edtkh Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Re: Euro 2004 play-offs kojic, that's not a fair comparison. Would you honestly think Switzerland are a much stronger outfit than Ireland too? If you were honest enough, you'd probably admit Ireland underperformed - for one reason or another - massively this time around and that is no basis to use their defeat against Russia to argue for its case that Wales is weaker than Russia(which is probably true, but certainly not to the extent some people are suggesting) simply because Wales are worse than Ireland and the Irish lost to Russia. ;) Football isn't maths - I don't see how you could make deductions from Ireland's Euro 2004 qualifier results to reflect the true quality of a side, while blatantly disregarding the efforts of the side which made Japan-Korea barely a year and a half ago with more or less the same squad. :p What really puzzles me is how people could start hailing the influence of people like Karpin, Onopko and Mostovoi just because of Russia's recent rejuvenated form when it seems that the blunt and cruel fact is these catalysts whom people are heralding as the key men who would make a difference to the Russian cause this time were the same lot who performed miserably at USA'94, Euro'96 and Japan-Korea'02 and were also chief architects of the Russian's unsuccessful attempts to qualify for major tournaments in 1998 and 2000. Surely, they haven't become the world beaters that you guys are making them out to be just because Russia have had a slightly better qualifying campaign(aided by an easy group) this time, are they? :p Let's set this record straight : I'm not saying Wales is categorically a better team than Russia, but the Russians are definitely not a notch above the Welsh like some people are suggesting at the moment. :p Now then, would 1.44 still look tempting for a side which is nowhere remotely near as convincing as others(when you consider Croatia are 1.61, Holland are 1.66-1.72, Turkey 1.72) who are available for something more? You draw your own conclusions. :rolleyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stebed Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 minnows Did that make Turkey minnows when they qualified for the previous world cup as they had no tournament experience? or S&M for that matter. I would prefer to think of both nations as developing football countries rather than minnows. Savage IMO is the type of player that ALL clubs need - I have watched Nicky Butt current England international for approx 9/10 years and he still cannot pass a football or take anyone on. There is not a great deal of difference in both players. Also watched Savage for two years as a highly rated centre forward in 91-93 approx and had decent ability, I just think he plays to his strengths and is very good at what he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kojic2003 Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Re: Euro 2004 play-offs Football isn't maths I didn't say that! ;) I saw Wales against S&M in Belgrade and they haven't chance against players with great tehnique like Mostovoi,Titov and Alenichev. I'm not saying Wales is categorically a better team than Russia, but the Russians are definitely not a notch above the Welsh like some people are suggesting at the moment. You are saying nonsense! :) Maybe Russia can't win EURO2004,but it's not important here.It's about Wales and Russia,and Russia has big advantage at the moment.For God's sake,almost all Russian players are playing CL,and on the other hand Wales is with many players from lower English Divisions(Wigan,Crewe,Grimsby,WBA,Northampton,...). Wales has the chance,but in the rematch,not here.Without Bellamy and Davies,their chances are very low! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maroon Heaven Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Re: Euro 2004 play-offs If I was to say this. Whow would you take over Cardiff City against York city in a two-legged match, with Cardiff at home in the First match, of which the winners would play in the FA cup final. I say that because Russia is in 26th position in the Fifa rankings and Wales are in 58th. If you equate that to the English league you get Cardiff and York. Personnally I have taken Russia at 4/6 in my local bookies and waid in with £300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MersonthePerson Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Croatia v Slovenia Kogic.....continued from the other board... I respect your better understanding of the above teams, in my humble opinion I see two teams of similiar technical ability, who will play a match in which I am sure the result will be very tight. I think one goal could settle it, in this case it seems to me that offering 4-1 for Slovenia is quite generous. I am just playing the numbers..... Where do you think the vaule is in the qualifiers, agaianst Scotland and Wales?? I think the odds here in britain make that bet attractive. Holland at 4/6 and Russia at 4/9 would make an interesteing Double, The thing is, both these sets of lads, are always capapble of pulling of a shock, but then again, Wales in Russia??? Only if the Gambling syndicates, get involved as they did with Russia v Ukraine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edtkh Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Wales kojic, you're really talking pants mate(or you've got a pretty selective memory :lol ). You're digressing further and further from the bread and butter of this debate. :p First, you brought in Ireland and used it as a yardstick to portray the supposed difference in class between Russia and Wales. Now, you're telling me many Russian players play in CL just because almost everyone plays for Locomotive Moscow(with the exception of Karpin, Sytchev and Mostovoi, I believe the whole bloody lot who play CL football come from Locomotive! 