Difficulties with Queens (Poker)

[CJ Mars]

I find pocket Queens one of the hardest hands to play. I wonder what other players typically do when dealt queens? I generally play tables of 6 as opposed to tables of 10 BTW. My general strategy is to make a raise at least twice the size of the current pot if the pot is unraised. I'll call a small-medium raise from any position and sometimes reraise. My intention is to try and get the players down to at least a heads up situation with one or two as my chances are so much better there. If nothing higher than a queen flops and unless there’s a made flush or straight on the board I’ll raise the pot to try and make the draws as expensive as possible for anyone left. Generally most folk will fold at that stage. The problem comes of course if an A or K flops. Two hands yesterday illustrates this perfectly. There’s a raise from a player behind me when ’m dealt ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comQueens in mid position. This guy has been raising with pocket pairs all night. He’s already given me a severe hiding by calling a chunky pot sized AK raise with pocket 8s and flopping trips when I flop an A. I call the raise and raise him the pot. I’m determined to raise him out of it if the flop isn’t too scary. The blinds fold and the flop comes Kd 8s 4h He raises the pot. I debate this internally and eventually fold. He of course turns over 99 :\ .The right call by me? The second incident with an early caller and me raising twice the pot with pocket queens.The table is VERY loose. The caller and another later player call the raise and 3 see the flop which comes 6d 8d 3c There’s a possible str and flush draw on. The early player checks and I raise the pot. Both call. The turn comes Ks :unsure <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comThe early player checks. I figure I can’t show weakness here :( and raise ½ the pot (same size as last raise on the flop). The late player folds but the early player calls. A rag falls on the river. The early player checks. I debate another raise but I figure there’s so much in the pot that enough is enough. He turns over AJ d. He was on a flush draw with an overcard. By my reckoning the call on the turn was ok by him but not on the river. More importantly was my raise on the turn correct? I know in both these examples the style of the table and so on are vital but generally what is the best strategy for Qs?

[Mockler]

Re: Difficulties with Queens (Poker) Hiya there, QQ can be a diffuclt hand too suss out .. but remember it is the 3rd best hand in poker .. so it isnt all that hard. When the flop comes .. dont be scared too see a king .. people rarely call a high raise with anything other than a A high or maybe KQ or even pocket lower pair. If someone bets into you with a flop like you said .. try a re raise .. perfect way of seeing where they lie in the hand .. if they call your re raise and dont re raise you .. u possibly are winning the hand and there looking for outs. When a flop comes down with 2 suits .. you gotta those guys looking for flush/st8 draws out of there .. hefty bet on the flop is called for when this happens .. if 1 stays with you and the turn is a rag .. put him all in .. at least then he is paying 4/1 odds or so off finding his out card .. if you lose , you lose .. this happens .. this is poker but that would be a great strong play for you too make and you will win more often than you will lose in the long run playing a hand this way. Im a professional player .. $hit happens all the time .. its called POKER .. love it or hate it. Hope this helps Glen

[Markpl1]

Re: Difficulties with Queens (Poker) This used to be my favourite hand mainly cos I seem to see it more often than not and won the majority of the time with it. It does depend the level you play it, but in a qulality game it can be dangerous hand becasue a big raise pre-flop will lead to everyone folding or a call from AK (coin flip) or a re raise from Kings/aces. Mockler is right tho, my game has vastly improved since I made my opponents pay a heavy price to draw against me.Let them chase make the pot odds in favour of you not them.You will win long term which is what it is about!

[aliensyndm]

Re: Difficulties with Queens (Poker) Are you sure this isn't a euphemism ? I mean trouble with queens, you have women problems right ? :lol

[CJ Mars]

Re: Difficulties with Queens (Poker) I was going to say trouble with whores but thoght better of it ;)

[Jezza]

