I think I am really stupid

[robilaruk]

$55 ITM and the following hand arrives So did I play this like Kermit or a pro? Damo ***************************************** everyone has been fairly solid around the bubble and ITM this is about the 10th hand 3 handed, a few hands are raised and folded, but mainly just folds to the BB - the villian did this once before and showed QQ So what should I have done? cheers Damo Hand #253594584 at table: STT $50 NL Started: Sun Apr 02 19:26:42 2006 Limper is at seat 5 with 3955.00 Villian is at seat 7 with 11705.00 Hero is at seat 9 with 3440.00 Hero posts the large blind 600.00 Villian posts the small blind 300.00 Villian: --, -- Hero: Ks, Ac Limper: --, -- Pre-flop: Limper: Call 600.00 Villian: All in Hero: Fold

[guesswest]

Re: I think I am really stupid Well I'm not sure what he had, but with 3.5k chips to 600/300 blinds you should have been all in there. It looks like a buy to me anyway, especially if he's making a point of showing you QQ.

[Mr Intensity]

Re: I think I am really stupid You have to call surely. Only 2 hands to be worried about, even with KK you'd have a 30% chance of hitting the A, anything else and it's 50/50 at worst so you're probably ahead and have a good chance of having a dominant hand. With AK you want to be all in pre flop as you need to see 5 cards to have the best chance of hitting. With the amount of chips you have and a low M value you need to double through some time to win the tournament - are you going to get a better situation in the next 5-10 hands? No reason to fold IMO, strange question:\

[robilaruk]

Re: I think I am really stupid I didn't like the limper and after thinking about it, I folded because i thought he would call, heads up I would have bitten his hand off, but it just didn't 'look' right with a limp and shove Thanks GW Damo aka Kermit

Well I'm not sure what he had' date=' but with 3.5k chips to 600/300 blinds you should have been all in there. It looks like a buy to me anyway, especially if he's making a point of showing you QQ.[/quote']

[robilaruk]

Re: I think I am really stupid except as I said everyone had been solid from about 5 players to go - I am putting the villian on a premium PP at this point and as I said in my reply to GW, heads up I would call, but I guessed the limper would call after entering the pot Tho I can see your point of view, in hindsight I should have looked at what I had rather than what they might have:eyes :eyes :eyes Thanks Damo

You have to call surely. Only 2 hands to be worried about' date=' even with KK you'd have a 30% chance of hitting the A, anything else and it's 50/50 at worst so you're [i']probably ahead and have a good chance of having a dominant hand. With AK you want to be all in pre flop as you need to see 5 cards to have the best chance of hitting. With the amount of chips you have and a low M value you need to double through some time to win the tournament - are you going to get a better situation in the next 5-10 hands? No reason to fold IMO, strange question:\

[Mr Intensity]

Re: I think I am really stupid

except as I said everyone had been solid from about 5 players to go - I am putting the villian on a premium PP at this point and as I said in my reply to GW, heads up I would call, but I guessed the limper would call after entering the pot Tho I can see your point of view, in hindsight I should have looked at what I had rather than what they might have:eyes :eyes :eyes Thanks Damo

Oops:lol :lol I wasn't even considering the other guy calling. I think there's a big incentive for him to fold as you could be knocked out and he'd have to beat both of you to win th pot. So if he called it would probably be AA/KK/QQ/AK. Still think it's a definate all in.

[guesswest]

Re: I think I am really stupid And bear in mind the already very slim chance that he has AA/KK is considerably slimmer due to you having one of both....

[GaF]

Re: I think I am really stupid Sorry m8 - IMO had to be a call............

[Valiant23]

Re: I think I am really stupid Rightly or wrongly I've tried looking at last 3 in an STT in exactly the same way as Heads-up, which means (to me) really opening up and playing marginal hands, and being aggressive with good hands. 6 live cards and you have an A and K - surely even if you go into the hand behind to a pocket pair you have to play it.

[Pocket Lady]

Re: I think I am really stupid All in for me - sorry mate.

[Mr Intensity]

Re: I think I am really stupid This is looking pretty conclusive Damo:lol :lol

[guesswest]

Re: I think I am really stupid But just to say, although I don't think the fold was right here - certainly don't think you're 'stupid'! Laying a big hand is much more difficult and requires much more playing ability than calling with one, not to mention the fact that identifying the possibility that you misplayed a hand and submitting it for others to critique is also generally an indicator of a thoughtful player.

[eltrev]

Re: I think I am really stupid When I'm down to the final 3 in STTs, I start to get a lot more agressive given that I've already secured a good profit. As Mr V states, this is similar to HU play and I will always look to go all-in with any decent ace. I think our villian here is merely looking to dominate given the size of his stack and the level of blinds, knowing that even if he is called he'll still be there or thereabouts with his substantial chip lead. IMHO, I can see no reason to lay this down regardless of his previous plays. I used to do similar things in MTTs once I reached a final table and was more concerned about making my way up the prize ladder than trying to win it outright. You may have been blinkered by this and would rather wait for the limper to be knocked out, increasing your payout. As previously said, if you don't go all-in with AK when 3 handed, then you'll only end up all-in when your stack has been stripped by the blinds.

