Pkr.com

[the tufty fan club]

Hi guys, first post on here for a while. I saw an advert for this site in a magazine lately and the website looks quite swish. It seems to have the novelty value needed to tempt me back into online poker but I was wondering if any of you have had experience of playing on it? Cheers ps - sorry if mentioned before, i've been quite lazy and not had a good look through old threads. :unsure

[kippe6]

Re: Pkr.com it has novelty at first but u soon get fed up of people calling u a loser ,standard of skill is usually low depending on stakes played they will call u with any two cards. i did well last year on it but started getting out drawn to often .i only play there drunk now and again

[Nade]

Re: Pkr.com I've played it a lot over the last few weeks and it's a bit of a mixed bag really. Downloading the software takes 2hrs (if you're lucky) for some people it can be up to 7hrs i've seen - that's because of the graphics, as you say look swish, you can animate your character to do whatever the hell you want even stand up at all-ins. These animations bring in the fish big time as a lot care more about what their character is doing at the table then playing some decent poker. If you haven't played poker for a while then you're ok to go into cash games, but if you've been playing 'proper' poker then it takes days to adjust to the PKR style. I can't really put my finger on it, but the style of play is like no other - most people play any 2 cards up to the 25/50c (what i went up to, i know crouch potato went up to higher so have to ask him about that) I was losing in my first few days when i first went onto PKR because i wasn't used to their style, as i say i can't put my finger on it but essentially it isn't 'proper' poker. Another down side is the lack of tables or players. At the 25/50 tables you're lucky to have 3, 10 person tables on the go, usually there will be at least 1 table so you can always get a game but the pool is very shallow. The STT are OK, but the main problem is the lobby - as it's refresh time is diabolical - a lot of the time you'll go on and see 1 $5 STT with 5/10 people seating so you'd think 5seats spare so you go to the table but no - it'll just be starting and in fact all 10 seats are taken :\ The MTT are good but not often enough, there's usually about 3 or 4 $2 or $5 tourns a day, but there really aren't that many MTT compared to other sites. Overall PKR is such a gimiky site that the poker is pretty much an after thought for most players - they'll be more interested in making their character cough, or laugh, dance, you name it they can do it but luckily there is an ignore option on every player if they're using their actions too much, which is often ;). I've got to also mention the card generator before i forget. It really has to be seen to be believed, but within 10hands you will see at least 1 flush, full house, set, everything you can name happens hand after hand on PKR, totally ridiculous. Often players with sick hands will run into eachother, for example within one hand you'll often see someone have a flush, another have a straight and someone else have a set so fireworks are always liable to happen on there and if you look on their forum there are so many complaints about the card generator because it is pretty unnatural. The amount of times i've had to throw away top pair because i know i'm beaten by one of these sick hands is countless. Having said that a lot of people on PKR think that top pair even if the flop is 248 is a great hand and will push a lot of money into the pot. If you can find these people, and to be honest they started to become less frequent towards the end of my stint on there, then you will make a lot of money on there - like me and crouch did :ok :lol It's almost making me want to go back because i know if you can hit one of those sick runs then you can make a mint. Ultimately i quit because i wanted to go back to improving my poker game and PKR is certainly not the place to do that. Quite possibly PKR is the cause of my torrid run of form within the last week, since i've quit playing PKR i've been beaten a lot by worse hands, but maybe it's because i've forgotten how to play 'proper' poker and PKR is still influencing my play. Having now put it like that i want to avoid PKR like the plague again. That pretty much covers it really, anything else you want to know just ask :ok

[the tufty fan club]

Re: Pkr.com Thanks for the replies, especially you Nade, very informative. :ok I may give it a go just to say I've tried it but it seems its not the place to seriously get back into the game. Back to Virgin I reckon!