8) )! What's the logic there? Try naming me 3/4 the Russian squad without searching the web for their names since they're so famous...or maybe you could explain Mostovoi and Karpin's influence during the late 90's when they underwent a pretty abysmal period(not to mention their never-ending merry-go-round of managers)? I've already said that the weather and the crippling injury crisis would hand an advantage to Russia in the first leg, but quite simply I won't back Russia at such short odds simply because I don't think the gulf in class between the sides is what you make it out to be. :| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest qlpol Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Russia I can't follow this debate anymore, if you read it in an objective way there are some people that make Russia into a world class side :rolleyes Get back to reality, Russian football isn't no more what i used to be. Russia is a very very mediocre team in Europe, and I think the big mistake here made by many is that they keep on looking at names instead of results. Ofcourse Karpin, Mostovoi and others are good players but what is it worth when there's no team on the pitch, no mentality? That is the reason of the poor Russian results... Just look at the dutch squad, they have the same problems! ;) In my humble opinion Wales can't match Russia on a technical level, but they compensate that with their mentality and workrate. That's why i say again I would rather go for a Croatian victory against better odds and leave this game alone!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kojic2003 Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Re: Wales You forgot to add Alenichev! ;) It's not the point are they playing in Lokomotiv or somewhere else.The fact is that Russian players are playing in much higher level than EngDiv is. Look edkth,I don't care will you back Russia or not! :\ Everybody who saw performances of Wales lately,knows who has the advantage here.Good luck to you and Wales. I see two teams of similiar technical ability, who will play a match in which I am sure the result will be very tight. I think one goal could settle it, in this case it seems to me that offering 4-1 for Slovenia is quite generous. There is no chance that Slovenia can win.Like I said,maybe they can take a draw,but they are not so strong as you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kojic2003 Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Re: Wales there are some people that make Russia into a world class side Nobody didn't say that Russia is a world class.We are talking about this match and Russia is simply better team than Wales,who is without Bellamy and Davies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maroon Heaven Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Re: Russia and I think the big mistake here made by many is that they keep on looking at names instead of results.Shot yourself in the foot there my man. If you look at results Russia have being one of the most consistant teams at home while the Welsh have fallen off their roller coaster. Look at results. That is funny :rollin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest qlpol Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Russia Maroon heaven, the thing you're reffering too is called FORM, not results.... Also important ofcourse, but what i mean is that with all the so calles "BIG" names Russia has in their squad, they failed to get good results over the past few years. Looking at recent results in the qualifying campaign Russia had victories over Ireland and Switserland while Wales defeated Finland and Italy. Seems equal to me not :) I have to repeat myself again cuz you pro-Russians won't understand properly :) I don't say Russia will not win, they have a decent chance but the risk is higher then in Croatia-Slovenia where you can get better odds... