erhaab1965 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Been following the tote trifecta rollerover race for a few years now can have a shot quite regularly. Any trifecta pool which is not won is carried forward to a specified race each saturday and the pool gets quite big once the big players get stuck in.Its strange that there is no media reference to it even by the tote.I think its a gem of a bet which the pros keep to themselves. This past saturday in the big race Uttoxeter the pool reached £177,000 with the rollover money , paying over £6k compared to £2.5k for the tricast.The normal midweek pool barely exceeds over £500 so is often not won and carried frward to each saturdays big race. Anybody know of a staking plan for this race i often do 400 to 700 lines @ 10p costing £70 which is quite expensive but pays well when i hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. The supporting races on Grand National day had trifecta pools of between £2k and £11k whereas the rollover race the Grand National had £126k with only 20 winning units paying £4.7k compared to £1.9k for the tricast. Massive value in the rollover trifecta race each saturday , for some strange reason there is no promotion even though the pools from over 20 unwon/part won trifectas from midweek are rolledover into this one each saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE % MAN Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. The prob lies with the amount of runners and how many of the field you wish to use before 1 can say You can pick any 9 horses in the field in combination bets so does not matter which finnishes 1st 2nd or 3rd for £50.40 OR ANY 10 FOR £ 72.00 Or if you have a banker or think you could find the winner say from 5 horses in todays race 13 runners providing you could find the winner from those 5 it would cost £13.20p per banker used but a seperate bet would be needed for each banker but if 1 won you must have it up. Only around £550 in the pool today so not worth the risk but maybe a lot more BY TIME OF RACE but if you have a real fancy maybe just A BANKER with any from the rest Like you say if its massive payouts well worth doing but at least by looking at the tote web sight you know when thats the case but not likely today. T%M PS 7474 POOL AT SANDOWN BUT 18 RUNNERS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. 2012 Grand National pool £94k 2012 Scottish National pool £215k ......paid £13k , winner Merigo 15/2 2nd favorite selected by a few members on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Woods Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. erhaab, thanks for bringing this to our attention. I'm always interested in any edge and if you choose your times carefully and are patient, this seems like another good possibility. Is there anywhere that shows historic trifecta data by any chance ? How do you know if there's a rollover for instance as I cant see much on the Tote site itself ? As far as staking plan, I would have thought its more down to how to choose the horses to include rather than a staking plan, as its then just a matter of making a straightforward perm. But then I'm not used to dutching or perming myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. erhaab, thanks for bringing this to our attention. I'm always interested in any edge and if you choose your times carefully and are patient, this seems like another good possibility. Is there anywhere that shows historic trifecta data by any chance ? How do you know if there's a rollover for instance as I cant see much on the Tote site itself ? As far as staking plan, I would have thought its more down to how to choose the horses to include rather than a staking plan, as its then just a matter of making a straightforward perm. But then I'm not used to dutching or perming myself. I did put information in regards to trifectas on the main thread a few days ago , however judging by the response I don't think the punters comprehend this bet or I put the information across in a way they did not understand. Anyway , each day there is a nominated trifecta meeting which only attracts mug money where the trifecta races accumulate an avarage pool of less than £1k . Because so little is bet into these pools they are often not won or part won , with the money rolledover to one race on a saturday afternoon. This information about these races can be view in the Racing Post results section , just look at the bottom of the results of each race and it tells you how big the pool was , the dividend ( if any ) , the winning units and how much is rolled over to saturday.Everyday there will be a few pools not /partly won. Come Saturday the the Trifecta rollover race will have several thousands already in the pool , last Saturday there was probably over £50k dead money. You will find out by ringing or emailing the Tote from Friday afternoon onwards . They no longer publish this information . ( I don't know why , maybe someone at the Tote got a backhander to make this Tote policy ). The avarage pool of a trifecta race is less than £1k , however it is common to see 10 or 20 times more bet into this pool for this one race only , making it a gem of a bet. Even after taking out their percentage it almost always out performs the tricast. Check out the biggest handicaps each saturday and compare them to the supporting races or mid week races. You can go back years and you will see this is a very good bet. This is a bet professionals bet on and they want it to be kept a secret. When I first posted my thread I thought there were a few professional punters on here who did this bet and could share information. Hence my request for a staking plan. Anyway , this is the way i approach this bet . Lets say its a 20 runner handicap . Discard all those who won't get a top 3 placing . From the remainder I pick up to 6 who will come first. Up to any 8 who will come 2nd Up to any 10-12 who will come 3rd. selections can be duplicated to come 1-2-3. i may do a few different combinations of the bet. i try to get it down to around 700 lines or less . You can do a full cover bet of 10 horses which is 720 combinations , but i think it better to cut down on your stakes and do a non full cover perm. Last week if you selected 10 horses ( half the field)in the Scottish National and did full cover costing 720 units , you would have got back over 13,000 units return . Not bad getting 18 times your stake when having half the field working for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroni Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. was never aware of this before and i'm going to start giving this a go i think. how do you know which race has the rollover trifecta though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. was never