[spireitedaz]

Re: Pkr.com Its not a site you can really multi site table with either, the application is massive, and I find a some of other networks 888, Cryptologic, just can't seem to get the bandwidth, so you end up timing out far too often. Also think the number of hands per level is less than a standard poker site, cos of the graphical stuff, so the blinds start to bite even faster in tournaments. Believe you can run a min spec version, but not sure what graphics that sacrifices. I got 1GB of RAM, and it uses (in my opinion) far too much of the memory (would imagine from clunky programming)

[Crouch Potato]

Re: Pkr.com

I've got to also mention the card generator before i forget. It really has to be seen to be believed, but within 10hands you will see at least 1 flush, full house, set, everything you can name happens hand after hand on PKR, totally ridiculous. Often players with sick hands will run into eachother, for example within one hand you'll often see someone have a flush, another have a straight and someone else have a set so fireworks are always liable to happen on there and if you look on their forum there are so many complaints about the card generator because it is pretty unnatural. The amount of times i've had to throw away top pair because i know i'm beaten by one of these sick hands is countless.

Nothing wrong with the card generator, it's just that PKR players don't know how to fold and so if you hang around EVERY hand you will hit. Just bet your hands hard and set mine. PKR is all about waiting for the nuts and getting paid, not trying to be a hero with just a pair. If you can lay down top pair and play to hit straights and flushes etc. then you have jsut found a gold mine. Beware though it can get very frustrating.

[mamboboy]

Re: Pkr.com If you are serious about poker, and try to play the game with odds/outs in mind, then you really need to avoid PKR like the plague. Hands with 5% odds stand up alot more than those with 95%...but if you're a drunken fool who likes to push K4o all in then sign up right now because you've found heaven! I'm not denying it, i've had an absolutely sordid time over the past 5 weeks, not only with the game but with their 'customer support'. Back in Feb, after taking 5-6 months off online Poker, I was browsing Myspace and saw a banner advertising PKR. I clicked the link and saw some flashy looking screenshots and downloaded the 'game'. I thought, "oh no harm in chucking $25 in", so I did. The very first hand I play, i'm dealt AA. This also happened to my friend too who registered a few days earlier. Just a crazy coincidence? Probably... I quadrupled up by the end of the evening, and by the following day i'd also completed my $25 signup bonus, so I was off to a flying start. Within two months, i'd turned a measly $25 deposit, into over $2000. This was all from playing cash games, minus a $400+ win in a MTT. I absolutely slaughtered the players on the 0.10/0.25, and 0.25/0.50 tables, only 3-4 of the regulars i'd class as being good. Pretty much every session i'd finish with more than double the buy in. Then I moved upto 0.50/1.00, PKR's most popular limit. This is where the problems started with both the RNG and customer relations... A week at playing my newly aquired limit, I was upto $3000, but then it started...for around 5 weeks since, i've been seeing some absolutely awe-inspiring dealt hands and laid down boards. Something you'd expect to see, once every few days? We're talking seeing a full house, straight or a flush every 6-7 hands. And very often these will occur during the same hand! Now some of you might brush it off and say, "THATS POKER!". But during one session there this week, in the space of two hours at the most, I lost to quads. Twice with a full house (From pocket pairs), and then again with some marginal and (on tilt). When I played at Coral/Party Poker, i'd be lucky to even see someone with quads in the space of a week, and it was always greeted with a "wow, nice!"...yet on PKR it's more like "Oh, there's another set of Quads..." And I urge you not to brush it off and say "well, you play more hands online than in real life so you see alot more amazing things"...seriously, if i hear one more person put it down to that i'll go crazy. PKR averages around 50 hands per/hour. Party Poker for example, you're looking at 150, that along with playing 4 tables at a time, then i'd play around 600 hands per hour...yet you'll see just as many, if not more full houses, straights and rivers on PKR...where I play...wait for it...under 100 hands per/hour, on two tables. Earlier on in the week I also flopped a straight (QJ, 8 9 10 board), checked and reraised all-in. The guy showed a 10 J. At this point I was slightly over 96% odds on favourite to take down the pot with my straight vs his pair....the next two cards come, J, 10. Idiot wins with a full house 10's over Jacks. The general intelligence of it's users was summed up with his reponse to my "OH...MY...GOD"... It was "what?!", like he'd meant it to happen! All in all, over the space of two weeks, i'm around $800 down to the most unreal beats. Here are just a few of their rake-maxing techniques. Observe closely: This was all taken during one session (minus the fourth one).... http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9879/pkrspecial8rq1.jpg http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/5057/pkrspecial2ep8.jpg http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5720/pkrspecial6wh7.jpg (go all in with middle of bottom pair and you'l hit a set on the river) http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/980/sickpm1.jpg Bonus shot: http://www.clanbm.com/fallz/fouraces.jpg So you might be thinking to yourself "jesus, if he hates the site that much, why doesn't he just take his money and leave?", well, keep reading and you'll find out... Now, moving on...a few weeks ago, I was involved in a thread questioning whether something is 'wrong' with the RNG at PKR, it gained thousands of views and obviously a lot of people are noticing that something is up. Around this time, during a game, myself and a few others were having a harmless conversation about Big Brother (Yea, I know, we're sad!), when one of us swore...some miserable woman went off on one threatening to report him for swearing, so we apologised and told her to chill out, but she refused. In a form of protest, I swore too, and pleaded for her to report me. She reported all of us, and I logged on the next day only to notice I could no longer use the chatbox...which was odd because all the other boys could, and had only received a 'warning' email and nothing more. I check my inbox and and come across this:

