TheRat Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I've been on here a while and the main change in betting habits I have seen is people now bet on multiple selections a lot more. I can't really remember anyone doing it when I first joined (I'm probably wrong though) However, this has certainly become more popular now and wonder if people genuinely think it helps and has imporved their success? I personally have never done it. Always pick one fancy in a race, and if I like the look of a few I tend to stay away rather than bet as I think a few have a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fintron Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race I have done it for a while over the jumps. I just feel that with obstacles, all it takes is one bad jump from what is otherwise a solid selection, and it is game over, so rather than putting all the eggs in one basket with one pick, it is preferable to back several others as savers instead of going each-way on just one. On the flat it is something that has crept into my betting in the last few months and I think it is useful. I suppose a lot depends on how fancied the runners in the race are. If you really fancy a runner there is no need to back others, but if you only semi-fancy a particular horse you may feel its better to back both, when you are stuck between two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevet1859 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race I was looking back through my records over the past couple of days and the thing that hit me most was my long losing runs. They can be quite soul destroying, so I thought I would experiment with using savers in some handicaps during September. Bit of an insurance policy cum Brucie Bonus if the saver wins. Sometimes its hard to choose between two horses and whenever I try each way betting - they also finish just out the frame. I'll see how it goes............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race No winning punters back only one in a race. I back how I see fit, sometimes one in a race, other times two or more. It's something I've done for many a year. I know plenty of gamblers who refuse to back two in a race. A good mate of mine is a prime example, if he is with me he will ask who I fancy and I will tell him I'm backing two in a race, both 9/2 for example. Thats combined odds of 7/4 - he will not back them both, he will pick one of the two, usually the wrong one. Now what is wrong with having two running for you at 7/4? If I told him to back a 7/4 shot he would, is there a difference? Also he loves an E/W bet too, well an E/W bet is two bets, why not get into the habit of two win singles? I don't get why many punters are adverse to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuSimmy Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race I sometimes back two selections in a race, just depends how strongly I fancy a horse or a number of horses to win. Tend to do it in races with bigger fields and at the bigger meetings where horses are sometimes overpriced, always some nice each way prices available in big races at the likes of Ascot and Goodwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc75 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race I've started doing this more recently too and certainly noticed a big difference in winning bets. I use the same 10pts stake for each race but weight the split in favour of the shorter priced horse. eg if one horse is 2/1 and the other 4/1, it would split something like: 2/1: 6pts win 4/1: 4pts win so if either win my profit would be approx the same. Does this make sense? Has certainly helped me in the last few weeks anyway. My issue - an old favourite - trying not to bet on too many races (mainly through boredom and having money in my account). I am trying to target races where I see this kind of bet offering value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbugger Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race No winning punters back only one in a race. That's quite a statement. Untrue too. I very rarely back more than one horse in a race. I'm pretty sure many successful punters don't back multiples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race That's quite a statement. Untrue too. I very rarely back more than one horse in a race. I'm pretty sure many successful punters don't back multiples. You've just contradicted yourself. "I very rarely back more than one" Very rarely, so occasionally you do. I said no winning punter backs ONLY one in a race. Also a multiple is not backing more than one horse in a race. A multiple is something very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMarker Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race Having been in the trade for a while now, i've known of people who will back 5 or 6 in a race at times (Usually Win on 1 or 2 and e/w on the rest). To these people it is simply about profit, no matter how small. It's usually just before the off and the place terms seem to be 1/4 of the first 3 or 4. I have rarely backed more that one per race but is this habit more than anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race Having been in the trade for a while now, i've known of people who will back 5 or 6 in a race at times (Usually Win on 1 or 2 and e/w on the rest). To these people it is simply about profit, no matter how small. It's usually just before the off and the place terms