PAULM03 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Not happy about this at all. I deposited at spin palace for the $2000 added using my debit card, I wanted to withdraw the remainder of my balance after I'd played and it asked me to enter an alternative withdrawal method incase I couldn't be paid back to my debit card. So I set up a neteller account, although I thought it wouldn't matter as there'd me no problem withdrawing back to the card I deposited with right? WRONG! I get an e-mail this morning saying my funds have been paid to my neteller account, so not only am I going to have to wait a further 3-5 working days to get money I've waited nearly a week for already I'm going to be charged £2 for the priveledge.:@ Words can't describe just how pissed off I am about this, is it standard practice? If they can debit my card instantly why can't they credit it? I've a good mind to contact my bank about this and find out where I stand exactly. At least I can check if they've even tried to credit it back to my card, and I'm going to go fcuking spare if they haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. I have just experienced a similar thing on Absolute Poker... only worse!!! I waited 3 or 4 weeks for my withdrawal... to arrive on a check... delivered by a real live mailman!!!!! :loon :loon :loon :loon :loon :loon :loon :loon :loon :loon Is this the year 2006???? Or have I been fooled???? A MAILMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It certainly is a great mystery why sites can debit your card and not credit it instantly... :@ :@ :@ Let me know if you find out why, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULM03 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. Just got off the phone to 'customer service' and now I'm even madder. I explained the problem and he said 'If you deposited by Neteller you must withdraw to Neteller':wall So I explained the problem again, see if he listened this time. He just said he didn't know (surprise sur-fcuking-prise) why they hadn't refunded the money to my card and just babbled something about Visa, Mastercard and new banking legislation:unsure so I explained it wasn't Visa or Mastercard and asked what legislation he was talking about. errrrrrm, errrrm, it's the new legislation that's been in place for a while:unsure Then when I asked his name he would only give me his first name, so by now steam is coming from my ears and nostrils and I'm thoroughly wound-up, just wanting to know why if I can deposit by debit card instantly I can't withdraw to it instantly. The long and the short of it: Dean doesn't know and he doesn't care. Send them an e-mail and they'll see what they can do:@:@:@:@:@:@:@:@ That's it for me, once bitten-twice shy and all that. From now on I'm only dealing with the big UK based players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick mick Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. I think you'll find the problem is caused by the card issuers who are apparently trying to avoid money laundering. Even with Betfair I'm not allowed to withdraw on a card more than I've deposited. Other sites take this further and don't allow any withdrawals to cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2damnhype Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. Mick - isn't that just Credit cards though - I was under the impression with Betfair, that as long as you had made a deposit with the debit card that you are free to withdraw to it (for amounts over and above the deposit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6ooner Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. I've had problems too, with many sites. Goalpoker accepted all my card details but then made me call the US, which is not toll free from abroad and then requested two forms of id one of which must be a photo id. I declined and used netteller. Some sites don't like the fact I use a debit card issued in Jersey (which is or isn't UK depending on the site), Netteller refuses to let you deposit into more than one account on the same site (never heard of a joint account) and once you've used it you are tied to a particular account at a particular site and under no circumstances will they amend your details. :wall I think these problems could possibly use their own thread, especially with the advent of charges on cash transfers from certain credit cards to betting sites from May 1st:@ . It's going to be all too easy for these people to impose their own 'winnings tax':@ :@ :@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick mick Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. No, I only use debit cards and I can't withdraw on them more than I've deposited. I tend to wait till I've got a few hundred then withdraw it to neteller and transfer to my bank account and pay £1 charge. I find neteller a good way of moving money between different accounts ( to clear bonuses) and don't mind paying a quid when I want to withdraw my winnings. I've also got a neteller atm card which I haven't used yet so I don't know what the fee is for that but you can transfer money to your card and withdraw from any atm in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. Yeah im the same with Dream Poker, i made the $50 deposit to play in the fa cup games, and once id played the required hands, i tried to withdraw it...not a chance! Gotta be put in net teller account, they charge you commission on withdrawals, and then charge you a further $2 for a cheque to be sent out....lessening my winnings!! I will not be putting any money at all in any accounts from now on, only the UK ones that i know and trust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULM03 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. Yeah im the same with Dream Poker, i made the $50 deposit to play in the fa cup games, and once id played the required hands, i tried to withdraw it...not a chance! Gotta be put in net teller account, they charge you commission on withdrawals, and then charge you a further $2 for a cheque to be sent out....lessening my winnings!! I will not be putting any money at all in any accounts from now on, only the UK ones that i know and trust It's scandalous really. Does anyone know if the poker sites get commision from Neteller? They surely have a vested interest in making you withdraw theough them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. Yeah im the same with Dream Poker great... if I'd have known that there's no way I would have deposited with them last week either. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. It's scandalous really. Does anyone know if the poker sites get commision from Neteller? They surely have a vested interest in making you withdraw theough them? Sounds very much like it!!!! Disgusting, really.... :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. Betfair lets me withdraw more than I've deposited to my Maestro card....... Same with every other big poker site that takes it, except Paradise who offer Neteller or a cheque. I'm pretty sure sites don't get any money for refunding to your Neteller account tho, I think their banking systems are just badly organised. UK debit cards are unique in the ability to receive a refund of more than the purchase price (you can even refund to one without a purchase for a small processing fee) - so I think a lot of non-UK based sites just don't know how they work and probably don't much care. You can't refund gaming transactions at all with Mastercard, and only up to the purchase price with Visa, and even then not in a lot of countries including the US - so a lot of sites just stopped paying back to all cards as a generalised policy, figuring it had such limited use and was a lot of hassle - not realising that a policy like that is actually a big deal for UK players. Spin palace are primarily a casino site as opposed to a poker site, and an inability to receive debit card refunds coupled with generally crap and slow banking is an accepted norm in the world of casinos. The standard is so low with casinos as compared to poker rooms that players frequently consider a site to excel if they get paid at all, even if it's with a cheque that takes 3 weeks to arrive when it could have been refunded to your debit card in 24 hours. On that basis, spin palace have a pretty good reputation and if the customer service guy was used to dealing with casino enquiries he probably thought they were delivering outstanding service paying you so quickly and likely couldn't even understand why you'd be pissed off over such a trivial issue as not receving your payment to your preferred payment type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. great... if I'd have known that there's no way I would have deposited with them last week either. :( Sorry m8, i only deposited for the 1st time myself yesterday, id been playing with the free tenner they give ya originally, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULM03 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. >Spin palace are primarily a casino site as opposed to a poker site, and an inability to receive debit card refunds coupled with generally crap and slow banking is an accepted norm in the world of casinos. The standard is so low with casinos as compared to poker rooms that players frequently consider a site to excel if they get paid at all, even if it's with a cheque that takes 3 weeks to arrive when it could have been refunded to your debit card in 24 hours. On that basis, spin palace have a pretty good reputation and if the customer service guy was used to dealing with casino enquiries he probably thought they were delivering outstanding service paying you so quickly and likely couldn't even understand why you'd be pissed off over such a trivial issue as not receving your payment to your preferred payment type. I know this shouldn't really be funny, but for some reason that paragraph made me laugh. That's an unbelievable state of affairs! Now I'm even more convinced to just stick to the big UK players. Having to withdraw from Neteller really doesn't make it worthwhile for a casual low stakes player like myself to play at these sites, even if it means a bit of value does go begging now and again. One other thing though, on their banking interface it does specifically state that if you deposit by debit card they will credit back to that debit card. That's what's really got my back up about the whole thing, I somehow feel conned into having to use Neteller (which now appears as my preffered option and I can't work out how to change it). Surely they must be on commision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. I dunno, I could be wrong but I really don't get the sense that they're getting paid by Neteller for that. For one, I think a bigger deal would have been made of it before now, especially on the US forums. US players primarily use Neteller ,because of the Instacash function and because they can't use their bank/credit cards for gaming transactions. I've seen a lot of discussion on twoplustwo etc about Netellers fee schedule and never a suggestion of that. I also think the UK debit card functionality on SP is probably designed for £ casino accounts, so they quite likely don't know what to do with $ poker accounts. That and general incompetance with card refunds etc. I bet you everything I own vs a fiver if you call your bank they have no record of a refund attempt ;) Interesting banking sidenote. I called Webdollar the other day about a problem I was having with a withdrawal from Trio, and the woman I talked asked me if I was talking about my Sporting Odds account when I gave her my details. So looks like SO use Webdollar, but have their own interface thrown over the top of it, which explains why their withdrawals take forever to process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6ooner Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. US players primarily use Neteller ' date='because of the Instacash function and because they can't use their bank/credit cards for gaming transactions.