trips Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Watching the EPT on TV last night, The Angle shooting by Freitez disgusted me. Wish there was a rule to kick him out,hand is shown in 37.30 min. http://www.channel4.com/programmes/pokerstars-europe-tour-caribbean-adventure/4od/player/3210136 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart(UK) Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT Couldn't agree more with you trips, should receive a tournament ban or something. The worse thing is that he had already done the same thing 2 or 3 other times in the same tournament. Whilst the TD was on top on the situation, I still feel that he should have made him sitout for a circuit or 5 mins or something as a deterent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT ffs - I've had to sit through 5 adverts so far (and counting) trying to get to this....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT Yea but the baggy trousers one was o.k:clap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT I dunno that I find it that bad :$ Think the TD handled it brilliantly (without having a clue how the rules say he should have interpretted the situation) - but can you blame the player for trying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave488 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT I thought it was pretty bad and i know i wouldn't be very happy if some did it to me. The chip leader still called though after the tournament director said he had done this before and he also admitted he had heard of him doing it before, so not the best call. He also said he would have probably called a bigger bet, so the villan actually lost out on some value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT My instinctive thought when I watched it was that it was disgraceful, but on reflection I'd find it hard to articulate why. In poker there are many situations where "dishonesty" is perfectly OK. For example, I can lie about the cards I had last hand, or pretend to be reluctant about calling on the turn, and nobody would think I'd done anything wrong. But there are some kinds of "dishonesty" that are apparently not against the rules but which the vast majority of players think are unethical. Why? It seems to me that, in a game, the rules ought to define what is ethical or unethical (apart from things external to the game, such as physical violence). Of course, there will always be exceptional cases that are borderline legal according to the rules, but the fact that poker actually has a term (angle-shooting) for actions that are not against any rule but are deemed unethical is really an indictment of the fact that poker hasn't bothered to get the rules straight. It seems particularly bad in a game where there's often significant money at stake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raassskkkk Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT I'd like to av seen his reaction if the TD had said 'Ok you don't have to raise,we'll let you just call'......would he have insisted on raising...now that would be funny to see how he actually reacted to that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trips Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT I'd like to av seen his reaction if the TD had said 'Ok you don't have to raise' date='we'll let you just call'......would he have insisted on raising...now that would be funny to see how he actually reacted to that![/quote'] :rollin Would of loved it, I thought he played the turn bad as well, lost value. It's easy with hindsight but i dont think i would call with just top pair after that talk by the TD Having said that caller must have thought he would think that and fold winning hand but how could he be sure TD give caller lowdown.that makes it an easier fold. would have liked to see him smile show his hand and fold then tell him i would of called a bet that size on the turn,and another bet after the river, you lost a lot of chips there.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raassskkkk Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT lol trips yeah just stick it back up him.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acez24 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT My instinctive thought when I watched it was that it was disgraceful, but on reflection I'd find it hard to articulate why. In poker there are many situations where "dishonesty" is perfectly OK. For example, I can lie about the cards I had last hand, or pretend to be reluctant about calling on the turn, and nobody would think I'd done anything wrong. But there are some kinds of "dishonesty" that are apparently not against the rules but which the vast majority of players think are unethical. Why? It seems to me that, in a game, the rules ought to define what is ethical or unethical (apart from things external to the game, such as physical violence). Of course, there will always be exceptional cases that are borderline legal according to the rules, but the fact that poker actually has a term (angle-shooting) for actions that are not against any rule but are deemed unethical is really an indictment of the fact that poker hasn't bothered to get the rules straight. It seems particularly bad in a game where there's often significant money at stake. I see your point slap. Didnt like the play when I first seen it myself and thought it was terrible etiquette. Although there is no rule against this and seems to be a common play for him to extract chips. Opens an interesting debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT More fool the player for calling him and the other players for tilting off to him and ensuring he went on to win. Yes he's a nasty piece of shit but I'm sure he's not worried about that sat in his mud hut in Venezuela counting out his 2 million bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT My instinctive thought when I