beuher2000 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Hi, in order to test my model, I am looking for spreadsheets in excel (csv) format with historical data for correct score odds. Football-data is fine but it misses the correct score odds. If someone added them for one season for example, it would be very nice to share. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KThom Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> Hi Beuher, I am also trawling through looking for this data. The best I can find so far is http://www.mabels-tables.co.uk/oddsfiles/ Ideally I would like to find a correlation between the match odds and correct score odds (In a similar way to the betting slips that show the scorecast odds, based on correct score and first goalscorer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datapunter Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> should be possible to extract a set from the betfair historical data, ( if anyone's got the time to do it ? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> Hi Beuher, I am also trawling through looking for this data. The best I can find so far is http://www.mabels-tables.co.uk/oddsfiles/ Ideally I would like to find a correlation between the match odds and correct score odds (In a similar way to the betting slips that show the scorecast odds, based on correct score and first goalscorer) Thanks for answer. I knew mabels tables but as they are not free i was searching for another way. Moreover it seems their data is stopped at 2002-2003 as they say in file details so it s a bit old. Did you buy them ? If yes you can tell me if there are recent data in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KThom Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> Thanks for answer. I knew mabels tables but as they are not free i was searching for another way. Moreover it seems their data is stopped at 2002-2003 as they say in file details so it s a bit old. Did you buy them ? If yes you can tell me if there are recent data in it? I've not bought the data for the reasons you gave above - it doesn't really tie in with my analysis. There are a few free snippets of data available within the site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> should be possible to extract a set from the betfair historical data, ( if anyone's got the time to do it ? ) betfair data is such in a raw form i think it would be very time-consuming... The ideal format would be to add mabels-like data in the football-data spreadsheets. Does someone know where we can find the correct score odds except betfair data , mabels and fracsoft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> Alternatively i knew some site with spreadbetting historical data but it wasnt in excel format and i forgot the name of the site. If someone could recall me the name, it would be nice. Another interesting data to get would be the goal times in each match in an excel format... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KThom Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> betfair data is such in a raw form i think it would be very time-consuming... The ideal format would be to add mabels-like data in the football-data spreadsheets. Does someone know where we can find the correct score odds except betfair data , mabels and fracsoft? Where is the betfair historical data? I can't seem to find it on the main page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> Where is the betfair historical data? I can't seem to find it on the main page betfair historical data is sold by fracsoft now i think. in the past u could download it on betfair site if you have enough customer points. google fracsoft too or here http://data.betfair.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> problem with fracsoft is that it s not a league data it s match by match data which is good for analysing a specific match but if you want to do statistics it 's useless except if you buy thousand matchs (0.68p each match :( ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KThom Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> I think the best thing for me is to analyse as I go forward, and forget about trying to back track. There is probably a pre set formula that bookmaking models use to calculate each correct score based upon the team match odds - its just that i don't know it :unsure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> It isn't very time consuming to aggregate the betfair historical data to find the last price matched before the market goes in-play. It just requires some effort............or the learning of some new skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppet77 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> there is a very simple way. collect a footy coupon from the bookies that you are interest in. turn it over. on the reverse is usually a table with home match odds down the left hand column. across the top is score and read off the odds. eg from ladbrokes a few years back - domestic only. (different grid for uefa cup). