Nade Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I probably mostly 3bet with AQ but in this situation i had 3bet this guy a couple of times recently and i felt he had a strong hand so definitely wouldn't fold and may have 4bet his entire range so elected to call. Villain is airing on the side of loose aggressive playing about 30/23 but after only about 50hands; he has folded to a couple of my 3bets already. No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com Button ($97) SB ($102.15) BB ($100) UTG ($112.10) MP ($119.60) Hero (CO) ($95) Preflop: Hero is CO with A, Q 1 fold, MP bets $3.50, Hero calls $3.50, 3 folds Flop: ($8.50) 7, 10, Q (2 players) MP checks, Hero checks Turn: ($8.50) 3 (2 players) MP bets $5, Hero raises $17, MP calls $12 River: ($42.50) 4 (2 players) MP checks, On the flop i check behind as i'm suspicious of his check as i was expecting on this flop he would cbet every time plus i have great showdown value if needed. The turn his bet adds to the oddness of checking the flop but even in the worst case scenario i have a solid amount of equity with the Ace diamond. Then he checks again on the river so it's an odd line to take. The question is how much value is there in betting the river? We've kind of represented a flush so he may only call down with v strong hands that beat us or he may think we were bluffing or semi-bluffing the turn so call us down lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Re: Value bet the river? think top pair top kicker would warrant a value bet on the river in most circumstances, however there's a few things that make me think the checks a better idea. admittedly his line does seem a little strange tho,doesnt look very lag does it looks more tight or trappy:unsure how aggressive have you been? do you think he thinks your gonna bet the river,if you see what i mean.by the sounds of it you've been fairly aggressive till now,maybe he sees that as an opportunity:unsure if so he may have a monster and is waiting for that value sized bet (say around $30)on the river.that's about half your stack in then and puts you in a bad position if he does come back over the top:loon you have top pair top kicker and may well be ahead vs a laggy player,so its not an easy fold to make if you do get checkraised. i also dont think the value bet is much use here because there are a lot of possible hands that could call and beat you but not many that can call and lose ,maybe kq qj a10 k10 .even then i think i'd be folding 2nd pair here to your raise on the turn ,with straight/flush possibilitys and an overcard it isnt the sort of hand i'd wanna be getting into a big pot with. so i think your gonna either win a little or lose a lot with the value bet here,so i think you played it correctly:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Re: Value bet the river? I totally agree Uber very little value in betting the river unless the guy is an absolute donk and has been overvaluing hands that Uber has mentioned. Very situational of course and the guy could put you on a total bluff but I'm checking a very large % of the time here. Wouldn't surprise me if he has trips and was scared of the diamond and is happy to check call to minimise any losses or maximise if you are on a bluff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Re: Value bet the river? i was sort of thinking he might have the flush myself,maybe he was gonna check raise on the flop and you checked behind. he puts in a little bet on the turn to try and tempt you in and calls your raise thinking you have a little something ,hoping to trap you on the river maybe:unsure if so i reckon he might have a k high or maybe j high flush so is less worried about possibly getting outdrawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 Re: Value bet the river? Good analysis guys i was thinking much the same so checked behind and he showed a set of tens. I think it was interesting to see how as uber says in most situations a vbet with top top is standard but some more analysis it can sometimes be wrong. I've been prone to value-towning myself lately so good to see i'm getting back to good thought processes as it was similar to you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennon Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Re: Value bet the river? I probably mostly 3bet with AQ but in this situation i had 3bet this guy a couple of times recently and i felt he had a strong hand so definitely wouldn't fold and may have 4bet his entire range so elected to call. Villain is airing on the side of loose aggressive playing about 30/23 but after only about 50hands; he has folded to a couple of my 3bets already. This doesn't really make sense ... so you 3bet him a few times and he keeps playing loose and raising often ... dunno why you feel he would have a strong hand all of the sudden ... this is a perfect time to 3bet and shove over his light 4bet ... you have to assume he's going to play back at some point As played I would bet around 18-22 on the river ... can't see him plaing 2 pair+ like this ... edit: Just saw result ... owned .. haha .. still stand by my reasoning though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Re: Value bet the river? 'His entire range' as in his entire opening range in this situation taking into account game flow i really felt his hand was strong enough that he definitely wouldn't fold to a 3bet so if i think he has a strong range i'm in a coin flip at best with AQ. I didn't say he had kept raising even though i 3bet him a couple of times he was just playing 30/23 over 50hands which is a small sample so he was playing pretty much TAG verging on LAG. If he was playing 45/35 then i'd always ship a 5bet shove with AQ over his bet as i'd expect not only his opening range to be real wide but there's the tilt factor too as i've been 3betting he's more than likely to start 4betting lighter than AQ. But against a 30/23 we only have 50hands on and who hasn't gotten out of line drastically so far shipping over the guys first 4bet would be a high variance play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweetypie05 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Re: Value bet the river? Stupid question, not really got into hand analysis in depth as I am a 'casual' and lazy player, but what does 30/23 represent? Flops seen/raises on flop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Re: Value bet the river? Stupid question, not really got into hand analysis in depth as I am a 'casual' and lazy player, but what does 30/23 represent? Flops seen/raises on flop? 30/23 would be VPIP/PFR VPIP=Voluntarily put money in pot - how often you get into hands PFR= Pre flop raise - how aggressive you are pre flop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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