My name is XXXXX XXXXXX, Head of Client Services for PKR.com. It has come to my attention that you have been behaving inappropriately on our tables. Our aim is to provide a pleasurable and enjoyable gaming experience for our customers and some of them are offended by the language you are using at our tables. As a result I have permanently removed your chat privileges which means you can continue to play but you can no longer chat in the chat box. If you continue to act inappropriately or post anything negative about PKR on our forum for example I have no option but to close your account indefinitely. I hope we do not have to discuss this matter again and that you can understand the action I have been forced to take.

I responded apologising, saying i'd never aim profanity at anyone at the table, 2-3 weeks later, and she hasn't bothered to reply. Then, a few days later, I attempted to post a response on their forums...only to be greeted with a window saying something along the lines of "You are banned from posting on these forums". They'd also decided to ban me from the websites 'ranking' system too, again, for no reason. And to top it off, they'd also barred any withdrawals from my account...what was their excuse? Oh, because i'd made a query about withdrawing the entirety of my cash...this was done for 'security reasons', and refused to remove it until I provided them with scanned drivers license, switch card, passport and a utility bill. So basically the only thing I could now do on my account was, yep, play poker! When I had people say "Hey Mambo, how's it going", I just had to give the 'thumbs up' emote. How nice of PKR! They have since sanctioned a new rule on their forums, stating any post questioning the validity of PKR's RNG will be removed, and if someone repeats they will have their forum access removed. :spank Not I may be wrong here, but if a site is being accused of having a rather UNrandom RNG, you'd expect them to just leave the nonsense theory posts and let people form their own decisions. But by making these stricts rules, and silencing myself like they have, it just makes it worse! I'd planned on going out this weekend with a bang and winning the $10K GTD tonight...you see, over the past few weeks, i've spent my 'PKR Points' on tickets to the big tournaments over the weekend. I've always been issued one by speaking to live support, and i've always been given it no problem. Oh, but I try today, and "the person who can issue them isn't here today", Hah, bull! I am being honest here, PKR have the worst customer relations skills I have ever encountered, and if I could get ahold of their C.E.O's email address (i've asked but they've ignored my request), I wouldn't think twice about writing a complaint about how shocking their head of support has treated me. Don't forget, all of this 'supposedly' spawned from me being reported for swearing, once, but it's blatantly obvious that they've silenced me for questioning the (not-so) Random Number Generator. Which may I add I stopped talking about once the new rule was put in place...but the ban was finally laid down for posting a 'bad beat', in the forums 'beat beat' section. Oh, the irony! So to end my 'review', I can only stress you only sign up at PKR if you want to be ruled by some poker hypocrisy, and you want to risk having your entire account blocked for even questioning the websites integrity. Next week I will finally be able to get my money out of their grubby hands. I would love to leave them feeling like a modern day Che Guevara (well, either him or Joseph Merrick), seriously, anyone giving them even a dollar in rake is an absolute crazy fool - :lol P.S. Can they close my account and remove my funds for airring my discripencies on here? Not one section in their terms states that is not allowed for people to post negative reviews about PKR outside of the website. Correct?