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> It isn't very time consuming to aggregate the betfair historical data to find the last price matched before the market goes in-play. It just requires some effort............or the learning of some new skills. huh if i want one season back i must grab each match one by one... i knew that method lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> there is a very simple way. collect a footy coupon from the bookies that you are interest in. turn it over. on the reverse is usually a table with home match odds down the left hand column. across the top is score and read off the odds. eg from ladbrokes a few years back - domestic only. (different grid for uefa cup). very interesting muppet you mean this table gives the correct score odds from the win/draw odds? This is wat Kthom was talking about... amazing they reveal these informations... do you know where to find the table? i live in france so there are no bookies.... :) maybe could you send me that picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppet77 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> Look on bookmakers websites and compile a table yourself by looking at the games that they price up. Obviously these are not the fair or true odds but have an overround included. To get true odds you could tally up each score line by home odds using past data from football data dot co dot uk . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> Look on bookmakers websites and compile a table yourself by looking at the games that they price up. Obviously these are not the fair or true odds but have an overround included. To get true odds you could tally up each score line by home odds using past data from football data dot co dot uk . problem is i don't believe that score odds are unique for a certain win/draw odds set. for example, if team1 is expected to score 3 goals and team2 1 goal, it may have same win/draw /lose odds as the case team1 1.5 goals and team2 0.3 goals but correct score odds will surely be different because higher scores will be more likely even if win odds are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datapunter Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> problem is i don't believe that score odds are unique for a certain win/draw odds set. i'd also say that a bit too simple, it may be possible for a bookmaker to apply a blanket method for setting the odds but that is only the case because he then applies a huge overround on the market. That overround basically covers the gap between value and not. In other words the gap by the overround is big enough so he doesn't have to finetune his odds any further. If you're looking for value from a betting point of view you need to overcome that overround, therefore you do need more accuracy. I got a Java program somewhere i made to extract tennis data from the Betfair historic files. Should be fairly easy to adapt for football and correct score market. Only bit extra would then be to filter out the odds before kickoff, also not too difficult. Tricky part then comes matching up the different matches with the data from footballdata.co.uk ( if Betfair has "Man Utd" and footballdata.co.uk uses "Manchester United" then you need to somehow match them manually ) Still, even if you only do one competition and one season it should provide a usefull picture. Let me know if anyone wants to have a go at it and i'll dig it up. ( you need basic Java programming skills as it's a bit "rough" ) Just promise to come back and post the results here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> i'd also say that a bit too simple, it may be possible for a bookmaker to apply a blanket method for setting the odds but that is only the case because he then applies a huge overround on the market. That overround basically covers the gap between value and not. In other words the gap by the overround is big enough so he doesn't have to finetune his odds any further. If you're looking for value from a betting point of view you need to overcome that overround, therefore you do need more accuracy. 100% agree with you. I got a Java program somewhere i made to extract tennis data from the Betfair historic files. Should be fairly easy to adapt for football and correct score market. Only bit extra would then be to filter out the odds before kickoff, also not too difficult. Tricky part then comes matching up the different matches with the data from footballdata.co.uk ( if Betfair has "Man Utd" and footballdata.co.uk uses "Manchester United" then you need to somehow match them manually ) Still, even if you only do one competition and one season it should provide a usefull picture. Let me know if anyone wants to have a go at it and i'll dig it up. ( you need basic Java programming skills as it's a bit "rough" ) Just promise to come back and post the results here. can you still download betfair data or did they give all soccer data to fracsoft? anyway i wish i could program something to extract the data from betfair files but i looked once at those files and they re not well ordered... but basically i imagine u scan all file and with ID u can reorder data? would be so simple for them to keep a track of pre match odds for each match... But i would be happy to have a look datapunter. Another way: odds comparison sites dont give any historic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datapunter Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> Another way: odds comparison sites dont give any historic? Some but it will cost you. can you still download betfair data or did they give all soccer data to fracsoft? fracsoft is independent from the betfair historic data, looks like they still provide the data. Can you handle a MySQL database ? Not really a way around using some database for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> Some but it will cost you. fracsoft is independent from the betfair historic data, looks like they still provide the data. Can you handle a MySQL database ? Not really a way around using some database for this. yes i dream of a database with all those soccer data (odds,goal times, weather etc :D ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> i tried with ladbrokes to get historical data but it seems they didnt understand my request :D can