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IIBROX Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Patriotism and Money !!!! No such thing Hi i have just found this site and it looks really useful so i thought i would give my tuppence worth on betting and being a patriot. This saturday i will be lumping on Holland to beat Scotland and anyone else out there who thinks we have a chance must be living in cloud cuckoo land. We are woeful and a decent team that plays football (the dutch) will destroy us in days of yore we used to say we had a chance against teams that were better than us but at least then we had some decent solid players not now we are terrible so when it comes to money i'm afraid the wallet will outweigh the heart anytime. I may even be tempted to add Holland into a double with Russia and maybe a treble with Croatia but i just found out that croatia have a couple of injuries and a suspension and slovenia welcome back a couple of their stars. Will wait n see about the treble perhaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kojic2003 Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Re: Croatia - Slovenia CROATIA - SLOVENIA(15.11.2003. :: 17:30CET) I have 1.65 for home win and my money will be there.Croatia has to make advantage before the rematch and they will do it,because they are much better team at the moment.Slovenia can be dagerous,but I really can't see any surprise here.Croatia has some problems,because Rapaic is injured,but he will play tomorrow.Croatian striker Dado Prso(Monaco) is in superb form and he could be a man who will decide the match.Croatia didn't lose at home around 9 years(if I'm not wrong) and they have excelent H2H with Slovenia(w4-d2-l0,11:5): 1991. Murska Sobota(Friendly): Slovenija - Hrvatska 0:1 1995. Zagreb(Euro 96 Qualifications): Hrvatska Slovenija 2:0 1995. Ljubljana(Euro 96 Qualifications): Slovenija - Hrvatska 1:2 1997. Split(WC98 Qualifications): Hrvatska - Slovenija 3:3 1997. Ljubljana(WC98 Qualifications): Slovenija - Hrvatska 1:3 2002. Zagreb(Friendly): Hrvatska - Slovenija 0:0 Good Luck! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edtkh Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Re: Croatia - Slovenia I didn't forget to add Alenichev - I don't even think he's anywhere remotely as important to the Mostovois and Karpins and that's not saying the latter duo are world-beaters! :lol And kojic, if your arguement held true, Italy, England and Spain would be winning every bloody tournament they partook in since their leagues are unquestionably of the highest calibre in Europe - funny how the French, Brazilians, Germans, Argentinians have such good international pedigree then! :p As I'd already previously pointed out, there's no way I'm touching Russia(if anything, I'm on Wales on the handicap for the value more than anything) at the ridiculous odds on offer when there're much better odds around the other 4 matches which offer far greater security IMO. The Dutch are priced at 1.66-1.72(and it really doesn't bother me if some choose to be blinded by Scotland's 'impressive' 1-1 draw with WC finalist Germany recently because quite simply they're a notch above the Scots), the Turks(who won every game home and away in qualifying bar the two against England) are 1.72 away to newcomers Latvia and Croatia(which is already inconsistent enough without mentioning Russia) at 1.61 to beat Slovenia. Talking about gulf in class, I'd need some lessons on being made to understand the gulf between Russia and Wales is greater than that between Holland and Scotland or Latvia and Turkey! :b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest westcoast Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Re: Croatia - Slovenia kojic,i must agree i fancy croatia even with the absentees,But my only bet of the weekend will be Russia/Wales over 2.5 goals,Russia scored 15 at home in qualifying but also conceded in every game,Wales are weak at the back.MH as been going on all week about the importance of an away goal so i am sure they will attack the vulnerable russian defence.We have 2 teams that are far better going forward than defending.Have you any news who you think will be starting up front for the russians? Dimitry Bulykin looks a class act and i would`nt mind a small "interest"bet on him to score first if he starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kojic2003 Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Re: Euro 2004 play-offs And kojic, if your arguement held true, Italy, England and Spain would be winning every bloody tournament they partook in since their leagues are unquestionably of the highest calibre in Europe - funny how the French, Brazilians, Germans, Argentinians have such good international pedigree then! You are some funny guy,aren't you!? :lol What the hell are you talking about? >D Why are you mentioning Germans,French,...?Are we talking about some other sports? :lol For God's sake,I said that many Welsh players play in English lower divisions and if you can't see difference between Premier League and First Division or let's say 1.Bundesliga and 2.Bundesliga,...,than I don't know what to say!? :\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edtkh Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Re: Euro 2004 play-offs Funny? you probably don't even know what you're going on about which is why you find my statements amusing! :p It was you who pointed to the difference in class between the 2 sides by insinuating the gulf was as wide as the CL and English lower leagues since most of Wales' players play for the English lower league teams while most Russians play in CL. What rubbish are you on about? As I've pointed out, besides Karpin, Mostovoi and Sytchev, almost all(if not all :lol ) the Russian players who play in CL play for Locomotive Moscow(a team which has always struggled to get out of the group phase, nevermind be ranked as a serious CL contender) - so are you going to tell me all these are world-class players just because the one club side they all play for are in the Champions League? Would it not make more sense if you compared the Russian league(rather than the CL) to those English lower leagues? For a start, given the Russian teams'(first Spartak, now Locomotive) woeful European pedigree, I don't even see the relevance of you citing the Russians competing in CL here - they could be competing in a Mickey Mouse tournament(which they probably are given the erratic results of the CL, Locomotive notwithstanding :lol ) and it would hardly make them any better, would it? And quite frankly, I'm not sure if the English lower leagues is that much worse than the Russian premier division. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edtkh Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Snip of the Week This is probably the snip of the week - Holland to score at a massive 1.22 is on offer at Ladbrokes :rollin ! For a side that has scored in every single of their qualifying match thus far to be priced at 1.22 must be a hell of a bargain(add to that, Scotland have kept just 2 clean sheets in their 10 outings so far against Iceland and Lithuania - even Faroe Islands got on the scoresheet in both games! :lol ). Don't understand how the bookies think sometimes... :p Better get on it fast though if you're interested... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JACKLESTER Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 bets Looking at the Latvia-Turkey game aswell. Heard that the match will be played in -5 conditions on a rock hard pitch, these conditions have got to suit the home side, at prices at around 7/2@willhills for home win this appears good value. Will take Russia and Scotland draw also just singles. Good luck to everyone else tho, Sha-mone!8) 8) 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saint Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Just had to drive...... Just had to drive about 10 miles to find sum poor independant still quoting 4/6 on Russia. They honestly looked at me like I was robbing them when they saw the size of the bet! £460 (cos that's what I had on me!). Think I doubled their turn over for the day!! Am a little concerned about getting paid out but we shall see. Great arguments formed on the above game. Lots of bullshit and selective data being used but good to read none the less. I just think based on current form Russia are good things at 4/6. Don't say they will win but 4/6 is far too big. 1.51 @ Betfair by the way as I type. Locomotiv have had good resutls at home this year and I know there not Russia but there des seemto be a gulf in class to me to!! Good Luck to all, esp if your on Russia!;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyPunt Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Re: Just had to drive...... £460 (cos that's what I had on me!). Think I doubled their turn over for the day!! That is confidence :eek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saint Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Not Really!! Suspect I will be laying off thruout the game. Wouldn't usually have that on if I couldn't see the action live..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vpopovic Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Re: Not Really!! Kojic is right about Russia - Wales game. Russia is very strog team at home and Wales have no chance in first leg. Scotland - Holland. I put my sallary on DRAW. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyPunt Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Re: Not Really!! Jockland 1-0 up :eek They deserve it to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vpopovic Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Re: Not Really!! :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek if it stays till half my money is in the bank already:rollin :rollin :rollin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saint Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 How? Are Scotland winning against that line-up!!!?:eek Still don't fancy Wales much!! No Earnshaw either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saint Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Re: How? O u fcukin twat Jonah!!!>: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepBlueDevilFish Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Re: more Russia bets 1 - 0 Scotland final result :eek Even better than I thought. Where's highlander ? I'm off to have those half-full whisky glasses he was talking about. :rollin Wales drawing 0 - 0 at the moment. All going well :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zm304 Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Scotland!!! great!!! great!!! great!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edtkh Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Holland Bloody Dutch twits! :evil Can't believe they couldn't even register one against the Scots! Here's hoping to another Scots victory on Wed... :rolleyes On another note, after watching the first half, does anyone seriously still think Delaney's some amateur from Northampton? :b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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