rule 4 query at Towcester

[gman1]

I placed a tenner eachway on Like Ice at Towcester last night and casually walked out of the bookies. I had taken the 5/1 on offer then. The horse duly won easily under McCoy. I calculated that I would lift 82.50. When I went in to collect earlier today I was given 74 pounds. After querying this I was told that there was a late non-runner and subsequent rule 4. The horse was craiglands, withdrawn at 6.53pm apparently. The off price was 5/1 though, but I was told I had taken an early price. When i asked why i was being hit with the rule 4 when the SP was unchanged I was told to leave the bookies and subsequently barred. Anyone else ever been treated like this?

[Cons]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester My bookies will call up and happily question any decision over the phone while you stand there.

[TheBoyRooney]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester yes i've often wondered this.If you backed a horse at 25-1 and there was a nr and all bets are subject to rule 4, and it went to say 16-1 after nr,but it drifted on course and won at 25-1,do you still get a rule 4 on the 25-1 original bet or paid at sp under BOG.

[gman1]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester its a bookies way of covering themselves...robbery is what it is... there was no effect on prices, i would understand if there was but there wasnt

[anth699]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester unfortunetly thats the rules,unless you bet bog which is not always possible in the shops,it does not make any difference what price you took the rule 4 is decided on the price of the withdrawn horse,even if yours went to 10/1 you would only get your 5/1 minus the rule 4

[anth699]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester under bog,some bookies would pay u out if the sp is the same or greater that the price taken with no r4,some bookies would only pay you out with no r4 if the sp price is greater than the taken price,ie in tbrs case 26/1,25/1 would mean r4,it pays to look at the bog rules before you place your bet

[The Saint]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

I placed a tenner eachway on Like Ice at Towcester last night and casually walked out of the bookies. I had taken the 5/1 on offer then. The horse duly won easily under McCoy. I calculated that I would lift 82.50. When I went in to collect earlier today I was given 74 pounds. After querying this I was told that there was a late non-runner and subsequent rule 4. The horse was craiglands, withdrawn at 6.53pm apparently. The off price was 5/1 though, but I was told I had taken an early price. When i asked why i was being hit with the rule 4 when the SP was unchanged I was told to leave the bookies and subsequently barred. Anyone else ever been treated like this?

You were barred for querrying a bet?!? You must have 'asked' in an aggressive manner surely!? If they have barred you asking in a polite manner I'd be inclined to make a complaint!:@

[gman1]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester yes i will admit i was slightly aggressive as the woman behind the counter refused to explain to me fully what had happened..... when the manager finally arrived he asked me was I unhappy at not receiving 8 pounds? imagine! i then asked him if ten percent of his salary was withheld would he turn up for work?

[The Saint]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

yes i will admit i was slightly aggressive as the woman behind the counter refused to explain to me fully what had happened..... when the manager finally arrived he asked me was I unhappy at not receiving 8 pounds? imagine! i then asked him if ten percent of his salary was withheld would he turn up for work?

Unfortunatly m8 (with apologies to those that do) most staff in betting shops don't have a clue what they are talking about!! It's a shame - you wait until you try and get them to find a price for the next day!!! They will say it's not available even if you have seen it online and on the screens in that bl shop!!! You just have to bite your tongue and get through it.... No poin tin getting banned from Bookmakers if you can help it - I mean if you are going to turn a profit, it's only gonna cost you long term.... I'd apologise I think - but that's just me! Good Luck whatever u decide to do... PS - backing online can hold many advantages over betting in a shop imho!:ok

[andyjkmak]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester I'd say count your blessings, I would happily never set foot on a high street bookmakers again. No BOG, no idea of rules and no real desire to be there(the staff that is) Stick to online betting, much better and stress free IMHO. :ok

[danj2202]

I placed a tenner eachway on Like Ice at Towcester last night and casually walked out of the bookies. I had taken the 5/1 on offer then. The horse duly won easily under McCoy. I calculated that I would lift 82.50. When I went in to collect earlier today I was given 74 pounds. After querying this I was told that there was a late non-runner and subsequent rule 4. The horse was craiglands, withdrawn at 6.53pm apparently. The off price was 5/1 though, but I was told I had taken an early price. When i asked why i was being hit with the rule 4 when the SP was unchanged I was told to leave the bookies and subsequently barred. Anyone else ever been treated like this?