[/quote'] What's the law in the US? I've heard that online gaming for the most is not strictly legal but that any winnings are taxable. Are the likes of Neteller, Paypal etc. ways of avoiding tax or keeping winnings in a state of limbo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedonist Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. I had trouble funding my Neteller account as they stopped accepting Mastercard, I tried to transfer money from my Betfair account but Betfair refused as I had not deposited via Neteller. I finally used Poker.com where I have never deposited but had built up money from freeroll and sit and go winnings, I transferred from them to Neteller with no problem except Neteller make a currency conversion charge. I then transferred some money to Betfair who took 1.5% from my deposit as a fee for using Neteller (they also charge 1.5% if you use a credit card, but no fee for debit cards) however for a promotional period they are refunding the 1.5% and I had it returned the following day. I withdrew some money from Betfair to Neteller with no problem or charges. I believe that all poker sites have to pay Neteller a small amount for every deposit but that the sites do not as a rule charge customers. I agree with 6ooner when he says 'I think these problems could possibly use their own thread,' There are some sites with a bad reputation and it would be helpful if we could check for known problems before making a deposit, I can say that Poker.com and Betfair allowed me to withdraw money with no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. What's the law in the US? I've heard that online gaming for the most is not strictly legal but that any winnings are taxable. Are the likes of Neteller' date=' Paypal etc. ways of avoiding tax or keeping winnings in a state of limbo?[/quote'] Nobody really knows is the answer. The laws are an absolute mess over there, each state has different (and sometimes internally contradictory laws) on the books, and there are some federal laws in place and nobody is sure whether state or federal laws take precedent in certain situations etc. Poker is generally (though not always) considered a game of skill as oppose to a form of gambling, so it's generally considered legal, but there are regional laws that prohibit it (tho it's still not clear if local laws apply to internet communications according to federal communication standards). In any event, what's probably more important is how payment providers have responded. Mastercard have withdrawn completely, Visa haven't but it's a majority of issuing banks now that prohibit their customers from using their cards for online gaming, apparently for legal reasons though more than likely avoiding chargebacks was an incentive. And Paypal also withdrew from online gaming in the US (and everywhere else, until very recently), and US debit cards are all Visa/Mastercard linked, or the few that aren't are only usable for point of sale transactions. At the time all that first happened Neteller was the only really viable solution for US consumers so everyone got a Neteller account, there's plenty more options now but Neteller still hold the lions share of gaming money. I don't think American consumers are using e-wallet solutions as a tax dodge or to avoid legal troubles, they're just doing it because it's the only option they have available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. The other issue is that some of these companies operate through 'obscure' regions such as the Netherland Antilles (where?), Antigua, that Canadian Indian Reserve (Chinawakee or similar) etc., which add more compications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. Kahnawake :D Along with Gibraltar (where Party among others operate from) it's considered a reputable jurisdiction. They're about the only two with really good regulations though. Antigua, Netherland Antilles (Betfair), Costa Rica, Belize etc - much dodgier. And that's all part of the struggle, the government is losing a lot of revenue because all these business are forced by US law to operate overseas, but at the same time the religious right fights every move to clarify online gaming legislation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6ooner Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. Thanks, much clearer. It also explains why I used to see $15 pokerstars accounts selling for $20 on ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philossify Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. Spin Palace did similar thing to me this week - having paid in $50 via my credit card (or was it my debit card? - wish their accounting systems were as clear cut as betfairs) and won some I decided to withdraw $200. Set it up (so I thought) to shove it out to my Neteller acccount and lo and behold they say they've paid it to my credit card. Means I'll have a positive amount I suspect on my next statement as a cock up by the car insurance firm put another credit on my card. :wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6ooner Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. I think they've manage to get around the problem of paying out:@ :@ It would appear my account has been suspended because I know someone else who plays on spin palace - Surely the credit card is proof we're different people- funny how they took themoney from us and they only decide we're Hungarian at 2:52 this morning (1:52 gmt) :@ :@ Dear 6ooner Spin Palace Poker takes pride in the security measures employed to protect all our players’ Poker account details and transactions. When we performed a routine security check, we noticed that your Poker account is linked to other customers' accounts - either by email address, physical address or telephone number. In such cases, fraud control rules require us to confirm the account details and investigate the reason for the linked details. We would appreciate it if you would forward us the following information as soon as possible. If you are aware that you have used someone else's details, e.g. address, telephone number, please explain your relationship to (Kuijfe) the person whose details you used. Full Name Residential Details Telephone Number Copy of a recent utility/telephone bill (as proof of residency) , not older than 3 months Copy of your Drivers License Failure to comply with this request will lead to the suspension of your online transaction account pspr00974299 Once these details have been received, we will ensure that you can access your transaction account. The information can be faxed to us using the fax details below: Our TOLL FREE FAX numbers are: USA: 1-800-266-1094 Canada: 1-866-385-9302 UK: 0-800-032-3126 Rest of world: +27-21-440-5155 If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. We have a toll free helpdesk with support agents waiting for your call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Kind Regards, Andrew Tracey Spin Palace Poker Manager ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SPIN