harrisman Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 This is something I'm increasingly interested in-How much importance when looking at value do you consider a jockey booking+/- % wise may have on the benefit or otherwise? And I'm not talking here purely about trainer/jockey stats which can be a bit misleading I think. I'm thinking here more about the suitablility of particular jockeys for particular types of horses in particular races.(and possibly particular courses as well!) A couple of examples spring to mind straight away-comparing Hayley turner and cathy gannon for example-both quite different in style and suited I think to quite different types of horses. likewise AP and Paul (and NIna!) Carberry. I may be barking up the wrong tree here but if you consider even a 5% difference in effect in the race with a particular Jockey booking positive or negative regarding a horse is that enough to effect the result especially if it looks like a closely run race. I'm interested particularly here in horses that perhaps didn't run quite as well as expected under a particular jockey and wonder if they may have done better under a different type of rider more suited to the personality of the horse? It may only appear a little thing but if you look how close some handicaps finish, even on the jumps those little things could make the difference between even a head for example. Interested to know others thoughts if at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Re: jockey importance? My view is that there are dozens of competant jockeys out there - if they're on the right horse they'll win. I just don't think there's enough difference between the top few dozen jockeys (basically the ones who ride every day) to make it worthwhile spending time on. And whatever differences there are can't be quantified in advance of the race. Good jockeys do bad rides and bad jockeys do good rides. You don't know in advance which it's going to be so it's just part of the randomness having said that I do have a quick look to see who's won on the horse before and it adds confidence to my selection if todays rider has ..........whoever he/she is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Re: jockey importance? I have to agree with everything you say Trotter. I wish to add , when betting EW or place only / placepots ,avoid jockeys who don't ride out for places. With some jockeys its all or nothing on occassions , when they have no chance of the win then they give up altogether. These jockeys include Pat Eddery , Norman Williamson and of the current crop Richard Hughes.Last year when there was a chance of being champion jockey Richard Hughes gave it everything ,riding out finishes and even accepting a full book of rides for the final few weeks of the season. This year with no apparent chance he riding a lot differently and taking a lot less mounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Re: jockey importance? Also avoid jockeys who may be bent. For many many years i have refused to back J Quinn's mounts.If i fancy a horse which he is riding i will simply not have a bet.On a few occassions it has cost me a winner but on the whole i think i have saved money by not touching his rides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayalexander Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Re: jockey importance? How can you call somewhen a bent jockey when you're speaking out of your pocket? Jimmy Quinn has some great stats on AW for several trainers. That's like me saying McCoy is bent just because I never back the rides he wins! The only way to go about things is to research. http://www.racingpost.com/horses/jockey_home.sd?jockey_id=2496#topJockTabs=jockey_race_record&bottomJockTabs=jockey_stats Let's not turn this thread into something about bent jockeys, though. The OP was interested in jockey bookings, after all. How about Fallon on National Hope, today? Runner was out of form and dismissed in writeups but Fallon's biggest % is on 3yo's - this I knew. No rides for the trainer this year, but 2 in 2 last season - which I didn't know until two mins ago. 4/1 winner Stats are important in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darran Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Re: jockey importance? Frankie never rides out for a place when his horse cant win he even proved it in a Classic this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Re: jockey importance? How can you call somewhen a bent jockey when you're speaking out of your pocket? Jimmy Quinn has some great stats on AW for several trainers. That's like me saying McCoy is bent just because I never back the rides he wins! The only way to go about things is to research. I didn't specifically say Jimmy Quinn was bent , i didn't give a reason why i don't back his rides. Just because he has an OK record on the AW tracks doesn't actually prove anything. You can't say i'm speaking out of my pockets because you don't know the reasoning. To suggest somebody would think a jockey is bent because they always lose when they back them is laughable and niave.I've been punting on horses for over 20 years and i know for certain there are / has been bent jockeys. My original post was to offer betting hints not to debate bent jockeys.Addpea has offered a very recent example of what i was suggesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayalexander Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Re: jockey importance? Also avoid jockeys who may be bent. For many many years i have refused to back J Quinn's mounts.If i fancy a horse which he is riding i will simply not have a bet.On a few occassions it has cost me a winner but on the whole i think i have saved money by not touching his rides. Oh I'm sorry. I saw the word bent and then Jimmy Quinn a few words later and put two and two together :\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Re: jockey importance? If i'm being honest i do think that on a few occassions in the past J Quinn may have done a handbrake job or two. The corruption charges against him that has recently surfaced does not surprise me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileni4uk Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Re: jockey importance? The most important aspect of being a successful (or very bad) punter is "jockeys are always at fault." :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darran Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Re: jockey importance? Oh I'm sorry. I saw the word bent and then Jimmy Quinn a few words later and put two and two together :\ I think everyone would though :rollin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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