[robilaruk]

Re: I think I am really stupid interesting series of posts Normally I instacall here, but this time I took my time and thought about it, rather than seeing AK and going WOW! I put both players on pairs and believed that the limper would call the shove, as it turned out he didn't :eyes I didn't fancy the coinflip at this point, with the blinds so big and chips stacks big, I believed I could fold and still beat the chip leader even when he knocked the limper out with his AA-JJ vs limpers 66-22 and he would then have a 5:1 lead against me, alas I didn't get a chance to as the limper folded and limper called my shove 2 hands later and out drew my PP 99 with Q 10:eyes Really interesting that people think this is an instacall:ok cheers all Damo

[Pokerose]

Re: I think I am really stupid I don't think you're really stupid, just guilty of a little errr...overthink

[Masterplan]

Re: I think I am really stupid call for me too, 3 handed with a/k after a big stack shove after limp ...

[Tax_Monkey]

Re: I think I am really stupid Definate Call for me. I think Rosie hit the nail on head you "overthought" it. What place did you finish?

[stereoman]

Re: I think I am really stupid I think you played a little scared, that's all. I remember doing this four-handed when I was down to the final four in a early morning Betfred $200 freeroll thinking "I've just made a world class fold." when holding pocket queens when I raised, someone re-raised and then someone else went all-in. I thought "Fook this!" and folded expecting someone to have kings and someone to have AJo and not wanting toi be knocked out when an ace lands. One of 'em had A7o and the other had KJo. Flop came low and full of blanks and ace high won. Worst thing is, I would have been chipleader, knocked one of 'em out, crippled the other and leaving me with only one other to really think about when three-handed (I finished second for I think, $30. :eyes). ....happens to the best of us when we ahem, bottle it. Sometimes you have to take a coinflip. :\

[Doob]

Re: I think I am really stupid Stick them all in, the chip leader is bullying with Ace Rag probably but he has a massive range of hands here he is going all-in with. Maybe if there are 4 left you can make a case for folding here but you have to play these hands even with 2 all-ins before you I reckon. However you are still in the STT and you still have a chance to win so you are not a kermit at all.

[robilaruk]

Re: I think I am really stupid 3rd as per other post - and intersting you agreed with the overthink. I am more inclined to think about hands now rather than just go WOW etc - and interestingly my results in cash and STT's have improved, whereas my results in MTT's have crashed - is there a correlation?. I think ;) that too many people call/shove/raise wihout considering their opponents and what their moves actually mean. BTW I don't know what the shover had but the limper said "hmmmm have 44" and then folded, so I got at least one hand range correct Damo

Definate Call for me. I think Rosie hit the nail on head you "overthought" it. What place did you finish?

[robilaruk]

Re: I think I am really stupid nah not scared as I have the BR to cope with my buy-in, the difference between 3rd and 2nd isn't much, but is large between 3rd and 1st - I didn't fold hoping to limp into 2nd, bit in the belief that I was behind to both players holding pairs and that the limper would call - that bit I got wrong, tho not the fact he had a pair And I agree about the coinflip, when you need to, I didn't think at the time I needed to, in hindsight of course I did LOL cheers Damo

I think you played a little scared, that's all. ....happens to the best of us when we ahem, bottle it. Sometimes you have to take a coinflip. :\

[Valiant23]

Re: I think I am really stupid

And I agree about the coinflip, when you need to, I didn't think at the time I needed to, in hindsight of course I did LOL cheers Damo

Which is kind of what I was hinting at when I likened your situation to heads up mate. Without teaching you to suck eggs, you know how quickly a stack can diminish when antes are being paid 2 out of 3 hands, so really in that context surely you had to push?

[robilaruk]

Re: I think I am really stupid in hindsight yes - but I believed at the time that the limper would call the shove and I believed that he was way behind to a superior PP, which means he has to outdraw to stay in the game - which would leave me HU and 5:1 behind, where its easy to win with the blinds so big as it is a crapshoot - I believed that it would be better for me to fold in this crapshoot position (however it wasn't!) You could argue that at this point I should have called with 72o with the blinds so big and hope to hit cards to beat them both, because it is vitually the same proposition as AK (If i an right in thinking the big stack has a premium PP) I would actually have a better chance of winning with 72o rather than AK against his aces (if he had them) LOL I really didn't think I was anyway close to being ahead with my AK on this hand and I really did think that limper would call with his small PP and lose to the premium PP - which I why I folded, but I did want to know what others thought and whether people would call regardless of what I suspected the other 2 had - a very interesting response I think Cheers Damo

Which is kind of what I was hinting at when I likened your situation to heads up mate. Without teaching you to suck eggs' date=' you know how quickly a stack can diminish when antes are being paid 2 out of 3 hands, so really in that context surely you had to push?[/quote']