Re: Difficulties with Queens (Poker) Hi CJ, Am back online now properly (thank goodness) so will be going through all the PL poker threads now, starting here :) QQ can definately be a troublesome hand to play - however as Mockler says it is the 3rd best hand you can be dealt and it certainly wins a lot more unimproved than JJ so in my opinion it can be played hard most of the time. I will raise with it preflop almost all the time - the only exception might be if I am directly UTG in a 10 man ring cash game with low blinds and deep stacks. Then I might just limp with it/call someone elses raise (this not only disguises your hand but might stop you from ending up in some horrible situations). However generally you should RAISE preflop. If there have been a few limpers I will put in a raise about the size of the pot, if there have been only a couple or no limpers before me I will do the "standard" raise. This is commonplace on the net and is usually 5 times the size of the BB. So in a 2/4 NL cash game you would make it 20 to go or in a 1/2 you might make it 10 to go. This is not so much to limit the field (at least not in my mind!) but more to get the money in when you are ahead - when I hold any hand with a deep stack it does not matter to me how many people call me preflop, the skill is all about judging where you are when the flop comes down. The flop is pretty much the defining moment for your queens - it all depends on its texture and how many people have called you. If you end up with an overpair (which is probable) then I woud usually stick in a pot sized bet. You must make people on flush/straight draws pay badly for them - this is where your profit comes from in the long run (sure they might hit it but give them bad odds and you will be the long term winner) and betting the pot size gives them bad odds. If you get called then you have to judge what you are being called by. Look for flush/straight draws on the board - a J or 10 high flop might be giving you action by J10 JK A10 AJ any of these hands. Be a little wary of connected flops like J102 or 984 as it is definately possible someone has two pair and of course three flushed or straight flops should immediately make you careful of how you proceed. If you are given action on a rag board with no draws then there is a high chance your opponent has flopped a set/some two pair so again be very wary. Remember all you have is a pair of queens and if 3 stacks of 200 dollars end up all in at a flop of J102 you do not have the best hand! However the majority of the time your QQ will be good and you should play it as such. The IDEAL flop for you is AQx. Yes - QQx or Qxx would give you some great hands but you have to ask what can give you action? on QQx you just have to slowplay it and hope someone houses up by the river. on Qxx I would bet it hard if there is a flush/straight draw on the board otherwise I might slowplay hoping someone catches a lower set (against multiple opponents on the net tho I might just bet it hard as you have a high chance of being called anyway by some fud). However with AQx you will get action of someone holding AK AJ etc and you have a great hand. Your average player would check in this situation however if you are first to go with the QQ on the AQx flop I would BET IT HARD. This way someone with the A will RAISE you and you can then smooth call and check-raise the turn to pot commit them. Sometimes they will all fold if noone has the A and of course like I said 95% of players will check their set of queens here but if you want to break someone with your set you must lead at it - be aggressive. The bad flops are of course Kxx Axx and the godawful AKx. Against multiple opponents I WOULD JUST CHECK THIS FLOP. If it is just checked around you can make your decision on the turn as to if your QQ is good or not but the likehood is someone has an A or K. I dont care what anyone says about "betting for information" but I quite like to get my information free tyvm. If you lead for 20 dollars at these flops and are raised you have to throw your hand away and its cost you 20 dollars. If you check and someone bets behind you you can just muck your queens for 0 more loss to your stack. Poker is all about losing the least on your losing hands as well as winning big. Against a lone opponent your hand still figures to be best and is probably worth a bet regardless of the flop. I would shut down on an overcard flop if he called mind you. CJ I think you said in the hand your opponent had 99 he had raised preflop? (Hard to tell as there are some office markups or something in your post which make it not clear to me). If someone has raised preflop and I call them with QQ I will pretty much call them on the flop regardless of what comes as long as it is not some ridiculous bet. The reason is a lot of (and it really helps to know who) players will bet the flop regardless after raising preflop so your QQ had a good chance of being good. Like all things in poker there is no "correct" answer on how to play QQ, its all about the situation at the time and the players you are against but I hope this post has given you some pointers. Jez

[CJ Mars]

Re: Difficulties with Queens (Poker) Good to see you back up and running Jez. Congrats on the recent big wins :clap . Very impressive. Living proof that the saying those who can't do teach is incorrect as you manage to both very well. Thanks for the comprehensive answer. Maybe I'm just not getting the flops but pocket Queens have not been kind to me recently :( . I'm playing them strong but often just catch an A or K on the flop. If its checked to me I'll raise it but more often than not I think its just throwing money away as people will call with almost any A or K flush hole cards for example. I find if I've been playing for a while and an A or K flops with me holding pocket queens I've usually been playing so tight that most players will fold to me as I generally tend to play big hole cards. Haven't played much in the last while. Been busy here but I'm going back home in about 10 days to Ireland to a new apartment, sat TV and hopefully a decent broadband connection so I'll be playing a lot more especially as I'm taking time off before getting work :D . In my last game (about 10 days ago) the Internet connection seized up on me in succesive hands with a full house of Kings and tens and a nut straight so I'm giving it a rest. Losing money to crap play is one thing....to a crap connection is tooooooooo much :\