Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop?

[GeordieGaz]

OK a hand on the Mole's table from Blackpool which I found really interesting.. Blinds are 300/600 with a running ante of 50(i think) UTG raises to 2300, then UTG+2 re-raises to 6500. UTG has about 35k, UTG+2 has around 26k. UTG thinks for a while before passing showing :Qh: :Qd: Is this good play or sheer stupidity? I don't think I can even contemplate folding in this sitution, I'm either calling and seeing a flop or I'm re-raising (probably just flat calling in a big tourney like this tho). This may have been a great read and as a result a great fold but the other guy mucked his cards therefore not sure what he had.

[GeordieGaz]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop? Also, following on from the above another similar situation which occurred in Blackpool was the following: Not sure of the blind levels and chip stacks but it was early on and involved WASP so I'm sure he'll give a more detailed version of the hand. Mid postion min raises the blinds and WASP min-raises back with AA and the guy folds showing QQ! :loon Needless to say Bri was fuming!! :lol

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop? I think ANYONE who can fold QQ pre-flop is destined for the very top :loon

[GeordieGaz]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop?

I think ANYONE who can fold QQ pre-flop is destined for the very top :loon

Really? I've folded QQ a few times i.e. when it has went raise, re-raise, re-re-raise! However, in the situation outlined in the first post, I don't particularly think it's a good fold. Surely he can at least call!??! :unsure

[GeordieGaz]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop? this is how you should play QQ... **** Hand 1322722130 ***** 100.00/200.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - Sunday, November 16, 2008 1:22:39 AM €3,000 GUARANTEED (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: Kafumbeiro (14527.00) Seat 2: Geordigaz3 (6812.00) Seat 3: Unknown (0.00) Seat 4: YesItIs1 (3572.00) Seat 5: dragone777 (4894.00) Seat 6: BLING5 (700.00) Seat 7: G-MAN-UK (6495.00) Seat 8: Mr.Qno (2613.00) Seat 9: samp1 (19965.00) Seat 10: Unknown (0.00) Kafumbeiro post SB 100.00 Geordigaz3 post BB 200.00 ** Deal ** Kafumbeiro [N/A, N/A] Geordigaz3 [:As:, :Ac:] YesItIs1 [N/A, N/A] dragone777 [N/A, N/A] BLING5 [N/A, N/A] G-MAN-UK [N/A, N/A] Mr.Qno [N/A, N/A] samp1 [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** YesItIs1 Fold dragone777 Call 200.00 BLING5 Fold G-MAN-UK Raise to 600.00 Mr.Qno Fold samp1 Fold Kafumbeiro Fold Geordigaz3 Raise to 2100.00 dragone777 Fold G-MAN-UK All-in 6495.00 Geordigaz3 Call 6495.00 *** Flop(Board): *** : [:2s:, :Qd:, :6s:] *** Turn(Board): *** : [2s, Qd, 6s, :3h:] *** River(Board): *** : [2s, Qd, 6s, 3h, :9s:] *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 13490.00 Kafumbeiro Fold Win: 0.00 Geordigaz3 [:As:, :Ac:] Pair of aces Win: 0.00 YesItIs1 Fold Win: 0.00 dragone777 Fold Win: 0.00 BLING5 Fold Win: 0.00 G-MAN-UK [:Qc:, :Qh:] Three of a kind, queens Win: 13490.00 Mr.Qno Fold Win: 0.00 samp1 Fold Win: 0.00

[AJ]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop? It's ahard fold, but most likely +EV Sometimes you'll be behind to AA or KK, other times, you'll race against AK, sometimes you'll be ahead to JJ. Not many other hands would nmake the call. Good fold

[pokerlife]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop? If i'm deep in cash games online and i get 3bet from an early position opponent i almost always fold queens.i'd need special circumstances to make the call. As in 1st 2nd or 3rd pos standard raise i reraise 2/3pot or more and he puts in a third big raise, those queens just go in the muck, he almost certainly has aces or kings(and aces far more likely).

[GeordieGaz]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop?

OK a hand on the Mole's table from Blackpool which I found really interesting.. Blinds are 300/600 with a running ante of 50(i think) UTG raises to 2300, then UTG+2 re-raises to 6500. UTG has about 35k, UTG+2 has around 26k. UTG thinks for a while before passing showing :Qh: :Qd:

Maybe this was a great read as the player in question (guy johnson) went onto make the final table and finished 8th and this is how he went out.. :loon

Guy Johnson makes it 36k, Zach made it 100k and Guy called Flop was Guy moves all in for about 200k and Zach insta-called. Guy had Zach had Turn River And we lose Guy Johnson in 8th place and he gets £10,250! Zach Ford upto 950k!

[GaF]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop? I'd imagine the stacks (to blinds) were very different on the final table - with most short stacked M it is virtually impossible to fold QQ (and be making a good decision). Deep stacked is a completely different kettle of fish.

[GeordieGaz]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop?

I'd imagine the stacks (to blinds) were very different on the final table - with most short stacked M it is virtually impossible to fold QQ (and be making a good decision). Deep stacked is a completely different kettle of fish.

oh yea i knw tht..... tis just ironic that he went out in that way!!

[billy the punter]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop?