PALACE POKER ROOM Play the Palace! ------------------------------------------------------------- S U P P O R T D E T A I L S: ------------------------------------------------------------- 24 hour Telephonic Support United States of America: 1-866-720-0095 Canada: 1-877-710-8016 United Kingdom: 0800-587-1474 Rest of the World:+44-800-587-1474 (charges may apply) ------------------------------------------------------------- Errors and Omissions Excepted ------------------------------------------------------------- {Ref. 11.6.0} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. First of all well done on your win, secondly don't panic. P-Lady and myself had this problem, I think I just rang them and explained the situation and they unlocked the accounts conditionally. The conditions are that you cannot sit down and play heads up OR STT's, but you can still register for the same MTT's. I was infuiated too when it happened to us, but once it was sorted I realised I should be glad to play on a site where they take security seriously. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. Like V says, definitely a good thing that they take security seriously, although I can appreciate it's annoying having to sort it out. Anyone ever got an email like that from SO? I'm guessing not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6ooner Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. I completely agree, it's good to know they're being vigilant but I also find it strange that this comes within an hour of a reasonable win, they have no problems accepting money at anytime but will try anything within their power to hold on to it. To be honest I've never really suffered too much before with online poker sites or betting sites but have faced it big time in casinos where I was once banned nationally (;) and probably officially still am - but it was a long time ago and time does seem to heal some wounds;) ) for winning too much too often. (not at poker though- obviously) They reserve the right to refuse, they're in charge and there's not a hell of a lot you can do about it. I'm not really too angry about it as I'm sure it will be resolved and I've got too many other things to worry about other than not being able to play on one site. I just thought it was a relevent post for this thread. The most annoying thing is that I've tried to call them and my telecom provider won't allow me to access international freephone numbers, the ROW number they've provided appears to be a fax and the US number is a recorded message in Spanish................it's just one of those days!:\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. To be honest I've never really suffered too much before with online poker sites or betting sites but have faced it big time in casinos where I was once banned nationally (;) and probably officially still am - but it was a long time ago and time does seem to heal some wounds;) ) for winning too much too often. I'm really curious to know which casino this was? :D I've been banned from a few, and had to thrash out a few withdrawals thru casinomeister etc - turns out they don't take kindly to advantage players. Poker sites are normally a different ball of wax because obviously you're taking money from other players as oppose to the house. I can't say what SP's motivations were but I personally doubt it's to withhold your money, I think that if it actually came down to blocking your account they'd probably pay out then block you afterwards from what i've read about them in various places. They probably just didn't notice the duplicate info until it came up on someones screen when they were processing your withdrawal, is my guess....tho certainly they should be organised enough that they'd notice sooner..... Still, seems like Spin palace are ranking pretty high on the hassle scale for various reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. Still, seems like Spin palace are ranking pretty high on the hassle scale for various reasons.In my original post I should have mentioned that it happened to us when using another PRIMA skin (Dream), nor was it in relation to any withdrawal. :$ What I should have pointed out that, according to the wording of the e-mail I think the 'duplication' issues were probably flagged by PRIMA not the individual site. This seems to be a prima-driven clampdown(?)/precaution, but I imagine your attempted withdrawal brought it to their attention. This also means any restrictions placed on you through SpinPalace will also apply to any prima skin (Laddies I'm not so sure about though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6ooner Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. Strange thing is I didn't try to withdraw, they sent it within an hour of the end of the tourney - I knew the withdrawal would be a pain in the neck so I was going to leave it until later. The casino thing was just a small group of us developing a system on (don't laugh) Roulette, which turned out to be quite profitable averaging around 5k a night. We spread it around a bit at different casinos and one beautiful night in Northampton ( I think it was called the Rubicon) we hit 20k - no problem, round of applause from all tha managers and dealers, it felt great. Then a week later, being as nieve as we were we went back to the same place and did 12k. Two days later the letters started arriving from all of the casinos I was a member of cancelling membership and banning me from the premesis. Any new ones I tried to get into as a guest I was eitherrefused entry or thrown out as soon as I tried playing Roulette. It took about five years before I got back in one. I still dabble occasionally but only on a small scale, UK casinos are just too busy to work any of the tables. Not too bad out in Belgium though:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Spin Palace withdrawal issues. The casino thing was just a small group of us developing a system on (don't laugh) Roulette' date=' which turned out to be quite profitable averaging around 5k a night. [/quote'] That system has to involve cheating if it's +EV :D There's no way to negate the house edge, just can't be.........or maybe I'm wrong.........what were you doing? I wanna knoooooow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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