[kippe6]

Re: Pkr.com dont worry m8 if u get ur money redeposist and ull get a good time again just dont winge they have always paid men when u get v the bad beats its time to play somewhere else for a while i usually play one stt every 2 months but hey they all count

[Nade]

Re: Pkr.com Collossal post by Mamboboy :notworthy so couldn't really read it all at this time, but caught the bit re. the hands that come out and totally agree and bad luck Mambo it is a bit of a joke at times. I know crouch potato will hate someone agreeing with me as well :ok:lol

[Crouch Potato]

Re: Pkr.com PKR is rigged, but so long as it's in my favour I wont complain: Button is at seat 4 Seat 1: howardmoonrules - $319.93 Seat 2: tinder10 - $49.50 Seat 3: Methyl - $49.50 Seat 4: KimiRaikkonen - $120.10 Seat 5: GeeHeeb - $188.65 Seat 6: ibetyoubust - $49.50 Seat 7: xNakix - $99.99 Seat 8: bigbertha - $98.97 Seat 9: stallion67 - $56.51 Seat 10: Sussianne - $30 Moving Button to seat 5 ibetyoubust posts small blind ($0.25) xNakix posts big blind ($0.50) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [Js Qc Ks Ac] to KimiRaikkonen bigbertha calls $0.50 stallion67 calls $0.50 howardmoonrules calls $0.50 tinder10 calls $0.50 Methyl calls $0.50 KimiRaikkonen raises to $2 GeeHeeb calls $2 ibetyoubust folds xNakix calls $2 bigbertha calls $2 stallion67 calls $2 howardmoonrules calls $2 tinder10 calls $2 Methyl calls $2 Dealing Flop [Ts 2c 9d] xNakix bets $0.50 bigbertha calls $0.50 Methyl: lol Methyl: 0.50 stallion67 calls $0.50 howardmoonrules calls $0.50 tinder10 calls $0.50 Methyl calls $0.50 KimiRaikkonen calls $0.50 GeeHeeb calls $0.50 Dealing Turn [8s] xNakix bets $20.25 bigbertha did not respond in time and is folded bigbertha folds stallion67 folds howardmoonrules folds tinder10 folds Methyl calls $20.25 KimiRaikkonen raises to $101.25 GeeHeeb folds xNakix calls $97.49 (all-in) Methyl calls $47 (all-in) Returning $3.76 to KimiRaikkonen uncalled Methyl shows [Kd Qs 6s As] KimiRaikkonen shows [Js Qc Ks Ac] xNakix shows [Ah Kc 2s Jd] Dealing River [9h] Taking Rake of $3 from pot 1 KimiRaikkonen has Straight, Queen high KimiRaikkonen wins $100.98 from side pot #1 with: Straight, Queen high KimiRaikkonen wins $158.25 with: Straight, Queen high

[swampster]

Re: Pkr.com mate of mine swears by it, and regularly makes $500 at a time sitting on the cash tables and hoovering up the fish.

[wageringwar]

Re: Pkr.com Another point I'd make is that, much as I love the PKR graphics, the rotating camera viewpoint - moving around the table as each player makes his move - is one of the all-time great migraine inducers in a fast game. If they don't sort it, I can see a class action lawsuit coming on...

[Punto Banco]

Re: Pkr.com Is this poker.com...... I had literally 1k there that they took... i made it all from $15 I got in a freeroll... admitadly they didnt allow australians... and i lied so i could play the freeroll (plus I was 17 @ the time).... but I was really pissed.... last i heard of it they sent me an email.... "once your identity is confirmed as being an american citizen we will release your account".... at 17 I could have really used that money.... or not...:ok

[earphones]

Re: Pkr.com no different sites, never liked pkr to slow for my pc! must just cash out someday

[slapdash]

Re: Pkr.com It seems PKR.com are going to introduce 15 and 30-second video ad breaks on their play money tables. Their marketing director said:

... we've been focused on creating as realistic an environment as possible. Advertising will enhance the player's experience by further replicating real-world poker.

I was going to add a sarcastic comment, but I can't think of anything that seems remotely adequate ... :eyes

[GaF]

Re: Pkr.com LMAO - unbelievable comment!!!!!!!!!