OK a hand on the Mole's table from Blackpool which I found really interesting.. Blinds are 300/600 with a running ante of 50(i think) UTG raises to 2300, then UTG+2 re-raises to 6500. UTG has about 35k, UTG+2 has around 26k. UTG thinks for a while before passing showing :Qh: :Qd: Is this good play or sheer stupidity? I don't think I can even contemplate folding in this sitution, I'm either calling and seeing a flop or I'm re-raising (probably just flat calling in a big tourney like this tho). This may have been a great read and as a result a great fold but the other guy mucked his cards therefore not sure what he had.

I don't think there is no real answer for this. I definitely don't think it's a bad play. A lot would decide of previous history. Without any it's a marginal decision. He is out of position remember so I don't think a fold is that bad. What's he beating? I may fold in this spot, he is in good position chip wise so no need to play big pots with marginal hands. If either player has been playing tight then it's an easy fold. It's never nice to pass big hands preflop but you have to. The call is fine if you're trying to hit trips - we are talking fairly deep here. Cash game with deep stacks its a definite call. But what happens in this toun sitation and there is a low flop? :eek The real question is have you ever passed KK pre-flop? :ok

[GeordieGaz]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop?

He is out of position remember so I don't think a fold is that bad. What's he beating?

88, 99, 1010, JJ, AK, AQ, AJ,

If either player has been playing tight then it's an easy fold.

i don't thinking folding QQ pre-flop is ever easy :unsure

The real question is have you ever passed KK pre-flop?

don't think i ever have :\

[Punto Banco]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop?

The real question is have you ever passed KK pre-flop? :ok

Problem is if you are talking about KK is that for the most part AA will be pushed hard preflop/flop or played deceptively in which case you would find it difficult to identify the hand (with a reasonable enough accuracy that it would make it + expectation to lay the hand)... KK is a different Kettle, with QQ you are really not wanting 3 hands AA,KK and AK 28 combinations from 1326 compared to wanting to dodge AA 6/1326. In any case with these Stacks I could not be folding KK... QQ in the right circumstances (Most of which outlined).... Sure....:ok

[billy the punter]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop? Actually GG, it's not an "easy fold", I talking rubbish there. But if either player is playing tight then it's a fold for me. It's what the 4000 odd chips leads to after isn't it? (I think I reraise is more like to be AA KK AK than 88, 99 or AQ - that is my worry, all are possible but nightmare hands (for QQ) are more likely) Folding KK preflop requires definite previous history between the players, and plenty of it. I agree in this situation KK cannot be passed. It's just one of those questions that always gets asked. I've even passed AA preflop once - and I ain't lying! :lol

[GeordieGaz]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop?

I've even passed AA preflop once - and I ain't lying! :lol

WOW - really? :loon must have been in a cooler or summit? the way I've been running lately I've really felt like folding AA pre :\

[billy the punter]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop?

WOW - really? :loon must have been in a cooler or summit? the way I've been running lately I've really felt like folding AA pre :\

It was in a Satellite, on the bubble. I was probably a 1/100 shot to win a seat if I pass them. If I played them there was a chance I could still bubble. It had to be the only time it's correct to do so. And it makes a good story. :D

[BAM]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop?

Also, following on from the above another similar situation which occurred in Blackpool was the following: Not sure of the blind levels and chip stacks but it was early on and involved WASP so I'm sure he'll give a more detailed version of the hand. Mid postion min raises the blinds and WASP min-raises back with AA and the guy folds showing QQ! :loon Needless to say Bri was fuming!! :lol

Yep it was Paul Parker who is obviously a good player but not that good ;) the blinds were 150/300 and he raised to 1200 and left him 5000 ish behind. I didn't min raise I stuck 3k in and the reason I did this because a few hands previous I reraised someone with 3k and they passed and I showed shit. I thought with his stack he would have stuck them all in after my raise as the blinds were due up to 200/400 25a very soon but maybe he's a far better player than me?

[AJ]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop?

It was in a Satellite, on the bubble. I was probably a 1/100 shot to win a seat if I pass them. If I played them there was a chance I could still bubble. It had to be the only time it's correct to do so. And it makes a good story. :D

Happens quite often in the Cooler / Double or nothing games that are popular just now. Medium stacked at the bubble, AA is a an easy fold. Does feel strange though.

[george2loose]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop? It's all player dependant- if the you're confident that the re raiser's range is beating you or at very best racing then folding is fine. The other factor is your perceived edge of the field. Sometimes u fold cos you feel you can find better spots later. The only thing I don't like is the fact he is showing he is prepared to fold QQ there- why give up that info?

[SteveO]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop? A situation came up in Blackpool with blinds at 100/200 Stack around 10k where I rasied UTG with QQ to 600 and get reraised by Pras Bansi to 1800 on the button. Now I know Pras could be reraising me with a very wide range here but I don't want to go broke with QQ either just yet. He hasn't been overly agreesive yet so I elect to just flat call, The flop couldn't have came any worse AcKcx,but I have the Qc for teh nut flush draw. I check with the intention of reraising him allin but he bets the pot leaving himself with about 5k so I'm sure he has at least an ace and don't want to race him with my flush draw and I weakly fold. He later tells me he had Qh8h.

[sugleh]

Re: Folding Pocket Queens pre-flop? It will always be very difficult to fold QQ preflop. You'd have to be pretty deepstacked to do so. Most of the times in tournaments that's not the case. Perhaps during the first few levels... Taking a flop can be very difficult, as it is with JJ. So likely an overcard will flop...