someone help me? I understood that as odds move before the match they cant give a unique odds set... am I right? here's the mail sequence: Dear Mr J, Thank you for your reply. I regret to inform you that this is not something we can offer you as for each game the prices may differ, which means the information may not be accurate. I do apologise for any inconvenience caused. If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us again and we will be more than happy to help you. Kind Regards Emma Wilcox http://www.gambleaware.co.uk Original Message Follows: ------------------------ Thanks for answering so quickly. I understand what you say but in the past you had those indications on the reverse of your football coupon. Then i wanted to know if you provide historical data about those correct score odds. For example a spreadsheet with all premier league matches for 2008/2009 with corresponding correct score odds. (in excel or csv or txt format) Best regards, Benoit J --- En date de : Lun 8.6.09, [email protected] [email protected]> a écrit : > De: [email protected] [email protected]> > Objet: Re: numerized coupon for footballl > À: > Date: Lundi 8 Juin 2009, 15h01 > Dear Mr J, > > Thank you for your e-mail. > > The correct score odds will vary from match to match > depending on which > teams are taking part. If you could provide us with a > specific match we > may be able to assist. > > If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us > again and we > will be more than happy to help you. > > > Yours sincerely, > > Stephen Troy > Customer Services > > http://www.gambleaware.co.uk > > Original Message Follows: > ------------------------ > > Hi, > > I wanted to know if you could send me the table which > gives the correct > score odds corresponding to Win/Draw odds. This table was > on the back of > your paper coupons. > > Best regards. > > Benoit J > > > > > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datapunter Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> They (ladbrokes) have no interest in providing that data do they. They could provide the data using the odds at which the market was settled, but not sure they still have all the odds for all selections. They have a results service which lists the odds but only for the winning selection. Anyhow, i found a Java program that filters out the correct score odds from the historic data but does nothing more than that. It basically reduces a 150Mb file down to 15Mb. You could filter it down some more by excluding all in-running data as well as records with very low volume. End result should fit nicely into excel. I've also found one that filters the same data and puts it into 2 simple MySQL tables. Reduces the data further down to a few Mb and obviously allows for database searches. I do need to clean them up a bit and perhaps do a test with the latest data files. (i wrote them in 2006 :lol) If i give you these programs can you work with them ? If so i'll have a look wednesday, if not i won't put any time into it, ( unless you find another volunteer to pick it up) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> Sounds like a great opportunity to learn beuher2000!!!! You are almost being spoon-fed some clever stuff......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> Ok datapunter i can try to use your program. It s very kind from you. do I have to give you my mail adress or do you post it here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> Sounds like a great opportunity to learn beuher2000!!!! You are almost being spoon-fed some clever stuff......... Dude dunno what you have against me... Be sure that someone like datapunter would be the first i would give my results if he wants them (i believe he will even if it s not magic formula) And i always wanted to learn some method to build that precious database from web scrapping or other way. So please help us instead of repeating same things over and over. I wont type odds for each match manually because i want a huge database. Once i began to type goal times for one league and it was very boring so i know what i m talking about i typed only 6 monthes and i stopped. Before doing that way again i m looking for a smarter way so chill mate and leave me alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datapunter Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> Damn, homework :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webkid90 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> I knew mabels tables but as they are not free i was searching for another way. Moreover it seems their data is stopped at 2002-2003 as they say in file details so it s a bit old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> I knew mabels tables but as they are not free i was searching for another way. Moreover it seems their data is stopped at 2002-2003 as they say in file details so it s a bit old. yes maybe someone who bought them can confirm that data is stopped in 2003... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beuher2000 Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 Re: <<<Soccer Correct Score Odds Historical Data>>> i tried with betexplorer.... no way!! Hello, Thank you for your email. At present, we don't provider any data in other form than by browsing the site for an internet user. Regards Tom Langer BetExplorer.com > Hi, > > > I wanted to know if you provide access to your database by excel > spreadsheets for example. especially the goal times in soccer matches for > each match in a season? For example spreadsheets like football-data.co.uk > provides. > > Thanks > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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