watched it was that it was disgraceful, but on reflection I'd find it hard to articulate why. In poker there are many situations where "dishonesty" is perfectly OK. For example, I can lie about the cards I had last hand, or pretend to be reluctant about calling on the turn, and nobody would think I'd done anything wrong. But there are some kinds of "dishonesty" that are apparently not against the rules but which the vast majority of players think are unethical. Why? It seems to me that, in a game, the rules ought to define what is ethical or unethical (apart from things external to the game, such as physical violence). Of course, there will always be exceptional cases that are borderline legal according to the rules, but the fact that poker actually has a term (angle-shooting) for actions that are not against any rule but are deemed unethical is really an indictment of the fact that poker hasn't bothered to get the rules straight. It seems particularly bad in a game where there's often significant money at stake. Ayn Rand FTW ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haichan Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT To me the rules are pretty clear For the EPT it states "Floor people are to consider the best interest of the game and fairness as top priority in the decision making process. Unusual circumstances can, on occasion, dictate that the technical interpretation of the rules be ignored in the interest of fairness." He knew the rules that "Verbal declarations in turn are binding". To make a mistake once is possible. To do it 3 times is deliberate. The TD has powers to "A player can be issued the following penalties during any Event: (a) verbal warning, (b) missed hand penalty, © have a hand declared dead, (d) disqualification, or (e) elimination" The problem is ever since they allowed Jamie Gold to bend the rules when he won the 2006 main event, TD's have been reluctant to take real action against rule bending except where their is clear evidence of cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT Ayn Rand FTW ! Bloody hell! What did I do to deserve that??!!?? :loon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeking Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT I'd like to av seen his reaction if the TD had said 'Ok you don't have to raise' date='we'll let you just call'......would he have insisted on raising...now that would be funny to see how he actually reacted to that![/quote'] Thomas Kramer is a very good tournament director, however I believe in this case he allowed himself to be manipulated where he could have enforced his authority more. With it being the third time, I think TD T.K. whilst showing his obvious disgust could have done more for the best interests of the game. With it being the third time, the decision could have been given to the opponent, whether to accept the call and simply showdown or to insist on a minimum raise opening up the betting again. Or even knowing the situation, just get the guy to confirm he tried to call, and then give him a forfeit and penalty for calling with the nuts. I doubt he would try it again after that. Result: Authority and Respect well and truly stamped; :spank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT To me the rules are pretty clear For the EPT it states "Floor people are to consider the best interest of the game and fairness as top priority in the decision making process. Unusual circumstances can, on occasion, dictate that the technical interpretation of the rules be ignored in the interest of fairness." But the problem is that in a game "fairness" is highly subjective if it isn't defined by the rules. If I pretend to have a difficult decision in order to mislead an opponent, then that's perfectly fair in poker, but is cheating in bridge: it's entirely down to the rules. He knew the rules that "Verbal declarations in turn are binding". To make a mistake once is possible. To do it 3 times is deliberate. But he didn't break that rule. He made a verbal declaration and was bound to it. He clearly didn't even want or intend to break that rule. Or even knowing the situation, just get the guy to confirm he tried to call, and then give him a forfeit and penalty for calling with the nuts. He didn't have the nuts. I really think that this supports my point. I'm not saying that what he did was OK; I think it probably should be against the rules. But we have one person saying he should be penalized for breaking the rule that verbal declarations are binding when he clearly had no intention of having his verbal declaration scratched. We have another person saying that he should be penalized for calling with the nuts when he didn't call (according to the rule that verbal declarations are binding) and didn't have the nuts. Assuming you think that what he did was wrong, wouldn't it be better to be able to penalize him because of a rule that says that what he did is wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT Bloody hell! What did I do to deserve that??!!?? :loon :lol When I read your views on this I was thinking exactly the same and thought you may have been a fan of her philosophy as I've always been a fan of self interest and objectivism. So IMO he has done nothing wrong and to hell with the rest of you :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT So IMO he has done nothing wrong and to hell with the rest of you :D Just seen him on the box in a United shirt... you might want to revise your opinion ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jones12345 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Re: Disgusting Angle shooting by Freitez in EPT :lol So IMO he has done nothing wrong and to hell with the rest of you :D I,d like to see you do it on 1 of your many trips to DTD and get out the car park alive :p:p:p:p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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