aware of this before and i'm going to start giving this a go i think. how do you know which race has the rollover trifecta though? Email or ring the Tote from Friday afternoon onwards but confirmation of how much is rolled over won't be confirmed until the following day , however you can keep track by viewing the results section of the Racing Post each day. Last weeks £50k+ rollover is mainly due to the Grand National not being won to more than £1. The biggest rollovers are on the Saturday on / after big meetings such as Royal Ascot / Aintree /Cheltenham/Ebor etc. Last year Royal Ascot saturday £10-£15k pools supporting races , £135k pool rollover race...the Wokingham . however very strong pools in supporting races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Woods Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. Thanks very much for the info. I suspect there must be Tote people doing this as this is the only reason not to advertise rollover figures as they would be a good come-on. Its a shame you can never get to find out what the likely payouts are going to be like the exactas but I can see why. Nevertheless, if there is a lot of dead money in the pool, most of them are going to have a longterm positive expectation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. Thanks very much for the info. I suspect there must be Tote people doing this as this is the only reason not to advertise rollover figures as they would be a good come-on. Its a shame you can never get to find out what the likely payouts are going to be like the exactas but I can see why. Nevertheless' date=' if there is a lot of dead money in the pool, most of them are going to have a longterm positive expectation.[/quote'] You can find out which race it is from Friday afternoon , however I think it is going to be the Whitbread which is always a competive valuable handicap , often the highlight race on C4. I have had a quick glance at the race and based on the look of the race as it is now I will likely to put this bet on: 7 to come first 9 to come second 11 to come 3rd Total lines 504 A full cover bet with 11 will cost 990 lines so narrowing down the potential winner will save a lot of money. I will also do a combination of the above bet with a few taken out in the hope of catching the bet a few times. Don't forget the minimum unit stake is only 10p not £1 !! so it will not cost a fortune ! So far everyday this week there has been a few races each day where the trifecta has not been won , yesterday there were 2 at Epsom . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Woods Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. Sounds as though you know what you're doing and don't really need much advice on the staking plans :) Keep up the good work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. If you go onto their website , they don't mention the rollover anywhere . I suspect this is to allow a minority to profit on this bet each saturday , whether it be Tote staff or their friends and aquaintences . I probably get it up 1 in 3 tries which I am well up unlike the majority of other bets I do. I don't do it as often now because I don't have the studying time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. Sounds as though you know what you're doing and don't really need much advice on the staking plans :) Keep up the good work If you are interested in having a go , I'd suggest having a few trails for a few weekends and see how you get on . Even at 504 lines its £50.40 which is seemingly expensive for a bet which of which £50.30 will ultimately go down the drain if it comes up. If you are not familair with the calculation of perms when you are in a betting shop just fill out a slip with your suggested perm and tell them to put it through to see how much it will cost. If it costs too much just remove 1 selection and put it through again. Keep doing it until you have an affordable perm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Woods Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. If you are interested in having a go , I'd suggest having a few trails for a few weekends and see how you get on . Even at 504 lines its £50.40 which is seemingly expensive for a bet which of which £50.30 will ultimately go down the drain if it comes up. If you are not familair with the calculation of perms when you are in a betting shop just fill out a slip with your suggested perm and tell them to put it through to see how much it will cost. If it costs too much just remove 1 selection and put it through again. Keep doing it until you have an affordable perm. Thanks. I'm interested in anything that can show a logical, mathematical edge, so I certainly will have a go. I dont go into bookies much but will do it all online. Thanks for the tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. As I guessed the other day , the trifecta rollover race is going to be tomorrows 3.10 at Sandown . There is £14557 of dead money in the pot already. I have asked the Tote why they don't publish details of this rollover each week on many ocassions including today and each time they avoid answering , usually they just give a link to their Tote pool site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Woods Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. Thanks for the info. It was strange yesterday when I phoned the Tote. It was as though I was talking to the woman in a foreign language and she had to go off and get some advice from a colleague for about five minutes before she got back to me to tell me it was the 3.10. She didnt know what the rollover figure was at the time. Some customer support teams just know the absolute basics and any question slightly out of the norm puts them on tilt. Same with Betfair..Hey,ho.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. Thanks for the info. It was strange yesterday when I phoned the Tote. It was as though I was talking to the woman in a foreign language and she had to go off and get some advice from a colleague for about five minutes before she got back to me to tell me it was the 3.10. She didnt know what the rollover figure was at the time. Some customer support teams just know the absolute basics and any question slightly out of the norm puts them on tilt. Same with Betfair..Hey' date='ho....