Thornton
19Mar10	Che	17GS	4y H(100K)	Gilded Age 11-0[28/1]	6th of 17 15.50L behind Soldatino	R Thornton
18Mar10	Che	21GS	5y+ HcapCh(80K)	Tarotino 10-11[16/1]	p.u. in race won by Great Endeavour	R Thornton
18Mar10	Che	24GS	4y+ H(260K)	Karabak 11-10[15/2]	4th of 14 14.75L behind Big Buck's	A P McCoy
18Mar10	Che	24GS	4y+ H(260K)	Katchit 11-10[14/1]	11th of 14 48.25L behind Big Buck's	R Thornton
18Mar10	Che	21GS	5y+ S(220K)	Voy Por Ustedes 11-10[9/1]	5th of 13 15.53L behind Albertas Run	R Thornton
18Mar10	Che	24GS	5y+ HcapHdl(75K)	Trenchant 11-6[25/1]	16th of 24 26.16L behind Buena Vista	R Thornton
18Mar10	Che	24GS	5y+ HcapHdl(75K)	Chamirey 10-4[28/1]	3rd of 24 5.13L behind Buena Vista	W Hutchinson
18Mar10	Che	21GS	5y+ NovCh(80K)	Awesome George 10-13[28/1]	p.u. in race won by Copper Bleu	Charlie Huxley
17Mar10	***	16G	4-6y NHF(2K)	The Laodicean 10-13[4/1]	8th of 16 11.25L behind Theredballoon	Gerard Tumelty
17Mar10	Che	16G	4y HcapHdl(75K)	Causeway King 11-7[20/1]	18th of 24 38.63L behind Sanctuaire	R Thornton
17Mar10	Che	21G	4y+ HcapHdl(75K)	Lake Legend 11-6[18/1]	26th of 28 90.92L behind Spirit River	W Hutchinson
17Mar10	Che	21G	4y+ HcapHdl(75K)	Silk Hall 11-1[80/1]	25th of 28 55.92L behind Spirit River	Christian Williams
17Mar10	Che	21G	4y+ HcapHdl(75K)	Sir Harry Ormesher 11-1[12/1]	7th of 28 10.38L behind Spirit River	R Thornton
17Mar10	Che	16G	5y+ S(320K)	Oh Crick 11-10[66/1]	5th of 9 12.50L behind Big Zeb	W Hutchinson
17Mar10	***	16G	4y+ MdnHdl(4K)	Shilpa 10-4[17/2]	1st of 15 1 ¼L to Max Milano	Gerard Tumelty
17Mar10	Che	21G	4y+ H(100K)	Manyriverstocross 11-7[11/1]	7th of 17 15.00L behind Peddlers Cross	R Thornton
17Mar10	Che	32G	5y+ NovCh(75K)	Pennek 11-6[16/1]	11th of 18 48.88L behind Poker De Sivola	Mr Joshua Moore
16Mar10	Che	16GS	4y+ H(370K)	Medermit 11-10[11/1]	7th of 12 18.78L behind Binocular	R Thornton
16Mar10	Che	24GS	5y+ HcapCh(80K)	Nenuphar Collonges 10-12[16/1]	8th of 24 14.44L behind Chief Dan George	W Hutchinson
16Mar10	Che	24GS	5y+ HcapCh(80K)	Bensalem 10-11[6/1]	fell in race won by Chief Dan George	R Thornton
15Mar10	Tau	17GF	4y+ HcapHdl(6K)	Saltagioo 11-4[15/2]	2nd of 11 2L behind Tiger O'toole	R Thornton
15Mar10	Str	16GF	4-6y NHF(3K)	Yukon Quest 11-4[6/1]	3rd of 14 5.75L behind Priceless Art	W Hutchinson
15Mar10	Tau	19GF	5y+ HcapCh(8K)	Topflight Wildbird 11-3[5/1]	4th of 11 17.50L behind Folie A Deux	R Thornton
15Mar10	Str	19GF	4-7y H(4K)	Sadler's Star 11-2[7/4f]	1st of 11 3 ½L to Appointment	W Hutchinson
15Mar10	Tau	17GF	4y H(6K)	Perception 10-10[14/1]	4th of 10 6.00L behind Halling Gal	R Thornton
14Mar10	War	29G	5y+ HcapCh(10K)	Trigger The Light 11-2[9/1]	2nd of 9 3 ¾L behind Fine By Me	Christian Williams
14Mar10	War	21G	4y+ HcapHdl(4K)	Ballamusic 11-4[12/1]	8th of 15 35.50L behind Willandrich	R Thornton
14Mar10	War	25G	4y+ H(4K)	Double Pride 11-9[9/4]	3rd of 9 12.00L behind Barafundle	R Thornton

[diamond1924]

Re: R Thornton needs sacking Spencer is 1 for 1, stick him on Bensalem next time. Stats are totally misleading. Hutchinson is a good jockey too so not arguing about him.

