morlspin Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Anyone else had one of these? For the attention of - Graeme Morl Hi We’re just dropping you a quick note to advise you of a change in our procedures. On your NEXT withdrawal request from Virgin Poker we will need to ask you to confirm some details to us. This is as a result of a revision in the Anti-Money laundering regulations; we are now required to verify the identity of all players whose accumulated withdrawals exceed €2,300. We have identified your account as likely to meet this requirement in the near future and would like to take this opportunity to give you advance notice of the change. Our partner WebDollar, on your next withdrawal request, will be asking for documentation from you confirming your name, residency and date of birth. This could be a copy of the photo page of your passport or photo driving licence and copy of a recent utility bill/bank statement showing your address. Unfortunately, until these documents have been received, WebDollar will be unable to process your request. They are happy to advise you as to what types of documents will be OK and where you should send them. I know this seems like a bore – for which we are sorry – but it is something that we have to do as a condition of our Malta licence. If you have any questions or concerns about this, please do feel free to contact me at any time. Best wishes, Christina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavham Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals Yes i have already done this its no problem at all, just scan your passport and utility bil and send it off, then its business as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals Good of them to warn you before you try to withdraw, BTW. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quiet Man Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals I got the same e-mail a few weeks back! Haven't got round to dealing with it yet....lazy bassa that I am!:ok TQM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heniek31 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals Same here. I requested a withdraw today and was asked for proofs by email. Sent it and after 2 hrs recieved email saying its all cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlin Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals I’m a virgin media customer and I also occasionally play on Virgin Poker. Virgin Media did not require me to send such sensitive information to them before they started billing me. Not surprisingly, neither did Virgin Poker require it before I handed my money over, into their trust. So, why would Virgin Poker need such sensitive information from me, before they would return my money to me? That is money that is rightfully mine. Oh , that’s right , it is because they are based in Malta and that is the new requirement there. How very convenient. It’s no wonder at all then, that Branson can afford his own Island, with a scam like that going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals Where is the scam in this? :unsure Do a search on PL, let alone Google and you will see this is becoming more and more of an industry standard with bookies and poker sites. I'm not 100% up on ID fraud, but if these steps help combat it, then whats the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlin Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals I'm not being funny Mr V, but it seems that you cannot see what is really going on here. Why are they authorised to debit my money (totally without those, supposedly, vital checks), but not allowed to credit my money back to me? Something does not add up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friskyfitz Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals I'm not being funny Mr V, but it seems that you cannot see what is really going on here. Why are they authorised to debit my money (totally without those, supposedly, vital checks), but not allowed to credit my money back to me? Something does not add up here. You missed the point - MONEY LAUNDERING regulations - This is very common now and all above board TBH. If I deposited £5k and lost it all to YOU, Then that would look really dodgy. If you withdrew it all within moments of the final payment, That would look dodgy too.... Only ones who would really frown upon this are those with MULTIPLE accounts or those who are under-age or breaking the rules for their own benefit... No probs here for me. P.S - Book into my B+B and I'll ask you for your CC number, CCV2 number and name as it appears on card, then I'll take your address and phone number.....otherwise - Find somewhere else (Not much choice at the rates we have) Id be more afraid of this TBH :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlin Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals No. Not at all. You have missed the point. Any real regulation should start from the point of deposit. Suggesting that it should start from the the point of return just displays the almost complete corruption of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals Sorry Marlin, its just that its not new - I'm pretty certain that I had a whinge about it some time way back in that 12,000 odd posts, but I've had that request made of me several times and the more I've thought about it, and the more 'virtual' cash I've had, the happier I am that they are making these checks. If you or I ever lost money to a hacker through a poker site/bookie that didn't do these checks we'd be furious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals Any real regulation should start from the point of deposit. Suggesting that it should start from the the point of return just displays the almost complete corruption of the system. Ahhh.... I see what you're getting at and I've read that argument before. I just don't have the answer at hand although I'm sure I saw a reasonable answer somewhere. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friskyfitz Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals Think of it like ASDA (Bookmakers are just shops in essence). You go to ASDA and spend £15 on your card. Do you want to go through all the paperwork ??? Then ASDA refund your card with £1,498.22.... Wouldn't that look odd ?? Why should it be at point of deposit ? That would just mean that EVERY single debit/credit card transaction would be delayed worldwide and would make no sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals No. Not at all. You have missed the point. Any real regulation should start from the point of deposit. Suggesting that it should start from the the point of return just displays the almost complete corruption of the system. According to the email Virgin sent, they're only required to verify your identity if you make accumulated withdrawals of €2300. So they probably have many customers who never have to send them documents. If they warn you before you try to withdraw that you'll have to send them these documents (as Virgin have done), then it's clearly more convenient for the customer if they only ask for the documents before a withdrawal. Also, if any poker site decided not to accept deposits without this kind of documentation, then they'd lose a huge amount of custom, as many people would just go somewhere else instead where they could start playing immediately. So unless all poker sites were required to do it, then I don't think you can really blame any one site for not doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals Worth pointing out that just because the word "virgin" is in the company name, doesn't mean it's part of the same company. The virgin group isn't a company in anything like the traditional sense. It's a series of joint ventures that Branson has some form of shareholding in, and he allows them to use the brand. As an example he owns 51% of the airline, but 0% of virgin music. The poker and the isps are majority owned by someone else (different people in each case). but to get back to the main point, doyles room made me do this two years ago, it's very common, it's there for my protection. I can't grasp why anyone would have an issue with this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals Sorry I just cant get how it is there for your protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals it stops people from stealing your money with a fake withdrawl request Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals But if you can only withdraw to the method deposited how can theft occur? I'm a lot more worried that some one could use my card with no checks and then dump money on some one else. I wouldnt mind this procedure so much if it wasnt for the fact that after you make your claim, rather than holding your money, they return it to you allowing you to gamble it untill you can prove the withdrawal. The casino rewards group used this method and it had nothing to do with money laundering, they wanted you to have a cooling of period in the hope you would change your mind and gamble the money again. Or you simpy couldnt be bothered with the time involved to confirm identity that you would try and make a big enough win to justify the claim. I know some one who deposited $40,000 to an online casino over a matter of weeks then lost it before getting back up to $40,000 again which he could not withdraw untill the docs had been sent, resent, filed, lost, checked and signed by the Arcbishop of Cantabury's third cousin twice removed. It was just one big con by some money grabbing XXXXXXX's For the record I think Virgin have handled this perfectly and the initial email sounds like it was written by one of us, to one of us and understands why joe public hates this kind of paperwork. And I have no doubt that they have to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlin Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals I am somewhat reluctant to post further on this subject; because it may well be that some are not quite as aware as others, as to what might actually might be going on here. I’m certainly not trying to rattle anyone’s cage. However, for some reason I cannot help myself. There is absolutely no malice in it. If I can put my concern’s over very basically. They are, that there is no upside at all for the genuine customer, in this supposed regulation. The best that the genuine customer can hope to obtain, in this situation, is the money that they are rightfully entitled to. There is no real upside for them, because they are only entitled to, exactly, what they are entitled to. Critically however, there is a potential downside. The best that the opposite side of the equation ( i.e. the poker site, regulatory authority, or the government that created it ) can hope for, is that the customer cannot satisfy the regulatory requirements and hence their money is forfeited. Where does that money end up? Who does it go to? Who does it benefit? The true difference is, that there are no negatives at all for the opposite part of this equation, because it is the customer that shoulders all of the risk. Right from the moment of deposit.That is why the regulation should start there or better yet, well before it.. Sending such sensitive documentation away (which could be used for identity theft), to the supposed authority, merely increases the risk to the customer even more. What a surprise then, that the real risk in this particular regulation is directed only toward the customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friskyfitz Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals :sad:sad:sad My god!!! We are the BETFAIR forum...... Marlin.. If the sun shines, does that mean that half the world is in darkness ??? :eek:eek:eek:eek There is NO issue here, I.D proofing is for your OWN good - If you dont think so then its time to get out... Much better chance you'll get ripped off at a petrol station or on a foreign holiday...... If a customer cannot satisfy requiements then thats their own TOUGH SH1T.... They are wrong! :eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals There is NO issue here, I.D proofing is for your OWN good - If you dont think so then its time to get out... ! :eyes Go on then explain why? Cant be that hard if there is no issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapman Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Re: Virgin wanting ID proof before withdrawals By requesting you send the required documents over they can verify that you are who you say you are, for a start you have to be of certain age to play/gamble, underage people can easily add a couple of years in the D.O.B section, your ID confirms you are indeed old enough. Also, as unfortunate as it may be, there are people in this world who could potentially come across your name and attempt to use it for illegal activities, I'm sure you would be delighted to have the police knock on the front door and arrest you for something you have no clue about, if a poker room is having X amount of £'s being moved around in whatever illegal way and the culprit is found to be someone who's ID was never verified, that's going to look extremely bad for the poker room and yourself when you face prison time for something you know nothing about. Most poker rooms are established and respected, if you don't trust a poker room enough to send over your ID and feel it will end up in the wrong hands, don't use them, otherwise it can only be assumed that you intend to indulge in things you should not be, I hope that makes sense. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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