Should I be Betting This River

[Punto Banco]

I am happy enough with my play this hand all they way perhaps bar the river... simply put the way in which I decided to play this hand I believe now I should be check/calling the river rather than betting out... board is sooo draw heavy checked down with 2 others... I think I just got swept up in improving my hand thinking a poorer A or a 10 will call this... ***** Hand 1326495479 ***** 0.12/0.25 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - Wednesday, 19 November 2008 6:27:38 AM Turbo TH 174 (Real/Cash Game) Seat 1: mrblood (12.63) Seat 2: Pasion42 (10.25) Seat 3: OldRknight (25.00) Seat 5: RayPenber (30.82) Seat 6: Bar0` (26.33) Seat 7: Badoc (17.87) Seat 8: ***MiB***1 (21.88) Seat 9: pedrito65 (7.25) Seat 10: jeges1975 (24.40) Seat 4: @$%^ (23.52) @$%^ post SB 0.12 RayPenber post BB 0.25 ** Deal ** mrblood [N/A, N/A] Pasion42 [N/A, N/A] OldRknight [N/A, N/A] RayPenber [Ks, Ad] Bar0` [N/A, N/A] Badoc [N/A, N/A] ***MiB***1 [N/A, N/A] pedrito65 [N/A, N/A] jeges1975 [N/A, N/A] @$%^ [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** Bar0` Call 0.25 Badoc Fold ***MiB***1 Fold pedrito65 Fold jeges1975 Fold mrblood Call 0.25 Pasion42 Fold OldRknight Fold @$%^ Fold RayPenber Check *** Flop(Board): *** : [9s, Ac, 8c] *** Bet Round 2 *** RayPenber Check Bar0` Check mrblood Check *** Turn(Board): *** : [9s, Ac, 8c, 10s] *** Bet Round 3 *** RayPenber Check Bar0` Check mrblood Check *** River(Board): *** : [9s, Ac, 8c, 10s, As] *** Bet Round 4 *** RayPenber Bet 0.87 Bar0` Fold mrblood All-in 12.38 RayPenber Fold *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.10 Total Pot: 2.51 mrblood By default Win: 2.51

[muttley]

Re: Should I be Betting This River You should have bet on the flop. Once the 8,9,10 are out you're flying blind.

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Should I be Betting This River I dont play full ring but im guessing it isnt standard to check BB to limpers with AK? I think you should probably have bet the flop but as played I cant see much of a problem b/f'ing the river to eek a bit of value from any old shit they might call with.

[Belgareth]

Re: Should I be Betting This River I dont really see a massive problem betting the river, although i'm not much of a cash player. Your bet on the river is going to get paid off more often then not and be ahead with the way betting has been on this hand. So its got to be a good bet for the long term. If he is a super agressive player he may put you on a weak hand as you have not shown any strength all the way and be trying to push you off, but if he has been doing this a lot you may be able to use this against him later with a stronger hand. I would also recommend a bit of strength earlier in the hand even if its just to find out where you stand. But you say your happy with your play till the river is there a reason why you didnt show any strength earlier in the hand ? But good luck at the tables hope you managed to make it a winning session.

[Blatch]

Re: Should I be Betting This River Personally I cant bet the river as its open up the move of people re raising. I would probably check call any reasonable bet from the players. Dont take this the wrong way but I dont like the way you have played the hand at all. You have to raise pre flop really with Ak, if not only to define your hand. Then you can re assess and the whole hand is played differently.

[Thommo85]

Re: Should I be Betting This River For me you have to raise the bb with ak off, although once you hit your ace with a potential straight and flush draw out there I would have bet the flop also to prevent someone catching a free card. I think if you were right to bet out if you thought your hand was ahead on the river and wanted paid off, personally I think you were probably ahead in the hand and have been bullied off what could potentially have been a rather sizeable pot.

