GeordieGaz Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 OK the state of play was this... It was the last night of the Pokerkings league and Franki77 was top of the leaderboard going into the final game. We are now down to the final table with 7 players left. Steveo has a chance of taking top spot for the month if he wins this game and Franki77 gets knocked out before 5th. Then this happened.... ***** Hand 1061765764 ***** 100.00/200.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 30 April 2008 22:29:32 Poker League (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: FerryF50 (2413.00) Seat 3: Geordigaz3 (9609.00) Seat 4: fränki77 (870.00) Seat 5: rolexralle (1841.00) Seat 6: PLdobbin (3424.00) Seat 7: PLSteveO (4035.00) Seat 9: lunoc (3133.00) Geordigaz3 post SB 100.00 fränki77 post BB 200.00 ** Deal ** FerryF50 [N/A, N/A] Geordigaz3 [2h, 3d] fränki77 [N/A, N/A] rolexralle [N/A, N/A] PLdobbin [N/A, N/A] PLSteveO [N/A, N/A] lunoc [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** rolexralle Fold PLdobbin Fold PLSteveO Fold lunoc Raise to 400.00 FerryF50 Fold Geordigaz3 Fold fränki77 All-in 870.00 lunoc Fold *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 1075.00 FerryF50 Fold Win: 0.00 Geordigaz3 Fold Win: 0.00 fränki77 By default Win: 1075.00 rolexralle Fold Win: 0.00 PLdobbin Fold Win: 0.00 PLSteveO Fold Win: 0.00 lunoc Fold Win: 0.00 What do we all think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? My opinion is that this was chip dumping... lunoc has put 400 chips in already and only needs to put another 400 in to call Franki! Surely even if he has 7 2 off then he has to call?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? At best it is very bad play. I would report it to Pokerkings for investigation - they can see what hand he had which will give a better indication if it is bad play or dumping. They can also investigate previous hands between these two players. My suspicion is that it's more likely to be bad play than dumping :unsure It's often very easy to see dumping that isnt there..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? I believe Steveo has already reported it to Pokerkings but as yet has had no reply from them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? Yeah I reported it Gaf. I was going to let it go and give him the benefit of doubt, but I thought if a PL'er did it I would be very pissed off and so I did. I haven't heard a reply from PK but the players involved haven't been seen in the Pk league for several games now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? Aye it's either very bad play or dumping. What i'll say is think of the scenario if Lunoc was in the BB and franki had gone AI so it was 470 to call. The standard play is to call with any 2. But i know that i used to hate calling in these situations with something like 8,6 and would sometimes fold. I imagine there are tonnes of people out there who do still fold 8,6 or whatever and it's quite possible Lunoc simply had a poor hand and didn't want to call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioArca Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? Looks a bit sus, but without knowing his cards it could be a hero fold or a misclick! Pot is laying around 3 - 1 and he could be at worst a 4.5 -1 dog. Two random cards against AA would be slightly more than 4-1, so assuming he was making a complete stab at it with 72o then fold might have been the best option. But then again he must have known the BB was likely to shove with any two cards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? If he'd raised to 800 and folded for the other 70 we would have the "smoking gun" so to speak. But it will be hard to prove unless the site looks into it and finds more suspicious patterns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? You cannot put the short stack on AA - he has a very wide range.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? it may well be worth mentioning that Franki77 had been extremely tight as he is trying to get as many points as possible. The only hand I had seen him go in with was with AA (funnily enough that was against my AJs). So maybe lunoc was putting him on a monster? even then though in my opinion I'm still calling the extra 400/500! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? I was watching at the time and my initial reaction was one of collusion in favour of a fellow German. However, lunoc might just have been feeling iffy about putting in a further 470 of his remaining 2733 chips. If he'd called with 8 3 and lost to a better starting hand, would we also have accused him of collusion? Quite possibly. I'm more interested in your later statment that, "... the players involved haven't been seen in the Pk league for several games now." I find this strange as, in franki's position, I would have been back to win more money in a format that I had done well in. And it got me thinking .... I haven't noticed the previous month's German winner, as23 (or something like that). Has he/she been back to the league since then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? AS23 said that he wouldn't be playing during April as he's busy with other matters, exams I think he said. Frank had the best overall record in the competition results wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? When i look at the stack sizes, the number of players left and the way Franki has played over the last few months, i honestly feel that Lunoc has attempted a steal, which went wrong. If he calls and loses, hes in the mire with the short stacks and dosent really have to call does he...... Just my gut instinct on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? If he calls and loses he's on 2266 instead of 2733. For 470 more chips he can win a total pot of 2040. Nearly 3.5/1 and unless he knows absolutely nothing about odds he has to call with any 2 cards. It's very doubtful he's min raising with a hand as bad as72 but even if he was and up against ak he's only roughly 2/1 underdog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? I can see it from both sides mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? I can see it from both sides mate After your pokerstars thread and that post your asking for your blinds to be stolen(or is that the plan) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Re: Is this collusion/Chip Dumping? After your pokerstars thread and that post your asking for your blinds to be stolen(or is that the plan) thats the plan ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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