[/quote'] Was out of town doing the shopping this morning and I went into a Betfred shop . I asked the cashier which was the " rollover race " ( I was just interested in her reply because I already knew ) she replied theres no rollover today because we don't do the Jackpot on Saturdays. I then said I meant the trifecta rollover so she checked on her monitor which only gave a list of trifecta races , no info on any roll over. I asked the manager to find out from customer services and he refused because he and his staff have never heard of the Trifecta rollover , he insinuated I was wrong and got it confused with the Jackpot rollovers. This has happened many times over the years in various betting shops , they were genuinely clueless . There must be a reason for keeping this bet a secret , I think it is to line a few peoples pockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. At this minute , the Tote live information site is saying the £0 in the trifecta pool , however other pools have money in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroni Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. hope that pool gets abit bigger, i've had ago at this today managed to narrow it down to 8 horses so 336 lines my selections are Tidal Bay West End Rocker Rare Bob Tullamore Dew Le Beau Bai Swing Bill Roalco De Farges Major Malarkey probably won't even get 1 in the places knowing my luck recently but worth a shot if that pot is big Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Woods Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. Well that was a nice start. 9 chosen for £50.40 and returned £253.52. See the tricast would have just returned £102.90, so great value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. hope that pool gets abit bigger, i've had ago at this today managed to narrow it down to 8 horses so 336 lines my selections are Tidal Bay West End Rocker Rare Bob Tullamore Dew Le Beau Bai Swing Bill Roalco De Farges Major Malarkey probably won't even get 1 in the places knowing my luck recently but worth a shot if that pot is big Unlucky to only get the 1-2. Hope you have better luck next time. I see you did a full cover perm with your 8 selections. You can make your bet a little cheaper by reducing the number of horses to win and having the 8 to come 2nd/3rd ,just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. Well that was a nice start. 9 chosen for £50.40 and returned £253.52. See the tricast would have just returned £102.90' date=' so great value.[/quote'] Well done i too got it up to 10p for a £50.40 perm , whilst your was a full cover bet of 9 selections mine consisted of : 7 to win 9 to come 2nd 11 to come 3rd Still a 504 unit perm , but taking a bigger chance on the winner. Anyway 5 times your money returned with nearly half the field working for you , great value isn't it ? I don't know what the final pool was but a few minutes before the off it was around £40k , even bigger than the win pool !! Also the dividend paid a lot more than the tricast as is the norm. You can find out the full details in the results section of the Racing Post when it eventually comes through . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroni Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. great stuff erhaab and A Woods. the race didn't quite work out as i thought but hopefully i'll do better next time. When you say you had 7 to win 9 to come 2nd etc... does that mean you have your 7 to win included in the 2nd and 3rd aswell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Woods Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. Well done i too got it up to 10p for a £50.40 perm , whilst your was a full cover bet of 9 selections mine consisted of : 7 to win 9 to come 2nd 11 to come 3rd Still a 504 unit perm , but taking a bigger chance on the winner. Anyway 5 times your money returned with nearly half the field working for you , great value isn't it ? I don't know what the final pool was but a few minutes before the off it was around £40k , even bigger than the win pool !! Also the dividend paid a lot more than the tricast as is the norm. You can find out the full details in the results section of the Racing Post when it eventually comes through . Well done. What I find strange is that they dont seem to quote the pool size at any stage. Or at least, I couldnt see it anywhere. They seem to be deliberately keeping it as secret as possible from every angle. But if over 30% of the final pool consisted of the rollover then it really is great value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. Well done. What I find strange is that they dont seem to quote the pool size at any stage. Or at least' date=' I couldnt see it anywhere. They seem to be deliberately keeping it as secret as possible from every angle. But if over 30% of the final pool consisted of the rollover then it really is great value. I made enquiries in 2 Betfred shops today and both managers had never heard about Trifecta rollovers , one said she had been a manager for 20 years. The online customer service reply just fobbed me off saying check out the Totepool site, I genuinely think most employees are not in the loop in regards to this bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. Final pool £58k+ , £17.10 winning units. The pools in the supporting races didn't exceed £2k , obviously those in the know are lumping on just once a week , capitalizing on the mug punters who feed the midweek pools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. great stuff erhaab and A Woods. the race didn't quite work out as i thought but hopefully i'll do better next time. When you say you had 7 to win 9 to come 2nd etc... does that mean you have your 7 to win included in the 2nd and 3rd aswell I like to put them on in the shops using the quick slips. There is a section with 3 columns for 1st 2nd and 3rd which is what i prefer. In the 1st section I will tick the ones I really fancy , in the 2nd column I will repeat these horses and maybe add a couple more and in the 3rd column I will repeat these horses and add a few outsiders which may come 3rd. This way it reduces my total outlay. There is a full cover section where you pick your fancies and they will all be fully covered but it will cost the maximum. So 7 horses 210 , 8 horses 336 ,9 horse 504 , 10 horses 720 ..... Hope you can understand what I've said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. It is simple to calculate the number of lines in your perm. It is the total number of selections multiplied by itself minus 1 mutiplied by itself minus 2. Eg : 10 horses 10 x 9 x 8 = 720 9 horses 9 x 8 x 7 = 504 8 horse 8 x 7 x 6 = 336 7 horses 7 x 6 x 5 = 210 For a non full cover perm the formula is similar with a few adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erhaab1965 Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. Saturday , Newmarket race4 3.45 , £15,401 rolled over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Woods Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Re: Wanted !! tricast/trifecta staking plan. At the last minute I removed the winner from my perm. Doh :$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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