[w1nsome]

Re: R Thornton needs sacking R Thornton stats 2009/2010

	WINS	RUNS	%	2NDS	3RDS	4THS	WIN PRIZE	TOTAL PRIZE	£1 STAKE
NHF	4	52	8	12	10	1	£6,656.55	£22,280.82	-31.25
HURDLE	43	305	14	44	35	29	£227,660.88	£376,219.84	-73.25
CHASE	14	138	10	19	26	15	£84,530.94	£234,977.86	-71.56

------------------------------------------- W Hutchinson stats 2009/2010

	WINS	RUNS	%	2NDS	3RDS	4THS	WIN PRIZE	TOTAL PRIZE	£1 STAKE
NHF	6	34	18	1	4	5	£11,868.49	£14,003.67	+7.10
HURDLE	27	191	14	16	31	13	£133,926.75	£193,662.39	+71.72
CHASE	12	89	13	8	9	13	£73,027.10	£131,185.33	+16.36

--------------- So you all say Chocs riding o/k and is top 7 jockey--when the stables understudy jockey is outperforming him.--lol No disrepect intended towards Wayne as i rate him highly as a jockey,and fully deserves to have more mounts from King yard

[RuleBritannia]

Re: R Thornton needs sacking ANOTHER "let's slate a jockey thread" :eyes King has pretty much been out of form all season.... no need for the level of over-reaction here. Willie Mullins's horses have vastly under performed this season due to viral infections within the yard, injuries etc......... but he has still been sending the horses out, (about 80% fit most of the time), and Ruby Walsh/Paul Townend/Patirck Mullins are losing more than they are winning on his horses.... should they be sacked too? Hate "slate the jockey" threads....... Generally pocket talkers imo.....

[Irishbugger]

Re: R Thornton needs sacking

Hate "slate the jockey" threads....... Generally pocket talkers imo.....

Not true, I will always join in a bit of Jamie Spencer slating, but I don't even back horses he sits on so am not talking through my pocket, in fact I do well opposing horses purely because he's sitting on them. The guy has a fair point based on the stats above and backed it up by pinpointing 3 specific rides where he sees mistakes.

[Gingertipster]

Re: R Thornton needs sacking

Ginge thanks for your coments Lets start with Bensalems last 3 runs jan23rd hay--4 runner races--cantering in last place,turning into straight DiamondHarry really quickens pace going to 3rd last--Choc decides to barge between horses and in my view caused Bensalem to fall, as horse was a little distracted barging between runners. 13th feb newbury--3 horse race--again cantering in last place.the leader InchnadalyRock is continually jumping vilently out to right at each fence.What does Choc decide to do???chalenge on the outside going to the cross fence,when he had acre's of track to make the challenge on inside--result--demolished the fence and lucky to survive. 16th mar Chel--24 runners--always going well came to 2nd last with plenty of horse,Choc seemed to be searching for a stride,at that moment other jocks are commiting their horses became pretty tight and down he went. I believe there is a huge race in this horse and dont believe hes that bad a jumper--as long as he is not soured

Jan 23rd: What we have to remember is, not only are jockeys in the business of winning races on novices. They are also teaching them for the future. So coming in between horses is all part of that. Was contact made? Thought there was was plenty of room. Feb 13th: I backed him. You have a good point W1nsome, am sure if RT could go back he'd change things. Although did think Bensalem tended to hurdle his fences. Mar 16th: Backed him in this too. Don't know if you watched the RUK coverage? They showed a head on shot. Rt actually found a nice spot with enough room coming in to the fence. Then at the last moment Chief Dan George veered left, unsighting Bensalem. Think RT's ride was a good one, just unlucky. After early mistakes he got the horse jumping better the further they went, moving to the outside to get a better view. Unfortunately with so many horses in with a chance, he would've lost too much ground remaining on the outer. I too am convinced Bensalem will win a very good race, one of the best looking horses I saw all season. But does have jumping problems at the moment. :ok

[fintron]

Re: R Thornton needs sacking I dont think the problem with Bensalem is Choc, its the horse, he is a terrible jumper.

[Gingertipster]

Re: R Thornton needs sacking Think your list of rides gives a false impression (not your fault W1nsome). Choc had quite a lot of rides at Cheltenham which is always ultra competitive stuff. He was never likely to get many winners (if any). Also those Hutchinson winners were all at short prices. Average winners price of between 5/4 and 11/8. Choc's two winners average price is almost 100/30. Do agree Hutchinson is under rated by many punters. As such hismounts tend to go off at a bigger price than they should. Hence the profit. Where as Choc is a recognised top jock, so like most top jocks is often over-bet. Punters should remember, it is the horse's hooves on the ground, not a jockey's feet. When a punter recognises an under-rated jockey he can profit from it.:ok

[billy the punter]

Re: R Thornton needs sacking

When a punter recognises an under-rated jockey he can profit from it.:ok

Absolutely, but more so if he/she recognises an under-rated trainer or horse.