[kippe6]

Re: Pkr.com could it be to get rid of play money players they do have lag problems at times

[Nade]

Re: Pkr.com I pray they never bring that to the real cash tables or i'd leave - and lose my regular income! :cry The amount of play tables on pkr are a joke tbh there's probably about 100's of play tables on the go this min but only 4 25/50c 10seater cash tables going :sad Not that it's affecting the amount of fish there :rollin. God save the fish :dude

[AJ]

Re: Pkr.com [Rant] Mamboboy RNGs are indepentdently audited, over the long term they provide a consistant deal. Anything else is just variance. It can be a b!tch sometimes, and bad runs can last a while. No one is cheating you, or generating extra rake, it's a deeply stupid comment. I'm sure you didn't complain while you were winning. If you can't suck it up and deal with it, without whinging like a spolit kid, then I suggest you give up all forms of gambling. Can't be bothered writing out an explanation just now, so i'll steal someone elses. It refers to PokerStars, but everything in it could be applied to PKR [/RANT]

Intro So I've seen post after post after post either directly accusing or indirectly insinuating that online poker is rigged. Though the complaints more often than not come from folks who are frustrated from bad beats, the most common theory is that the poker sites so this to encourage action and thus increase the rake at their tables. I think if we polled the regulars here at Cardschat, I bet the vote would slant in favour of "not rigged". Still, despite the fact that accusations of rigging really don't make a ton of sense coming from current players (goodness, why continue to play?), I thought it would be worth investigating. So here goes nothing... Logic and reason This is my own opinion: rigging a poker site would be like a professional athlete stealing sporting goods from his or her team -- the risk of losing something good would dramatically outweight the gains from cheating. I'm trained in game theory, and I can tell you that experts in the field would suggest that this is ludicrous (hip hop afficionados might suggest that it is instead ludacris). Thus, I personally believe that it is unlikely that major sites are in any way rigged. I know if I were running one, and I do have a business background, there is no way I would risk the mint that online poker sites make in rake just to add a few extra bucks. Research For the sake of argument, I decided to use Poker Stars as my research subject, though I would apply my conclusions to Party, Full Tilt, and any of the other large, reputable sites. As for flybynightpoker.com and stealingyourmoneypoker.com, I speak not for those. So, I did something incredibly complex and comprehensive: I went to pokerstars.com and looked around. Clicking on "integrity", I found their policy on shuffling basically immediately. According to Poker Stars, there are many ways to shuffle a deck of cards. How many? Well, picture a 5 followed by 67 zeroes, that's how many. So what Poker Stars has to do is select one of those 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ways to shuffle a deck and start dealing the cards. How do they choose it? Believe it or not, they use us players to generate their random numbers, using "user input, including summary of mouse movements and events timing, collected from client software". In the event that there are problems with this as a RNG (random number generator), they have a backup: "true hardware random number generator developed by Intel, which uses thermal noise as an entropy source". They go on and on describing how they obtain and apply their RNG, but these details are mostly beyond me. So why should we believe Poker Stars? They could say anything on their website right? Well, their RNG is certified by 2 independent organizations: Cigital and BMM International. I decided to look into these organizations. Cigital: An independent software risk management organization working with such companies as Qualcomm, Visa International, Texas Instruments, AOL, MasterCard, General Electric, Motorola, Pfizer Health Solutions, and Ericsson. Why would they put all that business on the line to lie for Poker Stars? BMM International: A global organization that provides independent computer systems assurance and compliance certification testing services, the Australia-based company is a client of the Australian government among other organizations. My question: Why would Poker Stars lie about its 2-tiered RNG when it is immensely profitable without it, and why would 2 independent organizations risk their reputations to vouch for it? Conclusions To me, if this is not enough evidence that Poker Stars (and in all likelihood, the major poker sites) is un-rigged and up-and-up, then nothing is. Personally, I believe it. That's why I bother risking my money there, and at Party Poker, and any of the reputable poker sites. If I thought for a second that they might be rigged, I'd take my cash out in a flash -- and so should you. So the next time you're thinking you've taken 1 too many bad beats, or that you seem to win more in the morning, or after you've made a deposit, or during full moons, or what have you, and you think about posting that online poker is rigged, please ask yourself 3 questions: 1 - Isn't it possible that it seems rigged to me, because when something happens in my favour or my best-hand-going-in holds up, I don't notice it as much as when I take a huge bad beat? 2 - Anyway, isn't it true that even AA vs. 72o is still just a 8:1 favourite (according to this), and even here you should expect to lose once every 9 times, and no hole cards are 100% to win. 3 - Why would a poker site that is "raking it in", so to speak, bother to risk all its profits and cheat just to generate a little more action? If you answer "no" to all of these questions, then I have gathered some additional links that you may find helpful: here, here, and here. Epilogue If anyone wishes to discuss this further, I would be happy to in a constructive way. I have just found that people are all too ready to blame their woes on multi-billion dollar companies rigging their operations to squeeze a few extra cents out of us. Personally, when I lose a bunch of cash on a bad beat, it's more often than not my own damn fault. Please feel free to direct future queries about RNGs here, and I will add to it as needed.