You will be one of those that will claim to staff to have been punting for twenty years and never heard of rule four. And punters who think its daylight robbery obviously dont understand it either it is perfectly fair. Easiest way around it is never take an early price as the early board is daylight robbery with the extra margin that is made on it compared to sp Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[danj2202]

Oh and if you got yoursellf banned you were more than slightly aggressive mate. Give us all a break. What is it that makes you think you have the right to enter someones workplace and behave in an aggressive manner towards them under any circumstance? If i was the manager of the shop in question i would accept your apology but you would remain banned as your behaviour was clearly unacceptable and you know this by the idiotic way you have portrayed the situation in post one and the subsequent move to slightly aggressive Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[gman1]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester danj... seriously mate no need for the morality lesson.....

[danj2202]

Just giving the other side from a betting shop manager. People seem to think they can behave on whatever manner they want on a bookies. For example in a manner that they would never dream of in tescos. This guy is clearly not telling the whole story and i am sure he is banned with good reason. As i say look at it from my side. I should not have to be abused in the workplace, edpecially not for following rules that predate my birth Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[danj2202]

Just realised you are the guy in question. Care to elaborate on what you said to the poor female cashier? Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[gman1]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester the poor bookies manager... you nearly think the punter was taking money from your pocket... you will be glad to hear i was de-barred, but refused an apology, a few regulars instead said they would stop coming if i was barred... victory to the punter

[andyjkmak]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester Just curious, you do understand Rule 4? It is very frustrating but I guess I'm oblivious to it now as its been a factor in racing for so long;)

[danj2202]

Rule four is nothing more than fair. It exists to protect a bookmaker in the event of withdrawn horses to effectively adjust the price of a horse to what it will be in the new book so you dont for example end up with a 1/3 shot withdrawn and a nine runner field all laid at double figure prices and a massive losing book. I personally dont see the issue with it as it is a fair system. Some people just always think the bookie is trying to steal from them. Others dont know how to conduct themselves in a reasonable level headed manner. It takes all folks Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[danj2202]

Gman. You would have been barred from mine. Dont need your sort in my shop mate. Enjoy your victory and continue to behave as you want. I am a strong believer in what goes around comes around ;) Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Cons]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

Gman. You would have been barred from mine. Dont need your sort in my shop mate. Enjoy your victory and continue to behave as you want. I am a strong believer in what goes around comes around ;) Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

There is always tension where money is concerned, I saw plenty of it 'in mine', it happens, and at times, its to be expected.

[danj2202]

Tru people do behave differently where money is concerned but there is no excuse for aggressive behaviour to people working there. We do expect it and for me it is sad that we have to expect it. As i said earlier people would never dream of behaving in tescos as they do in a bookies yet both are shop environments Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Cons]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester Its more aggression at the outcome manifested towards the cashier. Ive seen prices taking fairly from the TV screen in the shop, and in the end ruled against. Its not pleasent to see and yes it could be dealt with better, but it happens, doesnt mean he is a wife beater.

[andyjkmak]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester I agree that one should always be courteous when dealing with anyone in a 'shop' environment. However I can understand the frustration that some punters feel when they have rules imposed that primarily suit the bookies. I will also point out that there are a number of bookies I know who are downright rude when dealing with punters, often being quite agressive with them when they question rules etc. I have always taken the position of being polite and friendly no matter what though and it has paid off as my local bookie, who can be aggressive at times, is always fine with me and often force settles bets before his system has updated. I guess it all depends on how well you're doing on a particular day though as losing streaks can affect moods as we all know ;)

[Aidymac]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

I placed a tenner eachway on Like Ice at Towcester last night and casually walked out of the bookies. I had taken the 5/1 on offer then. The horse duly won easily under McCoy. I calculated that I would lift 82.50. When I went in to collect earlier today I was given 74 pounds. After querying this I was told that there was a late non-runner and subsequent rule 4. The horse was craiglands, withdrawn at 6.53pm apparently. The off price was 5/1 though, but I was told I had taken an early price. When i asked why i was being hit with the rule 4 when the SP was unchanged I was told to leave the bookies and subsequently barred. Anyone else ever been treated like this?

You took the price, of 5/1. There was no best odds guaranteed. So the rule 4 counts. You were in the wrong. And i am certain they would not bar you unless you lost the plot.

[danj2202]

Its more aggression at the outcome manifested towards the cashier. Ive seen prices taking fairly from the TV screen in the shop, and in the end ruled against. Its not pleasent to see and yes it could be dealt with better, but it happens, doesnt mean he is a wife beater.

I dont recall ever suggesting he laid a finger on his spouse......... if he has one Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Gavlar17]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester Came into this thread for a read.... Getting a little heated though! Haha! I do side with the majority though, there is no chance the bookies would bar you purely for asking about a rule 4. Even if it was perhaps someone new working in the bookie who couldn't explain it, you could easily have found out more about the rule on here. I have felt your pain gman, just a few weeks ago I thought PaddyPower had chinned me out of 10% of my winnings! I sent them an e-mail to query it and also posted a comment on here about it - had an answer in about 10 minutes! As others have said, online betting would help you out a bit in this situation by securing best odds guaranteed. After all, if you place a bet and your selection is a n/r you get your money back, so why isn't it fair the the bookie can alter their price in the event of a n/r??