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Should I be Betting This River yeah i would have check called the river as well i think,you show a little strength on the river and he pushes,sounds very much like he had a strong hand and was checking it thru so someone might hit on a drawy board.he probably hopes you hit your straight or flush and may pay him off;) there are so many different hands that have you beat that i cant really see the value in the call on the river,you don't have a lot invested so an easy fold. if you checked the river he probably would have put in a smallish value bet and you would have probably have lost the same amount by calling .at least you would know what he had and you might even be up against aq aj but i dont think so. i would have played it a bit different earlier as well ,at the moment by flat call/checking we have no idea what the other guy has:unsure

[Punto Banco]

Re: Should I be Betting This River The reason way I did not raise pre flop was pretty specific... I had been at this table a little while (Other than this a few of these players have been at my table before)... multiple times players had seen me open up with a pot/near pot raise after limpers (ALWAYS in late pos... who knows if they pay attention though) In this situation playing the hand out of pos the entire hand I would be raising over the pot here simply to take it down pre flop as best possible result generally speaking even IF I hit with a hand like AK (though If a Q comes I can just as easily bet out as with a paired board etc) I am playing small pot poker anyways (unless I hit amazingly well) in which case my hand is well defined as big due to my big raise pre in poor position... ... so now I am raising big playing the hand out of position to likely callers (as they have seen me raise like this many times... may or may not realise my position) and my hand has little mistique... basically I know a hand like AK is a strong hand pre flop and after the flop... after that its dead (or at least my betting is).... in this hand If I say raise the pot (modest estimate) and one caller (another modest estimate considering the players) the pot is now $2.37... this flop comes and I bet out 2/3 the pot and my opponent calls (sure he could fold but this is a what if scenario) pot is now $5.37... the turn makes this hand very dangerous for 2 pair, pair/flush/straight draws however it is probably better to give the free card considering I may already be behind... so I check... ... now he may check or bet If he checks It is simply a rinse and repeat of the actual hand except now my odds for calling his all in are much better and I have a decision to make... If he bets I seriously have another tough decision and may either fold or call and calling his turn bet 100% commits me to him all in on the river... Now obviously I did not run through all of this during the 10 seconds I had to think however me playing this hand in a medium-big pot against these players with this type of hand out of position did not seem like the best idea (truly I cannot see this as worse than a 50/50 decision to raise or check here)... Two things: I checked on the flop with all intention of check raising the sh*t out of the pot.... check raising Is by far the better option as it shows obvious strength which will allow me to determine my hand strength in comparison to his for the turn and play accordingly (basically a call will indicate a draw as I have shown enough for him to fold his shit... raise his nuts... and call his draws at bad odds)... I am happy in that belief though him may simply call a set I think that with so many draws I simply can not see it... keep in mind most of this is hypothetical... Secondly I realise now that BY FAR I should be check calling the river... betting shows its obvious flaws here and with Top pair Check calling will ALWAYS be the best play at this level bar playing against very specific well known opponents... .... May be a bit jumbled feel free to comment or query...:ok

[Belgareth]

Re: Should I be Betting This River The more I read cash analysis the more I realise I'm a tournie player. :notworthy

[pokerlife]

Re: Should I be Betting This River Ryan. checking the flop is correct. you have to bet the turn however for a few reasons: firstly: your hand is a strong favourite to be best so you need to start building the pot. a second spade has appeared creating a 2nd flush draw to go with the now enhanced strait draw. you do need to charge these(not overly important), But more importantly you need to extract value from these hands before the cooler on the river. Another reason to bet the turn is that your hand is sufficiently concealed from your flop action so that you can reasonably be called by a weaker hand. As you played it you have to check the river. Your hand isnt very strong, Its only a bluff catcher and allowing yourself to get bluffed off the hand will lose you a massive amount of equity. sorry if i missed something mate and for grammar im 20xing on ftilt ss. EDIT* on river the only hand that pays you off is the case ace. even KK wont pay you off so forget about 2nd pair. also (more directed at tourny players)raising pf with AK is generally correct(+ev) but in deep cash checking bb here with ak is not only a good deceptive play but a play you MUST do from time to time, even against mediocre opponents. you said the players had seen you put in pot size raises attacking limpers earlier, did you show down any mediocre hands(suitcons or garbage pairs etc?) because if you have then raising pf is a clearly optimal play because you are concealed by your past actions.