[AJ]

Re: Pkr.com just checked, the people that sign off the RNG for PKR also sign off the following sites. Are you claiming that Boss / Full Tilt / CentreBet and Tribeca are all rigged for rake ?? Are you suggesting that no employee of any of these organisations would expose this cheating, which must be worth millions of dollars. It's a vast global conspiracy right ? Are you begining to understand how stupid your post was yet ?? Access Systems Research; ACTTAB Limited; Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC); AWA Gaming; Aristocrat Leisure Industries (ALI); Bellamy, Miller & Monypenny; Betcorp Limited; BetWWTS; BMM International; BMM Test Labs; Bodog; Boss Media; Centrebet; Centre Racing; Consolidated Gaming Corporation, Cryptologic Inc; Darwin All Sports; Department of Communications & Information Services (NT); Department of Industries & Business (NT); Diamond Beach Hotel Casino; Director of Gaming (Northern Territory); Director of Licensing (Northern Territory); DMR Consulting (Australia); EventsMarket Limited (UK); Ernst & Young; IGT (Australia); Full Tilt Poker; GGS-AU; Global Gaming Services (GGS); International All Sports; Jupiters Limited; Kahnawake Gaming Commission; Lasseters Hotel Casino; Lasseters Online; Littlewoods; Magna Corporation; MGM Grand (Darwin); MGM Mirage; Mikohn Gaming; Mobilesoft Limited; Morris International; Next Generation Gaming; Northern Territory TAB; NTC Samurai Gaming; NT Treasury - Racing, Gaming & Licensing Division; Olympic Gaming; Pacific Casino Management; Online Gaming Systems (OGS); Panell Kerr Foster (PKF); Racing & Gaming Authority (NT); Realtime Gaming; Ritz Interactive Limited; Samurai Gaming; Singapore Pools; Sports Interaction; Sun International; TAB Limited; Tasman Gaming Inc; Tattersall Lottery Consultants; Technical Systems Testing (TST); The Ritz Club London; The Ritz Club Online; The Territory Lottery Company (TLC); Tribeca Tables; TST; TVB Enterprises; Video Lottery Consultants (VLC); WagerWorks; and others.

[stubhoy77]

Re: Pkr.com Cant believe some of the idiots on pkr im holding ak and we have a moonman on the table making big raise every hand i raise 0.40 (on 5/10) and he reraise to 0.80 i move all in for $5 and he makes the call to show A4 the flop comes 8 10 Q turn Q and river....suprise suprise 4? wtf it happens all the time usually play on the 0.25/0.50 tables but was skint but some of the players r the worst have seen anyone know any better sites to play on

[Nade]

Re: Pkr.com

Cant believe some of the idiots on pkr im holding ak and we have a moonman on the table making big raise every hand i raise 0.40 (on 5/10) and he reraise to 0.80 i move all in for $5 and he makes the call to show A4 the flop comes 8 10 Q turn Q and river....suprise suprise 4? wtf it happens all the time usually play on the 0.25/0.50 tables but was skint but some of the players r the worst have seen anyone know any better sites to play on

What's your username on pkr? You've probably seen me on there '27Nade' and 'KimiRaikkonen' is Crouch Potato on here. Patience is the key to pkr.

[stubhoy77]

Re: Pkr.com Stubhoy77 is my username like the set up of pkr but some of the players just rely on luck and dont try to play poker some people go all in with any 2 cards it seems bad play seems to get rewarded,dunno many times my AA have been cracked with shite.

[GaF]

Re: Pkr.com

dunno many times my AA have been cracked with shite.

I'm guessing about 1 time in 3 ;) (assumption - average of 2 players with random holdings...)