[cpo]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester I still often pop in the bookies on my lunch or when I have a spare hour in the day while I am at Uni and I can see this from both points of view. Depending on which Bookie I go in, the service you get in them and the people that frequent them are vastly different. Due to time constraints I might have to go in the bookies that is full of people that you would expect in a busy town centre shop. I actually went in last week to put a bet on and could not believe it when I seen some man shouting and swearing at the screen. He wasn't shouting at his horse getting beat or his dog getting beat but was screaming at the screen at the daily 49's. There was a little old couple sat in front of him and I could see the old lady didn't want to hear what he was shouting and she got up and left. In the same bookies a couple of years ago a man put a stool through one of the roulette machines. I asked behind the counter how much he had lost and she said £20. Absolutely ridiculous. It's these types of people that the staff shouldn't have to deal with but unfortunately you are going to get them all the time in that environment. I for one would not be able to keep calm if someone started shouting at me because they had lost 50p. I find it hard enough to keep calm working part-time in a coffee shop! On the other hand the shop I go into near where I live is brilliant. The staff are all friendly and everyone that goes in is nice. Very rarely do you get any riff-raff in but I think it makes a massive difference when the atmosphere of a shop is good. One thing I have noticed a couple of times when going into a bookies are when a race is about to go off, you get a mad rush to the counter with everyone trying to get their bets on. I have seen a few times people going to collect their winnings only to be told that they didn't get the bet on in time. I don't know how it works but when exactly does the cashier know that the bet isn't on? Is it when they put it through the machine to put it on or is it when they flash the slip after the race? I would be extremely frustrated if this happened to me but touch wood it never will.

[erhaab1965]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester I bet quite regularly in shops and know that a lot of staff are clueless about horse racing and sports in general . Earlier in the year I asked for odds on the Cheltenham Gold Cup in January and was asked is it running today ? This evening I collected a short priced each way equally divided double , one won and the other came second but the cashier settled it place to place !! After a bit of dialogue and the intervention of a co worker I got the correct returns , more than 50% extra !! Almost every time I have a winning EW ED bet , it is incorrectly settled , on occassions they pay me too much. I have no understanding about the training cashiers undertake but in my opinion they are clueless about the industry compared to in 10 years ago . Whilst the computerisation of settling bets has made it more efficient , it has made the quality of service worse. At one shop a manager refused to accept my non full cover tricast perm because he did not know how to enter it into his system. The same manager refused to ring customer services for me one saturday when I asked him to find out which was the trifecta roll over race , he claimed I was confusing the roll over with a scoop6 roll over , and he had never heard of a trifecta roll over in all his years working for the Tote ( now Betfred shop )

[erhaab1965]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

One thing I have noticed a couple of times when going into a bookies are when a race is about to go off' date=' you get a mad rush to the counter with everyone trying to get their bets on. I have seen a few times people going to collect their winnings only to be told that they didn't get the bet on in time. I don't know how it works but when exactly does the cashier know that the bet isn't on? Is it when they put it through the machine to put it on or is it when they flash the slip after the race? I would be extremely frustrated if this happened to me but touch wood it never will.[/quote'] In a lot of bookies I have experienced or witnessed putting bets on races which were not accepted. If I am going to spend an afternoon in a betting shop I tend to accumulate a few winning slips before collecting. Sometimes I have gone to collect on a winner only to be told I put the bet on too late and would only be getting my stake back. This is fair enough , at the time I probably know its close to the off or they have just set off. But I expect to be told immediately , not an hour or more after the event !! When this happens it is a deliberate act of fraud. They are hoping you have backed a loser and they just pocket the money , if you come to collect you get your stake back. I have seen this time and time again over the years in various shops.

[BillyHills]

Re: rule 4 query at Towcester

When this happens it is a deliberate act of fraud. They are hoping you have backed a loser and they just pocket the money

Pretty strong allegation, not sure we should be using those terms to be honest as you have no proof whatsoever or know how the system works in all shops. In my local shop it isn't known whether a bet is too late until the bar code is flashed from the bet receipt, which cant be done until the backer brings it to the counter, whether that be straight after the race or an hour later. Punters sit there all day and rush up at the very last second and its the bookies fault half the time? PS: The punter can always ask the cashier to flash the bet as soon as it is put on just to double check if its void or not before the race has finished, a guy i know who often puts dogs bets on the bell always does this.