seem to be 1/4 of the first 3 or 4. I have rarely backed more that one per race but is this habit more than anything else? This is what I'm getting at, a stubborn adversity to backing more than one is damaging to your punting. It's natural to back just one, especially when you're getting into racing, but you have to look at the idea of backing more in a race - if the situation dictates. Like I said earlier, every winning punter backs more than one in a race from time to time. :ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbugger Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race every winning punter backs more than one in a race from time to time. :ok That's only slightly reworded, but a very different statement to your initial one! + I used the term multiples meaning more than one in a race due to the title of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fintron Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race i agree, profit is profit, no matter how it is achieved. Going in mob handed on horses that have a realistic chance of winning weights the book in a punters favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race That's only slightly reworded' date= but a very different statement to your initial one! + I used the term multiples meaning more than one in a race due to the title of the thread. No it isn't different. Mate drop me out, I ain't got time for this boll*cks. Busy earning a living. Be lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMarker Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race If your backing one to win and one at a good eachway price then it won't do any harm to your pocket. It's simply backing on to win and one to place and if your good e/w wins well the profit should dwarf your stake on the winner... if you play it right. It's just a greater risk. But if you split your usual stake it's not gonna impact on your balance too much. I'm gonna try it on the next at Redcar. That should pay 1/4 of the first 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuSimmy Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race To be fair if you stake say 5pts per race and cannot for the sake of you split two horses that you fancy that are priced for example 7/1 and 9/1, so you go 1.25 pts e/w on them both or 2.5 pts to win you will obviously be glad if either win whereas if you force yourself to just choose one you would sick if the other one won so I don't see the problem in backing two in a race, even 3. I remember 1/2 weeks ago I had 3 main picks so decided to just back one for the win and do multiple forecasts and tricasts with all 3 of them, all 3 did come in 1st, 2nd and 3rd (check Simmy's thread in case anybody says after-eventing :P) so that paid of all well. Realistically I could and maybe should have backed all 3 to win as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylark2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race It's going to be down to personal choice and probably experience and on whether to bet on more than one horse in a race, but the tools are already out there to do so. Dutching, dutching E/W, backing and laying in the same race etc, there are many calculators and books available that could help punters achieve profitability by betting on more than one outcome in a horserace or sports event. I personally don't see it as a bad thing, after all my objectives from betting is to make a profit. I've bet on more than one horse in a race on many occasions to my benefit, and ended up with a reduced profit or zero liabilty as a result ( also to my detriment as well). It should simply be seen as being another tool that any discerning punter should or could use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster5000 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race I have improved with using a couple of selections in races 10 fold as the amounts of times i have picked one selection over the other and sods law the other will come is unbelievable so i think using two horses as possible savers is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted September 5, 2009 Author Share Posted September 5, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race I know why people do it and the benefits. I was more asking those who have changed their strategy how much it has actually helped. I know a few pwoplw have answered this With more people changing have their profits increased a lot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevet1859 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race I starting using a saver this month. I've been off work and putting more selections up so it seemed a good time to try it. As mentioned above my main problem was long losing runs. So I've been adding my secord or third choice as a 'saver'. Sods law of course three of the savers have won and no main selections. But the stangest thing is, it seems to have affected my whole mindset. I have become more conservative. Before I liked to go for it with decent priced horses, now with a saver I seem to be looking for two safe ones. It is definitely right to try and turn the odds in your favour. However, I'm already thinking of backing two horses but to my previous full staking system. More outlay - but should be shorter losing runs :hope. Better stick with this trial a bit longer though, probably be thinking different if one of my main bets had won!! Funny olde game.....:unsure Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM99 