Tricky spot with combo draw

[Nade]

On a deep stacked ante table so everyone is playing looser than normal and villain has been the most aggro on the table up to this point. No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com BB ($210.90) UTG ($96) Hero (MP) ($190.40) CO ($76.75) Button ($343.75) SB ($283.30) Preflop: Hero is MP with 8, 7 1 fold, Hero bets $4.70, CO calls $4.70, 1 fold, SB calls $4.20, BB calls $3.70 Flop: ($18.80) 6, 10, K (4 players) SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $13, 2 folds, BB raises $38, Hero calls $25 Turn: ($94.80) 7 (2 players) BB bets $52 On the flop i really felt though he was aggressive he was never folding after c/r this flop so i didn't see any merit in re-raising as i likely get it in behind. The turn i pick up a pair and he bets about half pot so the pot was about $145 i was getting nearly 3:1 with $100 behind if i call. His play on the turn seemed really tricky as i didn't think he's ever folding on the flop then puts out a little bet on the turn it seemed pretty trappy to me but is there merit to shoving here with all the outs?

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Tricky spot with combo draw The question is (as usual), what range do you put him on? If you go something like TT, 66, A2h-AQh, QJ, KT, J9h, Q9h, then you're actually 55% on the turn, and that's leaving out random flush draws that are worse than yours.

[Nade]

Re: Tricky spot with combo draw I put him on a very strong range like i said in the OP at least a combo draw/2pair. I've just stoved most of the range before it blew up on me and it was coming up as me being a 40-60 dog without most of the AhXh possibilities cus it blew up. So it looks like against that range we're rarely getting it in good at all in a potential 380bb pot.

[ELCAKER]

Re: Tricky spot with combo draw You cash game maestros know alot more than I do about this particular area of the game so I dont expect that anything I say would be correct. However this would be my take on the situation. He was happy to call pre flop - so probably doesnt have a monster - surely he'd be re-raising with ak or any pair bigger than 99-aa. He then checks to re-raise your bet. Now without knowing any previous that you two may have, (ie he thinks he can bluff you) we have to asume that he has a large part of this flop. My thoughts would be heading towards 2 pair, does k10 fit the bill? MAybe I am giving him too much credit but that is a pretty raggedy flop so what can he realistically be representing with his re-raise. If he hasnt hit it, at least the king, then he surely has AhXh. You of course have a very playable hand but not one i personally would want to shove with as I dont think he's folding and you need to hit. I understand that just calling is not often the correct play but here it looks like he has bet around half the pot, so you are being laid 3/1 on making the call. Any 7 or any 9 i think definitely wins you the pot and there's a strong chance that you can add any heart as well, plus if he's just playing something like KQ then an 8 also could be good. F**k! This is tough. If you think he's got 2 pair then I'd just call, as there's a strong chance he'll pay you off if you hit. And as you say it is ptentially a 390bb pot... If you think he could be making the re-raise with the bare K then maybe shoving is the play. Please feel free to explain why my novice plays are just no good! :lol

[Villagio]

Re: Tricky spot with combo draw I'm probably shoving the flop, I dont mind getting it in here (if I can get it in first with FE anyway) against most players. If he's been aggro lately that swings it for an insta-shove for me. We make our money in these spots by getting villains to fold better hands some of the time (1 pair/better draws), but having a lot of equity most of the time when called anyway. Unless he shows up with exactly QhJh (or AhTh i guess, both in his range) i'm happy, as long as I get it in first. I think we've got a bunch of FE personally, your line (p/f raiser, lead into 4 people, reraise a c/r) would look so strong he'll have to fold a bunch of hands that beat us right now. As played though I probably just call the turn. He's commited now so no point raising. We've now got some showdown value (not much, granted) and getting 5:1 implied odds to hit.

[Nade]

Re: Tricky spot with combo draw That was pretty much spot on Elcaker :ok No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com BB ($210.90) UTG ($96) Hero (MP) ($190.40) CO ($76.75) Button ($343.75) SB ($283.30) Preflop: Hero is MP with 8, 7 1 fold, Hero bets $4.70, CO calls $4.70, 1 fold, SB calls $4.20, BB calls $3.70 Flop: ($18.80) 6, 10, K (4 players) SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $13, 2 folds, BB raises $38, Hero calls $25 Turn: ($94.80) 7 (2 players) BB bets $52, Hero calls $52 River: ($198.80) J (2 players) BB checks, Hero checks Total pot: $198.80 Results: BB had 10, K (two pair, Kings and tens). Hero had 8, 7 (one pair, sevens). Outcome: BB won $197 I think there can be an illusion of fold equity sometimes to try and justify getting all the chips in but i really don't think it's necessary 200bbs deep. Ok, i look kind of strong betting into 4players but that makes the c/r look even stronger so if we're shoving here we're only getting called by better and folding out all the hands we beat IMO.

[glceud]

Re: Tricky spot with combo draw

I think there can be an illusion of fold equity sometimes to try and justify getting all the chips in but i really don't think it's necessary 200bbs deep. Ok' date=' i look kind of strong betting into 4players but that makes the c/r look even stronger so if we're shoving here we're only getting called by better and folding out all the hands we beat IMO.[/quote'] So protecting your hand is not in your game plan? Results orientated as per norm

[Nade]

Re: Tricky spot with combo draw One line of thought is to get all the money in with a draw backed up with fold equity, the argument against is in this situation fold equity is over-estimated because nobody is going to be c/r folding at 100nl in this spot - their range is uber strong and we essentially have 8high. There's no hand to protect - we have 8high. Villagio's point of getting someone to fold a better hand i like a lot and could be spot on in this situation against a weaker player, i don't think it would work against the strong opponent in this hand though. Then again is a weaker player c/r folding in this spot probably not so you've just got play it by situation. We can learn a lot from the results of this hand (and most hands) though because the main contention point is what was villain c/r us with on a big drawy board considering we bet into 4players. The answer is a big hand (2pair) is he ever c/r with the intention of folding to a shove? no. So we add this to our knowledge/ experience of what range of hands people turn up with when they play their hands like that in these situations. My initial feeling was right which is why i just called the flop bet - that comes with knowledge/ experience. Feel free to put up your own hand histories GLC, if you ever play.

[glceud]

Re: Tricky spot with combo draw

Feel free to put up your own hand histories GLC, if you ever play.

I havent played cash tables for a couple of years so I would take anything I post in here with the pinch of salt it deserves:ok

[Paul176]

Re: Tricky spot with combo draw I like the way you played this Nade. If it's 100bb deep though we should be stacking off on the flop.