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race Here's another perspective from the other side of the table. Yes, generally happens at least once a day where there are two or more horses to lay in the same race. It is counterintuitive but if the horses come up that my methods have indicated have a good edge and they happen to be in the same race then I pull the trigger without a second thought. It is brilliant from a laying perspective: increase your profits 90% of the time, decrease your liability if one happens to win. You can't predict which horse will win any given race with 100% certainty - you just have to play the odds on each pick and trust in the Law of Large Numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingertipster Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race I share Billy's way of doing things. Often backing two (or more) in one race, sometimes using savers (bets to win back money you'd lose on the other bet / bets in a race). As he says, two bets at 9/2 are the same as one at 7/4. (if you know your percentages skip the next bit). 9/2 = true odds of 18.2%. You need to win 18.2% of your 9/2 bets to break even (level stakes). 7/4 = 36.4% (18.2 x 2 = 36.4). Or to put it another way: If you stake £2 on one 7/4 shot, you win £3.50. Staking £2 and getting a return of £5.50. If you stake £1 (£2 over all) on two 9/2 chances and one wins, you win £4.50 plus your £1 stake back (losing the other £1 bet). Again getting a return of £5.50 to your over all stake of £2 (2 x £1) a profit of £3.50. Therefore, backing two 9/2 shots is exactly the same as backing one 7/4 chance. However, It is possible to make a profit by backing just one horse in every race. In the example of a punter believing two 9/2 shots being value. It may be that one is thought a true 22% chance (3.8% better than 18.2%), and the other a 27% chance (8.8% better than 18.2%). I personally might back the “27%” horse and save on the “22%”. Some might back both to win the same amount. Some might back the 27% to win a larger amount than the 22%. Some punters may even decide to back only the one who they believe gives the best value (27%). Not bothering with the other less value bet and enabling a bigger bet on the greater value horse. None of the four ways is wrong, they all have their advantages and disadvantages. As long as a punter is correct in his form / value assessment, he will make a profit in the long run; however many horses he backs, one, two or five. It is not true that to be a successful punter you need to bet more than one horse some of the time. It is a matter of personal preference, and that is no bull. The big advantage in backing more than one horse in a race is confidence. Whether it is a saver bet, smaller bet or main bet; a winner keeps confidence up. Confidence is important because it can effect how a punter looks at a race. When looking back; I know in the past I have lost confidence after a losing run, making favourites the value bet when they should not be. Subconsciously because I know they have the best chance of winning (I want a winner), nothing to do with what should matter, VALUE. Other times I made outsiders value, subconsciously because I lose less money when backing them (smaller stakes). The advantage of backing only the best value bet is you often need to be less accurate. For example: With a horse a punter considers a 27% (true 11/4) chance that he backs at 9/2. 27% is 8.8% better than 18.2%, so he can often afford to be 6% wrong in calculations, and still make a good profit (in the long run). Where as if often 6% wrong with a 22% 9/2 shot, he is likely to lose in the long run. 22 - 6 = 16. A 16% strike rate of 9/2 shots will result in a loss (level stakes), whether this individual bet wins or loses. If a punter can maintain his confidence without betting two or more horses, and is an excellent judge, he may consider backing only the horse he believes gives best value. In reality, I don't think many punters are that good. Backing more than one horse in a race has certainly helped me, though I may be guilty of backing too many horses sometimes. Whichever way you do things, it does not stop you thinking “why didn't I put more on that”. Once at Newbury I had bets in three races. Despite having two individual winners at (from memory) 7/1 and 33/1, I made a deficit on the day. They were both little more than saver bets, losing more on the one race than the two wins combined. However, had I not “saved” there would be no wins from three, knowing I “picked the wrong one”. Rat (my fellow ginger), Since my first days on Punters Lounge, I have often backed many horses per race, but don't feel you have to do so. It is a matter of personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 Re: Betting on Multiple Horses in a Race Good post mate :ok Very interesting. Although I rarely bak a few in a race at the moment, what you have said is what I have been thinking It is almost like backing each way. If you think a horse has a great chance then by backing him/her EW then you are stopping a big loss by backing to place. I guess it is exactly the same as backing 2/3 horses for example to win you may be reducing the odds of having a winner in the race but obviously reducing the chances of making no return at better odds than 1/4 or 1/5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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